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Author Topic: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held  (Read 3761 times)

Neil Williams

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Below are some pictures of a friend of mine Shirlene. We shot them at the Thien Hoi Temple in Kuala Lumpur. I was using my H6D100c with one Profoto B1 head and an Octibox. Camera settings were Aperture priority ISO64 and most were shot at 1/250 ish. The files looked okay on the LCD but at home on the computer they were mainly soft from either to slow a shutter speed, camera shake or a combination of both. On another forum I got some great advice on changing the delay of the shutter/mirror up to 100ms rather than 50ms (I haven't tried it yet) but plan to after CNY. The other advise was to bump the ISO to 200 to get the shutter speed up (I wish there was an auto ISO setting on this camera) and use a mono pod or tripod.......I was really hoping that I could get away without using a support

Anyway below are a few pictures of Shirlene that were all shot hand held and very little PP done in Phocus

Neil


BobShaw

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 06:32:54 PM »

Why were you shooting Av? Manual with flash is what I always use. Why not use a higher shutter speed? That is the beauty of medium format and leaf shutters.
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Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 07:03:10 PM »

Why were you shooting Av? Manual with flash is what I always use. Why not use a higher shutter speed? That is the beauty of medium format and leaf shutters.
Hi Bob
Please can you elaborate on what you do? I'm not a complete knob when it comes to taking pictures, but sometimes just need a bit of guidance
Cheers mate

Neil

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 11:59:55 PM »

Indeed, you probably have less than 10mp worth of resolution here, most probably as a result of missed focus... ;)

Since nothing seems to be moving, I would use a tripod and live view for these kind of images, this is what I do with the blad in the studio if the point of focus is away from the center.

Even a monopod can help a lot.

But the reality is that a D850 with a 105mm f1.4 is a better tool for such images IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard

SrMi

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 01:39:33 AM »

Indeed, you probably have less than 10mp worth of resolution here, most probably as a result of missed focus... ;)

Since nothing seems to be moving, I would use a tripod and live view for these kind of images, this is what I do with the blad in the studio if the point of focus is away from the center.

Even a monopod can help a lot.

But the reality is that a D850 with a 105mm f1.4 is a better tool for such images IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard

I do not think that tripod makes sense for this kind of shots, as the photographer is supposed to be moving a lot and so does the model. IMO, for this kind of shots (model, special lighting), H6D is a better tool than D850.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 02:19:28 AM »

Hey Neil,

What focal lengths were you working with? I tend to do better in the 1/500th or faster  - the high MP will tell when you don't nail it.  Are you using TrueFocus or standard AF? Does your technique have you more prone supporting the camera, or are your elbows getting payback for some unknown activity?

-Joe
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 03:49:59 AM »

Hi,

I think the soul of these pictures is natural light. You can of course set artifical light, but it may not mix well with existing light.

Shooting tripod is a no brainer. You can raise the ISO, the sensor in the H6DC100 allows for high ISOs.

It is hard to know if the images are out of focus or if it is camera. If you can observe issues with an image at "web size" it means that there are serious problems.

Bernard is right. A camera with movable AF-points and image stabilization is advantageous in handheld shooting situations.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Bob
Please can you elaborate on what you do? I'm not a complete knob when it comes to taking pictures, but sometimes just need a bit of guidance
Cheers mate

Neil
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Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 04:59:18 AM »

Hey Neil,

What focal lengths were you working with? I tend to do better in the 1/500th or faster  - the high MP will tell when you don't nail it.  Are you using TrueFocus or standard AF? Does your technique have you more prone supporting the camera, or are your elbows getting payback for some unknown activity?

-Joe
Joe
I am using mainly HC100 f2.2 and HC150n, yes I am using true focus but it sometimes just takes a few extra second to give me the locked on sound........ive even got the models listing for the beep :) :)
I feel I can hold the camera no problem so next time out I will either use more light or just shoot a couple of hours later when there is more light about.

Neil

Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 05:46:47 AM »


It is hard to know if the images are out of focus or if it is camera. If you can observe issues with an image at "web size" it means that there are serious problems.


