Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on March 06, 2018, 07:57:25 pm
-
http://dslrbodies.com/cameras/current-nikon-dslr-reviews/nikon-d850-camera-review.html
Cheers,
Bernard
-
as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.
"Most notably, though, it's somewhat better at higher ISO values than the predecessor Sony sensors Nikon used, it can throw data off to the EXPEED processor much faster" = last time I checked 9fps of Nikons D850 is less data moved than 10fps of Sony A7R3 sensor (when Sony used the better cpu in A7R3)... so not even here... but Thom plays an ostrich referring to the old A7R2 (as if nobody sees) ;D
-
as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.
"Most notably, though, it's somewhat better at higher ISO values than the predecessor Sony sensors Nikon used, it can throw data off to the EXPEED processor much faster" = last time I checked 9fps of Nikons D850 is less data moved than 10fps of Sony A7R3 sensor (when Sony used the better cpu in A7R3)... so not even here... but Thom plays an ostrich referring to the old A7R2 (as if nobody sees) ;D
And?
-
as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.
Frankly, having in depth experience with Nikon DSLRs, the color behavior of the D850 is very different from all the other Nikon based on Sony sensors.
The cameras I find the D850 closest to colorwize are the Leicas.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Frankly, having in depth experience with Nikon DSLRs, the color behavior of the D850 is very different from all the other Nikon based on Sony sensors.
because Nikon or Fuji can specify what CFA they want (not to mention that camera profiles are not supposed to be static) and nothing prevents Nikon to change the recipe (Sony A7S* is not exactly the same CFA as A7R* series for example)... you perfectly know that chip itself is colorblind w/o CFA... BSI, mulitple ADCs, dual gain - that what makes a sensor plus how to put all this actually @ silicone wafer... what lays on top of the chip = CFA, microlenses, IR/UV/AA filters are whatever customer wants - if I dissolve CFA or replace IR filter - may I please claim that I designed a sensor ?
-
Frankly, having in depth experience with Nikon DSLRs, the color behavior of the D850 is very different from all the other Nikon based on Sony sensors.
The cameras I find the D850 closest to colorwize are the Leicas.
Cheers,
Bernard
I also have experience with Nikon DSLRs, at least back to the D1X and Coolpix before that. I like the color of the D850 much better than what came before.
-
as usual Thom can't admit in plain English that sensor is by Sony Semi using their BSI "Exmor R" design/implentation of Aptina's dual gain architecture and Nikon only paid Sony (the proper word in English will be specified) to make it 45mp for them exclusively ;D ... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck... just like D500's sensor.
"Most notably, though, it's somewhat better at higher ISO values than the predecessor Sony sensors Nikon used, it can throw data off to the EXPEED processor much faster" = last time I checked 9fps of Nikons D850 is less data moved than 10fps of Sony A7R3 sensor (when Sony used the better cpu in A7R3)... so not even here... but Thom plays an ostrich referring to the old A7R2 (as if nobody sees) ;D
The sensor is TowerJazz isn't it?
-
The sensor is TowerJazz isn't it?
There is some people saying that, but nothing is confirm. Nikon is not saying the name of the provider. So, unless chipworks (techinsights now) puts the sensor under their X-Ray machines like in the case of the D5 and D500: http://techinsights.com/reports-and-subscriptions/open-market-reports/Report-Profile/?ReportKey=DEF-1609-802 , fanboys from both sides will debate the origin until the world ends.
http://dgpfotografia.com
-
There is some people saying that, but nothing is confirm. Nikon is not saying the name of the provider. So, unless chipworks (techinsights now) puts the sensor under their X-Ray machines like in the case of the D5 and D500: http://techinsights.com/reports-and-subscriptions/open-market-reports/Report-Profile/?ReportKey=DEF-1609-802 , fanboys from both sides will debate the origin until the world ends.
http://dgpfotografia.com
Well I guess some people care. I'm not one of them! ;D
-
Well I guess some people care. I'm not one of them! ;D
Shame on you!!! you should spend countless sleepless nights thinking about it!!! ;) ;) ;)
If it is TowerJazz, good... a new player in dslr/mirrorless market, more competition, it is always good. If not, well, business as usual.
-
I'm no scientist (like some of you guys are), and I'm no expert in who makes what sensor, but as a Sony user, looking at a lot of D850 RAW files from the web in Capture One Pro, I can say that the way the detail is rendered, and the way the grain and noise structure appears, it doesn't look anything like a Sony sensor.
