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Author Topic: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced  (Read 3676 times)

BernardLanguillier

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New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« on: June 07, 2018, 05:31:44 AM »

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8807947291/canon-unveils-canon-ef-70-200mm-f2-8l-is-iii-usm-for-professional-photographers

Looks like improved coating is the only aspect tuned on the 70-200 f2.8. I find that surprising since, although the Canon is very good in absolute terms, Nikon has taken a significant lead on this most critical lens for pros with the E FL version.

I find it surprising also that they didn't move the zoom ring to the front. It takes a bit of getting used to, but there is no way I would go back to the zoom ring close to the body. It help tremendously with lens stability since the hand is much farther away from the body.

Overall, the feeling is very much one of least possible investment.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 05:50:57 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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Rado

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 09:12:08 AM »

I'm glad they didn't move the zoom ring to the front, it's a dumb idea. I almost never use manual focus on zoom lenses and I don't want to accidentally touch the focus ring while zooming and handling the lens. Also you might be the only person I know who thinks having the hand further away from the body is more stable.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 09:33:08 AM »

I'm glad they didn't move the zoom ring to the front, it's a dumb idea. I almost never use manual focus on zoom lenses and I don't want to accidentally touch the focus ring while zooming and handling the lens. Also you might be the only person I know who thinks having the hand further away from the body is more stable.

Accidentally touching the focusing ring hasnít happened to me once in hundreds of hours of usage but who knows, maybe some day. ;)

Well if you assume that your left hand is there to support the lens+bodyís tendency to rotate around your right hand, then simple physics will tell you that a longer distance will give you more leverage, meaning more stability. And actual usage confirms the theory.

But anyways, great if the current Canon design works for you.

Cheers,
Bernard

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 10:38:47 AM »

A few thoughts:

1. Sometimes a new coating goes a long way. Like the new blue-refingrent optics element in the 35 1.4L MKII that greatly reduces ghosting. Who knows?

2. I fail to see why Canon would change the location of the zoom and MF rings in a lens that has been a stable of pros.

3. The previous version was released in 2010, so it was bound to be upgraded.

chez

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 03:24:12 PM »

It looks like Canon is keeping the price of the upgraded the same making this new version $700 cheaper than the Nikon version. Thatís substantial.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 04:09:21 PM »

It looks like Canon is keeping the price of the upgraded the same making this new version $700 cheaper than the Nikon version. Thatís substantial.

True, but I thought Canon was aiming for the top spot in terms of lens performance? Wasnít this what L lenses were supposed to be about? Or are they now happy with the top spot in price/performance ratio?

This is probably the first time an update of such an essential lens isnít even trying to better its most significant rival that was released more than a year ago.

Iíll probably be called a Nikon fanboy again for writing this, but I find this a significant development in the history of the EOS mount, and in the history of DSLR lenses in general.

It doesnít mean Canon didnít have the ability to design a better lens of course, it means they decided not to.

My guess is that they couldnít afford to in a context where they are directing resources towards mirrorless. This comes on top of their decision to remain the only manufacturer not offering a stabilized version of their 24-70 f2.8 years after everybody else did. So the 2 lenses most used by working pros are now ďconfirmedĒ not to be a top priority for Canon.

They also decided 10 years ago that their sensors were ďgood enoughĒ and that video AF was the area to invest in. Weíve seen how that has worked for Sony.

What does that mean for the future of the EOS mount?

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 04:18:12 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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Alex Waugh

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 09:13:15 PM »

Iíll probably be called a Nikon fanboy again for writing this, but I find this a significant development in the history of the EOS mount, and in the history of DSLR lenses in general.
Cheers,
Bernard

You absolutely are a Nikon fanboy/shill but I like your content around here and it keeps discussions lively so power to you! They certainly are the most interesting camera company at the moment I'll give you that.

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chez

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 09:46:10 PM »

True, but I thought Canon was aiming for the top spot in terms of lens performance? Wasnít this what L lenses were supposed to be about? Or are they now happy with the top spot in price/performance ratio?

This is probably the first time an update of such an essential lens isnít even trying to better its most significant rival that was released more than a year ago.

