A few questions regarding newly purchased Canon Pro-1000

[LawrenceBraunstein]

After eight years of dependable and relatively maintenance-free service, I finally needed to replace my Epson 3880. For reasons unrelated to my queries, I decided on the Canon Pro-1000 after years of experience purely with Epson printers. Generally speaking, I’m quite happy with the Pro-1000. However, having no experience with Canon photo printers, I’m noticing cleaning-cycle characteristics which appear curious in not somewhat excessive. Honestly, I’m not even certain they really are cleaning-cycles.  I’m referring to cleaning-cycles between photos in the printing queue. Though I’ve experienced such cleaning maneuvers in the past with my Epson printers, they have always been seldom and quite intermittent, usually first happening after quite a few prints had already been made. Definitely not consistently between prints. Could someone please tell me if this is normal behavior for Canon printers. Also, what is really happening during those alleged ‘cleaning’ episodes. Are there user preferences which reduce the frequency of such cycles?

My second question concerns when to replace ink cartridges.  With my Epson printers I usually waited until the printer stopped printing, replaced the appropriate cartridge, and continued printing.  I’m aware that Canon’s ‘low ink warning’ messages appear very early.  However, is it possible to continue printing until the cartridge is truly empty without ruining the print (as Epson printers are able to do)?  I have received  “ink may have run out” messages, but the word “may” leads me to believe Canon is perhaps trying to pressure me into an early cartridge change.  Is there a way to be certain?  In any case, thank you for any information or advice you may have!

With warmest regards,
Lawrence Braunstein

[Panagiotis]

After eight years of dependable and relatively maintenance-free service, I finally needed to replace my Epson 3880. For reasons unrelated to my queries, I decided on the Canon Pro-1000 after years of experience purely with Epson printers. Generally speaking, I’m quite happy with the Pro-1000. However, having no experience with Canon photo printers, I’m noticing cleaning-cycle characteristics which appear curious in not somewhat excessive. Honestly, I’m not even certain they really are cleaning-cycles.  I’m referring to cleaning-cycles between photos in the printing queue. Though I’ve experienced such cleaning maneuvers in the past with my Epson printers, they have always been seldom and quite intermittent, usually first happening after quite a few prints had already been made. Definitely not consistently between prints. Could someone please tell me if this is normal behavior for Canon printers. Also, what is really happening during those alleged ‘cleaning’ episodes. Are there user preferences which reduce the frequency of such cycles?

My second question concerns when to replace ink cartridges.  With my Epson printers I usually waited until the printer stopped printing, replaced the appropriate cartridge, and continued printing.  I’m aware that Canon’s ‘low ink warning’ messages appear very early.  However, is it possible to continue printing until the cartridge is truly empty without ruining the print (as Epson printers are able to do)?  I have received  “ink may have run out” messages, but the word “may” leads me to believe Canon is perhaps trying to pressure me into an early cartridge change.  Is there a way to be certain?  In any case, thank you for any information or advice you may have!

With warmest regards,
Lawrence Braunstein

Canon PRO-1000 uses ink (a lot) for maintenance. A lot of info in this thread:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=117644.0

The ! ink warnings are very conservative. There is a lot of ink in the cartridge when the ! mark first appears. Use it until you see the X red mark.

[Mark D Segal]

After eight years of dependable and relatively maintenance-free service, I finally needed to replace my Epson 3880. For reasons unrelated to my queries, I decided on the Canon Pro-1000 after years of experience purely with Epson printers. Generally speaking, I’m quite happy with the Pro-1000. However, having no experience with Canon photo printers, I’m noticing cleaning-cycle characteristics which appear curious in not somewhat excessive. Honestly, I’m not even certain they really are cleaning-cycles. 
With warmest regards,
Lawrence Braunstein

Lawrence, what exactly are these "cleaning cycle characteristics" you speak of?

[LawrenceBraunstein]

Lawrence, what exactly are these "cleaning cycle characteristics" you speak of?

Mark, it sounds to me like the typical 'cleaning sounds' one hears when a nozzle cleaning is performed. The sequence goes as follows: one photo in a queue finishes printing, the sound of the air suction system stops, but before the next print is pulled into the printer, it goes through what sounds to me like a cleaning cycle which takes about a minute or more. After this, the next piece of paper is pulled into the printer. I often have quite a few prints waiting their turn in the queue which amounts to quite a lot of time (not to mention the cost of ink used for cleaning) 'lost' at the end of a long printing session. Any ideas what's going on?
Lawrence

[Mark D Segal]

Mark, it sounds to me like the typical 'cleaning sounds' one hears when a nozzle cleaning is performed. The sequence goes as follows: one photo in a queue finishes printing, the sound of the air suction system stops, but before the next print is pulled into the printer, it goes through what sounds to me like a cleaning cycle which takes about a minute or more. After this, the next piece of paper is pulled into the printer. I often have quite a few prints waiting their turn in the queue which amounts to quite a lot of time (not to mention the cost of ink used for cleaning) 'lost' at the end of a long printing session. Any ideas what's going on?
Lawrence