The files from the D850 are some of the best files I've ever seen out of anything, including MFD. So if it's TowerJazz (kind of a silly name, eh?) then wow, good job to them, and good job to Nikon for squeezing out the detail from it.
-
Hi,
A number of you have commented on how much you like the color output from the Nikon D850. I find this very, very interesting. Would you please tell me if you see the nice color in JPEG and or RAW?
If you see the improved color with RAW processing, which software program(s) do you use to get the good results?
Thanks in advance,
Paul
-
Hi,
A number of you have commented on how much you like the color output from the Nikon D850. I find this very, very interesting. Would you please tell me if you see the nice color in JPEG and or RAW?
If you see the improved color with RAW processing, which software program(s) do you use to get the good results?
Thanks in advance,
Paul
raw, Photoshop, ACR
-
Raw, C1 Pro 11.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
I'm no scientist (like some of you guys are), and I'm no expert in who makes what sensor, but as a Sony user, looking at a lot of D850 RAW files from the web in Capture One Pro, I can say that the way the detail is rendered, and the way the grain and noise structure appears, it doesn't look anything like a Sony sensor.
The files from the D850 are some of the best files I've ever seen out of anything, including MFD. So if it's TowerJazz (kind of a silly name, eh?) then wow, good job to them, and good job to Nikon for squeezing out the detail from it.
I agree totally, that is: i haven't even checked the raw files, but some of the images we've been presented just show very deep, stable color and very good microcontrast. One thing i noticed with the Sony sensors is an apparent limited bitdepth in color. If you stack a lot of captures, the channels tend to posterise. Something that evidently has been a problem with the original A7 raw files, even without stacking, though this was originally attributed to the raw compression.
-
Thank you all for the feedback on the D850 color.
Paul
-
I also enjoy the colours on the D850. In addition I like the LCD and the fully electronic shutter which is great for the way I'm shooting.
-
Yes the D850 is amazing.. I sold of my Phase One XF/IQ180 kit for it. In every regard except resolution, the Nikon is superior. High ISO, low light capability, Live View focus peaking, there's no comparison. No longer is medium format necessary for most people
-
Yes the D850 is amazing.. I sold of my Phase One XF/IQ180 kit for it. In every regard except resolution, the Nikon is superior. High ISO, low light capability, Live View focus peaking, there's no comparison. No longer is medium format necessary for most people
I feel the same way. As for resolution, I believe I make up for it with very fine APO lenses like the Zeiss Otus series and others.
I had (and sold) the Pentax K3 and K1, the Hasselblad X1D, the Fuji GFX and the Sony A7R2 and A7R3. None of them came close to the quality of the Nikon D850, when all things are considered... as an all around camera. I like the other cameras in this way or that, but using the D850 is just better, IMO. I had to send my D850 in for repair due to something I did to it (the dreaded "user error") and reverted to my D810, but was shocked at how much I missed the D850. So, I agree with you totally.
-
I'm using three Zeiss ZF.2 lenses,,, 21mm, 28mm and 85mm. Future lenses Zeiss 15mm and 135mm
-
I'd like to see that. Some examples of the different 'colors' showing images from the D850 and D810. Maybe compared to the D750 as well. And then, as Bernard says it's reminding him, looks like 'Leica' color, some images where the d850 and a leica body/lens combo looks like the d850.
Perhaps it's a fools errand, but I just looked at several nikon examples at the dpreview site. Played with their studio scene. Color from the D850, D810, and D750 look identical to me. I'm not sure how much faith to place in their 'color' images. I trust you guys, here, more.
Can anyone show us/me examples of the color differences you're talking about, please...
short ps...looking again, the D750 reds, blues, greens look slightly darker than d850 or d810...the leica M10 samples seem someplace between the d750 and the D850...these at iso 100 and iso 200...
-
Can anyone show us/me examples of the color differences you're talking about, please...
Not sure how easy that is because my point is that when I take a color image from the D850 and bring it into Photoshop or Lightroom for further development, there is (for me and in the work I do) FAR LESS to do than with the D810. I just had this brought home to my when I broke (user error) the mirror in my D850 and had to send it away for quite a time (lack of parts at the Nikon repair facility) and was forced to use the D810 for some months. Ouch. I found out quickly that the difference is (to me) very clear. Perhaps part of it is the increased pixel count of the D850, but I don't think so.
