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Author Topic: Thom's D850 review is out  (Read 22786 times)

DP

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 08:41:17 PM »

as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.

"Most notably, though, it's somewhat better at higher ISO values than the predecessor Sony sensors Nikon used, it can throw data off to the EXPEED processor much faster" = last time I checked 9fps of Nikons D850 is less data moved than 10fps of Sony A7R3 sensor (when Sony used the better cpu in A7R3)... so not even here... but Thom plays an ostrich referring to the old A7R2 (as if nobody sees)  ;D
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 08:47:04 PM by DP »
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armand

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 09:33:06 PM »

as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.

"Most notably, though, it's somewhat better at higher ISO values than the predecessor Sony sensors Nikon used, it can throw data off to the EXPEED processor much faster" = last time I checked 9fps of Nikons D850 is less data moved than 10fps of Sony A7R3 sensor (when Sony used the better cpu in A7R3)... so not even here... but Thom plays an ostrich referring to the old A7R2 (as if nobody sees)  ;D

And?

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 07:33:24 AM »

as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.

Frankly, having in depth experience with Nikon DSLRs, the color behavior of the D850 is very different from all the other Nikon based on Sony sensors.

The cameras I find the D850 closest to colorwize are the Leicas.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 07:39:10 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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DP

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 08:41:19 AM »

Frankly, having in depth experience with Nikon DSLRs, the color behavior of the D850 is very different from all the other Nikon based on Sony sensors.

because Nikon or Fuji can specify what CFA they want (not to mention that camera profiles are not supposed to be static) and nothing prevents Nikon to change the recipe (Sony A7S* is not exactly the same CFA as A7R* series for example)... you perfectly know that chip itself is colorblind w/o CFA...  BSI, mulitple ADCs, dual gain - that what makes a sensor plus how to put all this actually @ silicone wafer... what lays on top of the chip = CFA, microlenses, IR/UV/AA filters are whatever customer wants - if I dissolve CFA or replace IR filter - may I please claim that I designed a sensor ?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 08:47:14 AM by DP »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 11:26:40 PM »

Frankly, having in depth experience with Nikon DSLRs, the color behavior of the D850 is very different from all the other Nikon based on Sony sensors.

The cameras I find the D850 closest to colorwize are the Leicas.

Cheers,
Bernard

I also have experience with Nikon DSLRs, at least back to the D1X and Coolpix before that. I like the color of the D850 much better than what came before.
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Michael Erlewine
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 04:56:56 AM »

as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.

"Most notably, though, it's somewhat better at higher ISO values than the predecessor Sony sensors Nikon used, it can throw data off to the EXPEED processor much faster" = last time I checked 9fps of Nikons D850 is less data moved than 10fps of Sony A7R3 sensor (when Sony used the better cpu in A7R3)... so not even here... but Thom plays an ostrich referring to the old A7R2 (as if nobody sees)  ;D

The sensor is TowerJazz isn't it?
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davidgp

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 10:12:06 AM »

The sensor is TowerJazz isn't it?

There is some people saying that, but nothing is confirm. Nikon is not saying the name of the provider. So, unless chipworks (techinsights now) puts the sensor under their X-Ray machines like in the case of the D5 and D500: http://techinsights.com/reports-and-subscriptions/open-market-reports/Report-Profile/?ReportKey=DEF-1609-802 , fanboys from both sides will debate the origin until the world ends.


http://dgpfotografia.com

Bo_Dez

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 12:53:38 PM »

There is some people saying that, but nothing is confirm. Nikon is not saying the name of the provider. So, unless chipworks (techinsights now) puts the sensor under their X-Ray machines like in the case of the D5 and D500: http://techinsights.com/reports-and-subscriptions/open-market-reports/Report-Profile/?ReportKey=DEF-1609-802 , fanboys from both sides will debate the origin until the world ends.


http://dgpfotografia.com

Well I guess some people care. I'm not one of them!  ;D
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davidgp

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 01:44:20 PM »

Well I guess some people care. I'm not one of them!  ;D

Shame on you!!! you should spend countless sleepless nights thinking about it!!!  ;) ;) ;)

If it is TowerJazz, good... a new player in dslr/mirrorless market, more competition, it is always good. If not, well, business as usual.