Erik
Here are three images shot with my HC150n at 3.2 5.6 a f8
I dont think I have a camera issue I think its an execution method that is the problem and I will work on that to get it fixed.

Neil


BernardLanguillier

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 08:21:13 AM »

H6D is a better tool than D850.

I own both. ;)

And although I love the image quality of the H6D-100c and feel it is the best MF digital camera on the market... I still feel that the D850 is a superior tool in some shooting situations, namely when things move (you and/or your subject).

Cheers,
Bernard

tcdeveau

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 10:22:45 AM »

Having shot with Nikons, Fujis, Hassy H, Pentax 645z, and X1D for portrait work, I tend to agree with Erik K that any camera with movable AF points advantageous with this kind of work.  Of course YMMV, but movable AF points with the X1D has increased my hit rate considerably over the H series when doing handheld portraits...not quite to Nikon level accuracy but waaaaay better than it ever was with the H and true focus. 
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SrMi

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 04:50:19 PM »

I own both. ;)

And although I love the image quality of the H6D-100c and feel it is the best MF digital camera on the market... I still feel that the D850 is a superior tool in some shooting situations, namely when things move (you and/or your subject).

Cheers,
Bernard

I own both as well, as well as X1D, Sony a7rII, Leica SL, m43 etc. I find D850 to be the most flexible of all my cameras. However, because of the great OVF and the file quality, I try to use H6D-100c as much as I can. Hasselblad's True Focus was designed exactly for the kind of situation that OP describes: handheld, plenty of light.

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BobShaw

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 04:54:58 PM »

Hi Bob
Please can you elaborate on what you do? I'm not a complete knob when it comes to taking pictures, but sometimes just need a bit of guidance
Cheers mate
Neil
I was trying to find out what you were trying to do. I still don't know, sorry.
Were you trying to balance flash light on the subject with ambient light on the background? It doesn't seem so as the light on the subject and background seems to be the same judging by the light on her shoulder and the balloons both coming from camera right.
Were you trying to just give a catchlight in the eyes? Again it does not seem so.
Av gives you little or no control over the shutter speed.
I use M and just adjust the exposure for the background to give what I want there and then adjust the flash power for the subject.
You mention that the model is waiting for the TF beep. Why is that a concern for the model? Focus is for the photographer to fix. The Tf indicator is shown in the viewfinder. The model should hold until the flash fires. Maybe she moved between?
The focus is difficult to see on a small jpeg but it seems to be on the fan and not the eyes. True Focus only works for rotation movement. If the camera is moved back or forwards it doesn't work.
Good luck.
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Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 05:31:39 PM »

I was trying to find out what you were trying to do. I still don't know, sorry.
Were you trying to balance flash light on the subject with ambient light on the background? It doesn't seem so as the light on the subject and background seems to be the same judging by the light on her shoulder and the balloons both coming from camera right.
Were you trying to just give a catchlight in the eyes? Again it does not seem so.
Av gives you little or no control over the shutter speed.
I use M and just adjust the exposure for the background to give what I want there and then adjust the flash power for the subject.
You mention that the model is waiting for the TF beep. Why is that a concern for the model? Focus is for the photographer to fix. The Tf indicator is shown in the viewfinder. The model should hold until the flash fires. Maybe she moved between?
The focus is difficult to see on a small jpeg but it seems to be on the fan and not the eyes. True Focus only works for rotation movement. If the camera is moved back or forwards it doesn't work.
Good luck.
Hello Bob, thanks for the feedback
Initially I tried using manual and use the pop up flash for fill light, but I just couldn't for the life of me manage to balance the flash and ambient light. I then went and got the profoto B1 head and decided on 1/125 at f5.6 but that just seemed to have the background to dark and the model blasted with light. By that time we moved to another location in the temple that was now getting more sunlight, so I gave up on the flash and tried shooting wide open at ISO100 and getting anything from 1/125 to 1/500. The light improved considerably but I forgot to put the ISO back down to 64.
So all in all I arrived at the temple with a model but without a plan of how to shoot her........joke really
The idea behind getting the model to listen for the true focus beep was that it was taking up to 5 seconds to get the TF and as models like to pose then pose again and again, I told her that when she hears the beep to then hold her pose.......I thought that was working okay.
I will be trying again on Monday with another model and this time it will be in manual at f4+ with 1/500 minimum shutter and like you said light the model up with flash
Full size JPGS can be seen HERE

Once again thanks for the feedback and tips on how to try and get this right

Neil

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 07:52:31 PM »

Hello Neil,

I think that you can use 800-1600 ISO on that camera. You probably need something like 1/(3X focal length) for really sharp images.