Iíll probably be called a Nikon fanboy again for writing this, but I find this a significant development in the history of the EOS mount, and in the history of DSLR lenses in general.

It doesnít mean Canon didnít have the ability to design a better lens of course, it means they decided not to.

My guess is that they couldnít afford to in a context where they are directing resources towards mirrorless. This comes on top of their decision to remain the only manufacturer not offering a stabilized version of their 24-70 f2.8 years after everybody else did. So the 2 lenses most used by working pros are now ďconfirmedĒ not to be a top priority for Canon.

They also decided 10 years ago that their sensors were ďgood enoughĒ and that video AF was the area to invest in. Weíve seen how that has worked for Sony.

What does that mean for the future of the EOS mount?

Cheers,
Bernard

From a corporations viewpoint, the ďBESTĒ is the one that generates the most revenue and right now Canon is kicking Nikonís butt all over the place...and Sony is right on the heels of Nikonís butt.

Nuff said.
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NancyP

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »

A most useful improvement for pros would be in improving the range of the image stabilization another two stops. Beyond a certain point, better optical bench performance means squat to PJ and sports / action photographers. After all, they are shooting with 20ish MP 1DX II cameras.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2018, 11:35:27 PM »

From a corporations viewpoint, the ďBESTĒ is the one that generates the most revenue and right now Canon is kicking Nikonís butt all over the place...and Sony is right on the heels of Nikonís butt.

Indeed, but I donít think that this lens will contribute to the continuation of this trend.

In case you are using Canon FF DSLRs, what is your view about this announcement?

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 11:36:26 PM »

You absolutely are a Nikon fanboy/shill but I like your content around here and it keeps discussions lively so power to you! They certainly are the most interesting camera company at the moment I'll give you that.

He he he :)

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2018, 02:07:40 AM »

I think you are right Bernard about the 24 to 70 and the 70to 200 being the two lenses most used by working pros. However the pros I know are not as big users of very fast lenses as most people seem to think. A lot of pros take the f4 options as they are cheaper, lighter and commercially shallow depth of field is just not such a thing. The professional photographers under the most pressure financially in my neck of the woods are the most likely to use these fast lenses. By that I mean portrait and wedding photographers. This is where the cell phone has caused the most damage.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2018, 04:14:36 AM »

I think you are right Bernard about the 24 to 70 and the 70to 200 being the two lenses most used by working pros. However the pros I know are not as big users of very fast lenses as most people seem to think. A lot of pros take the f4 options as they are cheaper, lighter and commercially shallow depth of field is just not such a thing. The professional photographers under the most pressure financially in my neck of the woods are the most likely to use these fast lenses. By that I mean portrait and wedding photographers. This is where the cell phone has caused the most damage.

I believe that this is very geo specific. Here in Tokyo, leaving aside some young folks who just started maybe, the f2.8 version of these 2 lenses are in the bag of every pro, in press, wedding, sport,... and limited DoF is very frequently used as a creative tool. They haven't invented the word bokeh to shoot at f8. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2018, 05:05:37 AM »

I believe that this is very geo specific. Here in Tokyo, leaving aside some young folks who just started maybe, the f2.8 version of these 2 lenses are in the bag of every pro, in press, wedding, sport,... and limited DoF is very frequently used as a creative tool. They haven't invented the word bokeh to shoot at f8. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes. Press wedding and sport. All areas heavily impacted by the rise of cell phones. Most pros are not press wedding and sport. Itís not geo specific. Itís industry specific. What might be geo specific is how well or badly press wedding and sport is doing. Not at all well here. I wonít go near those areas of photography. I like to eat. Also if I choose not to purchase zooms with f2.8 doesnít mean I have to shoot at f8. I can also shoot at f4 or f5.6 or I can move to a prime lens which is faster than 2.8 anyway. Personally I think shooting so much wide open is not a creative tool, itís a boring formula.

One other thing. I own 15 lenses, donít consider myself a equipment person but thatís  what I need to survive and indulge my personal projects. Of the 15 lenses 10 are primes. All the primes have the focus ring at the end of the lens. When I pick up a zoom I want the focus ring to be in the same place on all lenses, at the end. I donít want to be having to remember that when I pick up a zoom that the focus in now moved to another place. I will be trying to focus and instead will have the zoom ring at hand. Awkward.