But since my finished photos, either with the D810 or D850 look similar, because I make them look "right" to me, there is not much to show. And, right now, I have little time for such tests. Perhaps others will have the time to show and comment on raw images, untouched, from each camera. Or, you could take our word. LOL.
-
Not sure how easy that is because my point is that when I take a color image from the D850 and bring it into Photoshop or Lightroom for further development, there is (for me and in the work I do) FAR LESS to do than with the D810. I just had this brought home to my when I broke (user error) the mirror in my D850 and had to send it away for quite a time (lack of parts at the Nikon repair facility) and was forced to use the D810 for some months. Ouch. I found out quickly that the difference is (to me) very clear. Perhaps part of it is the increased pixel count of the D850, but I don't think so.
But since my finished photos, either with the D810 or D850 look similar, because I make them look "right" to me, there is not much to show. And, right now, I have little time for such tests. Perhaps others will have the time to show and comment on raw images, untouched, from each camera. Or, you could take our word. LOL.
this makes sense, and i take your word...thanks Michael...
-
Got out and used my d850 for the first time last night
Very very very impressive and a surprisingly big upgrade from the d810.
-
The only 3 Nikon bodies I currently own are the D850, D5 and D3400 (for kap), sorry I won’t be able to compare to the D810/D750.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
The only 3 Nikon bodies I currently own are the D850, D5 and D3400 (for kap), sorry I won’t be able to compare to the D810/D750.
Cheers,
Bernard
It's ok. I just thought color is so subjective that it's hard to nail down. And these days, processing software is so good you can duplicate 'almost' anything. For color or black & white, processing images, what a great time...
Also. I rented a Leica Q from lensrentals for a week December 2017. Did a number of seascapes at Miami Beach. Base iso. I really liked the color, detail of the files. Didn't like so much how the body felt in hand, the weight, felt like a bulky dslr that way to me. And I didn't have it long enough, but the way it worked, buttons/dials, felt really awkward. Thought it would be more straightforward.
Also. Have always felt the files from my D700 were 'different' in a good way compared to the D750 files. I rented a D750 for a bit summer 2015. The d700 files up to 3200 iso always had this rich color I find I like. And pushing the files around was easy. Same for converting to black and white. Perhaps some of that has to do with the lenses used as well. Older af-d lenses. Some ai-s manual focus as well.
For weight and size I did like the D750, but it's numerous recalls for shutter problems always put me off it. It's still about 1750 euros here at the local camera shop.
Now. Intrigued by the D850, but with age and health issues waiting to see what Nikon does with mirrorless. Smaller, lighter bodies.
The last 2 to 3 years my 'main' cameras have been the ricoh gr/grll and olympus omd body and lenses...a whole other ball of wax colorwise. Surprisingly good, the GR, and I bought the additional lens so I have 28mm and 21mm covered for street and landscape work. Just more reasons why the color remarks about the nikon/leica cameras intrigue me.
thanks
m
-
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/796/40297659064_e6026e157c_h.jpg)
Another example of those wonderful D850 colors.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
There is some people saying that, but nothing is confirm. Nikon is not saying the name of the provider. So, unless chipworks (techinsights now) puts the sensor under their X-Ray machines like in the case of the D5 and D500: http://techinsights.com/reports-and-subscriptions/open-market-reports/Report-Profile/?ReportKey=DEF-1609-802 , fanboys from both sides will debate the origin until the world ends.
Looks like at the end the sensor is still made by Sony: https://nikonrumors.com/2018/06/15/new-reports-indicate-that-the-nikon-d850-sensor-imx309aqj-is-made-by-sony.aspx/
-
I feel the same way. As for resolution, I believe I make up for it with very fine APO lenses like the Zeiss Otus series and others.
I had (and sold) the Pentax K3 and K1, the Hasselblad X1D, the Fuji GFX and the Sony A7R2 and A7R3. None of them came close to the quality of the Nikon D850, when all things are considered... as an all around camera. I like the other cameras in this way or that, but using the D850 is just better, IMO. I had to send my D850 in for repair due to something I did to it (the dreaded "user error") and reverted to my D810, but was shocked at how much I missed the D850. So, I agree with you totally.
Same here. Former ex-Phase One shooter, now blown away by my D850 with Sigma Art Lenses.