Best regards
Erik


Hello Bob, thanks for the feedback
Initially I tried using manual and use the pop up flash for fill light, but I just couldn't for the life of me manage to balance the flash and ambient light. I then went and got the profoto B1 head and decided on 1/125 at f5.6 but that just seemed to have the background to dark and the model blasted with light. By that time we moved to another location in the temple that was now getting more sunlight, so I gave up on the flash and tried shooting wide open at ISO100 and getting anything from 1/125 to 1/500. The light improved considerably but I forgot to put the ISO back down to 64.
So all in all I arrived at the temple with a model but without a plan of how to shoot her........joke really
The idea behind getting the model to listen for the true focus beep was that it was taking up to 5 seconds to get the TF and as models like to pose then pose again and again, I told her that when she hears the beep to then hold her pose.......I thought that was working okay.
I will be trying again on Monday with another model and this time it will be in manual at f4+ with 1/500 minimum shutter and like you said light the model up with flash
Full size JPGS can be seen HERE

Once again thanks for the feedback and tips on how to try and get this right

Neil
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Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 08:00:12 PM »

Hello Neil,

I think that you can use 800-1600 ISO on that camera. You probably need something like 1/(3X focal length) for really sharp images.

Best regards
Erik
Im trying to find a model for today so that I can go out and practice

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 08:20:47 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV97sZJLVCA

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324625-REG/sekonic_401_858_l_858d_u_speedmaster_light_meter.html

But IMHO your sharpness problem is not the result of improper shutter speed, it is an AF issue.

Cheers,
Bernard

Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 08:48:25 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV97sZJLVCA

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324625-REG/sekonic_401_858_l_858d_u_speedmaster_light_meter.html

But IMHO your sharpness problem is not the result of improper shutter speed, it is an AF issue.

Cheers,
Bernard
AF Issue with what.........I have already produced sharp images with my camera and lenses so I'm confused at what your saying now
Here is a picture of my granddaughters eye at 200% out of camera


Neil

Neil Williams

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 08:53:09 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV97sZJLVCA

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324625-REG/sekonic_401_858_l_858d_u_speedmaster_light_meter.html

But IMHO your sharpness problem is not the result of improper shutter speed, it is an AF issue.

Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard I have the sekonic DR758 or something like that. Unfortunately its in Phuket and I'm in KL. I do have and will use my old Sekonic L308s which is more than capable of reading flash output for my next shoot
Thanks again for the help and feedback

Neil

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Struggled a bit shooting these H6D100c shots of Shirlene hand held
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 09:31:49 PM »

AF Issue with what.........I have already produced sharp images with my camera and lenses so I'm confused at what your saying now
Here is a picture of my granddaughters eye at 200% out of camera

What I mean is that the H6D-100c does a poor job at focusing away from the center area.

Even focus and recompose with true focus is only designed for vertical portraits and a sweeping movement around a horizontal axis. So anything off axis doesn't maintina focus accuracy per my experience.

This isn't a problem with your body, it is a limitation of the design.

Accurate manual focusing is also very difficult with the H lenses compared to Zeiss Otus on 35mm for instance.

My personal conclusion is that the only way to focus consistently and accurately a H6D-100c on the eye of a model (the same would apply to a P1 IQ3-100 btw) is with live view.

I hope you were aware of these limitations when you decided to invest this amount of cash on your MF camera system. I personnaly had close to zero expectations from an AF standpoint.

Cheers,
Bernard

p.s.: I find your sample pretty soft.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 09:37:21 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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