Another thing though about
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hogloff

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2018, 08:15:51 AM »

Indeed, but I donít think that this lens will contribute to the continuation of this trend.

In case you are using Canon FF DSLRs, what is your view about this announcement?

Cheers,
Bernard

Personally I haven't heard any Canon folk complain at all about the quality of images the current 70-200 2.8 produces. It's a surprise a new version is being released...guess we'll see what the new coatings does to the images.

At the levels these pro lenses are at, I think the only people who peep at any differences in image quality between the lenses are Internet fan boys. People who use these lenses just to make great images whether it be Canon, Nikon or Sony are all happy with the results.
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NancyP

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2018, 01:37:30 PM »

After reading more, I conclude that the main change in the f/2.8 v.3 is likely to be in manufacturing process improvements that benefit Canon's bottom line, and that they just threw in new coatings as an excuse to stop the older version's manufacture. My guess is that few current owners of v.2 lenses will bother to upgrade.

The f/4 v.2 does seem to have a big (2+ stops?) improvement in the IS system and better resolution at the edges than its predecessor. This does represent a big enough change that some current v.1 users may upgrade.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2018, 06:23:21 PM »

Personally I haven't heard any Canon folk complain at all about the quality of images the current 70-200 2.8 produces. It's a surprise a new version is being released...guess we'll see what the new coatings does to the images.

At the levels these pro lenses are at, I think the only people who peep at any differences in image quality between the lenses are Internet fan boys. People who use these lenses just to make great images whether it be Canon, Nikon or Sony are all happy with the results.

By that standard we would still be using the very same lenses we we were using 20 years ago.

Canon would not have released new T/S lenses, Nikon would not have released a new 180-400 f4,...

Sony would still be selling us a7r instead of a7r III,...

...the list is endless.

Another point of note is that many Canon users were happy about their 5D2 and 5D3. This hasnít prevented a major shift towards Sony from all the guys who werenít happy. Any way you look at it, not being able to match your competitorís performance on highly critical products has impacts.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 06:37:55 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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chez

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2018, 06:53:04 PM »

By that standard we would still be using the very same lenses we we were using 20 years ago.

Canon would not have released new T/S lenses, Nikon would not have released a new 180-400 f4,...

Sony would still be selling us a7r instead of a7r III,...

...the list is endless.

Another point of note is that many Canon users were happy about their 5D2 and 5D3. This hasnít prevented a major shift towards Sony from all the guys who werenít happy. Any way you look at it, not being able to match your competitorís performance on highly critical products has impacts.

Cheers,
Bernard

Well it seems like the marketing hypesters at Nikon have got you line hook and sinker. Theyíll continue to release new versions, make you feel inadequate with your current version...wash, rinse...repeat. Sometimes one just needs to get off the treadmill and enjoy your gear rather than always feeling inadequate.

Sort of like the dumb dog always trying to catch his own tail.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2018, 07:01:43 PM »

Not sure why you bother commenting on equipment quality if you consider that irrelevant?

Expecting a significant upgrade of a core lens every 10 years is vastly different from being caught in an irresistible upgrade cycle. By the time this lens gets upgraded next we will be using 200 mp sensors and many houses will be equipped with wall sized screens.

Feel free to retire in a cave and rejoy at the sight of shadows on your ceiling.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 07:11:08 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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NancyP

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Re: New Canon 70-200 lenses announced
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2018, 08:01:52 PM »

Bernard: Sometimes it can be nice to use technically imperfect lenses. Sometimes I use 50 year old manual lenses for the pleasing rendering: AIS Nikkors (50 f/1.2, 105 f/2.5), adapted to Canon. And sometimes people accept old lenses as "capable of doing the job" for the level of resolution that they need. I have a much-loved 7-element 400mm f/5.6L no-IS lens that I use for birding, especially freehand bird-in-flight work. I can afford it, the ergonomics are great (1.1 kg, well balanced for APS-C camera), and the image quality is excellent wide open. Yes, I could pay $10,000.00 more and have a better lens. But I am an amateur, and I have fun with the "toy lens" (bird photographer Art Morris' nickname for this Little White supertele lens).
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