RobertJ

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2018, 09:02:05 AM »

I'm no scientist (like some of you guys are), and I'm no expert in who makes what sensor, but as a Sony user, looking at a lot of D850 RAW files from the web in Capture One Pro, I can say that the way the detail is rendered, and the way the grain and noise structure appears, it doesn't look anything like a Sony sensor.

The files from the D850 are some of the best files I've ever seen out of anything, including MFD.  So if it's TowerJazz (kind of a silly name, eh?) then wow, good job to them, and good job to Nikon for squeezing out the detail from it.
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WIFoto

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2018, 10:12:04 PM »

Hi,
A number of you have commented on how much you like the color output from the Nikon D850. I find this very, very interesting. Would you please tell me if you see the nice color in JPEG and or RAW?

If you see the improved color with RAW processing, which software program(s) do you use to get the good results?

Thanks in advance,
Paul
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2018, 10:31:27 PM »

Hi,
A number of you have commented on how much you like the color output from the Nikon D850. I find this very, very interesting. Would you please tell me if you see the nice color in JPEG and or RAW?

If you see the improved color with RAW processing, which software program(s) do you use to get the good results?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

raw, Photoshop, ACR
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Michael Erlewine
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2018, 11:47:31 PM »

Raw, C1 Pro 11.

Cheers,
Bernard

opgr

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 08:19:05 AM »

I'm no scientist (like some of you guys are), and I'm no expert in who makes what sensor, but as a Sony user, looking at a lot of D850 RAW files from the web in Capture One Pro, I can say that the way the detail is rendered, and the way the grain and noise structure appears, it doesn't look anything like a Sony sensor.

The files from the D850 are some of the best files I've ever seen out of anything, including MFD.  So if it's TowerJazz (kind of a silly name, eh?) then wow, good job to them, and good job to Nikon for squeezing out the detail from it.

I agree totally, that is: i haven't even checked the raw files, but some of the images we've been presented just show very deep, stable color and very good microcontrast. One thing i noticed with the Sony sensors is an apparent limited bitdepth in color. If you stack a lot of captures, the channels tend to posterise. Something that evidently has been a problem with the original A7 raw files, even without stacking, though this was originally attributed to the raw compression.
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WIFoto

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 07:31:29 AM »

Thank you all for the feedback on the D850 color.
Paul
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2018, 08:39:31 AM »

I also enjoy the colours on the D850. In addition I like the LCD and the fully electronic shutter which is great for the way I'm shooting.

DougDolde

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2018, 08:12:59 PM »

Yes the D850 is amazing.. I sold of my Phase One XF/IQ180 kit for it. In every regard except resolution, the Nikon is superior. High ISO, low light capability, Live View focus peaking, there's no comparison. No longer is medium format necessary for most people
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2018, 09:07:33 PM »

Yes the D850 is amazing.. I sold of my Phase One XF/IQ180 kit for it. In every regard except resolution, the Nikon is superior. High ISO, low light capability, Live View focus peaking, there's no comparison. No longer is medium format necessary for most people

I feel the same way. As for resolution, I believe I make up for it with very fine APO lenses like the Zeiss Otus series and others.

I had (and sold) the Pentax K3 and K1, the Hasselblad X1D, the Fuji GFX and the Sony A7R2 and A7R3. None of them came close to the quality of the Nikon D850, when all things are considered... as an all around camera. I like the other cameras in this way or that, but using the D850 is just better, IMO. I had to send my D850 in for repair due to something I did to it (the dreaded "user error") and reverted to my D810, but was shocked at how much I missed the D850. So, I agree with you totally.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 09:14:04 PM by Michael Erlewine »
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Michael Erlewine
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DougDolde

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Re: Thom's D850 review is out
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 09:48:37 PM »

I'm using three Zeiss ZF.2 lenses,,,  21mm, 28mm and 85mm.  Future lenses Zeiss 15mm and 135mm
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