OK - I don't think it's safe to assume that these are cleaning cycles. The fact is we don't know what the activity really is. Amongst the possibilities: it could be the use of a small bit of CO for cleaning the platen, and/or could be the printer re-priming itself for the next print, and/or could be a cleaning cycle (of varying ink usage) depending on the response of a number of self-monitoring sensors in the printer. The only way to know how much ink is being used overall for how many square feet printed is to keep careful records of differences of ink inventory stock and flow over a sufficient time period, including measurement of the filling of the maintenance tank, number of replaced cartridges and changes to the fill status of the cartridges from start to finish of the measurement interval. It would indeed be nice if both Canon and Epson were more transparent about ink usage for maintenance.

[LawrenceBraunstein]

OK - I don't think it's safe to assume that these are cleaning cycles. The fact is we don't know what the activity really is. Amongst the possibilities: it could be the use of a small bit of CO for cleaning the platen, and/or could be the printer re-priming itself for the next print, and/or could be a cleaning cycle (of varying ink usage) depending on the response of a number of self-monitoring sensors in the printer. The only way to know how much ink is being used overall for how many square feet printed is to keep careful records of differences of ink inventory stock and flow over a sufficient time period, including measurement of the filling of the maintenance tank, number of replaced cartridges and changes to the fill status of the cartridges from start to finish of the measurement interval. It would indeed be nice if both Canon and Epson were more transparent about ink usage for maintenance.

Many thanks, Mark! So, I may assume the machine is not behaving abnormally. I’ll learn to live with the time delay between prints. What about replacing supposedly empty cartridges? Are Canon printers similar to Epson in as far as allowing one to print until an ink cartridge is really empty (even if this happens during printing), replace the cartridge, and continue printing without having negatively influenced the quality of the print?
Lawrence

[Mark D Segal]

Many thanks, Mark! So, I may assume the machine is not behaving abnormally. I’ll learn to live with the time delay between prints. What about replacing supposedly empty cartridges? Are Canon printers similar to Epson in as far as allowing one to print until an ink cartridge is really empty (even if this happens during printing), replace the cartridge, and continue printing without having negatively influenced the quality of the print?
Lawrence

Right, based on what you describe this does not seem abnormal. And yes, do use the cartridge until you get a nag on the LCD telling you that it should be replaced.

[Johnperrydk]

Right, based on what you describe this does not seem abnormal. And yes, do use the cartridge until you get a nag on the LCD telling you that it should be replaced.

And the printer will not allow you to print until the cartridge is replaced. I always run a nozzle check after each replacement.


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[LawrenceBraunstein]

And the printer will not allow you to print until the cartridge is replaced. I always run a nozzle check after each replacement.

Thank you, John! Keith Cooper over at ‘Northlight Images’ writes in his review of the Pro-1000 that empty cartridges which he literally took apart were, in fact, void of ink. However, knowing the printer will not allow me to print without cartridge replacement is important. I suppose switching manufacturers - particularly after so many years - always requires certain workflow adjustments.

[Mark D Segal]

............ However, knowing the printer will not allow me to print without cartridge replacement is important. I suppose switching manufacturers - particularly after so many years - always requires certain workflow adjustments.

I'm not sure what the adjustment is here. For all the Epson printers I've owned, when the LCD says a cartridge is empty it had to be replaced before resuming printing.

[Garnick]

Are Canon printers similar to Epson in as far as allowing one to print until an ink cartridge is really empty (even if this happens during printing), replace the cartridge, and continue printing without having negatively influenced the quality of the print?
Lawrence

I've been an Epson Wide Format user since 2003, with 2-7600s(PK & MK), then eventually a 9900 for 7 years, and now a new P7000.  Whenever I have printed an image where I had to replace a cart during the printing cycle I can plan on trashing that print and starting again.  If it happens during the first few inches I simply delete that job from the que and change the cart.  I know Epson claims that there is NO negative effect of changing a cart in mid print, but unless I'm printing on Matte paper I would not be able to sell that print to my customer.  Now I will say that the severity of the issue does somewhat depend on where in the image the change is made, but at a certain viewing angle the "issue" is always evident.  I print a lot on Epson Luster, and very little on Gloss, but the issue appears on both and cannot be overlooked.  And again I would have to say that I've never seen it on any of the Fine Art Matte papers or the Matte Canvas I have used.  As a description -- it appears that the printer, following a cartridge replacement, seems to go back over some of the image already printed and add a very small an mount of ink, which presents as a more obvious gloss differential in that 1/2" area of the print.  It's also more obvious in a darker part of the image, but it is always noticeable.  When I'm getting very low on a colour and need to produce a large print, I always replace the low cart for that print only, so that I won't have to trash it for the reason mentioned.  I then of course replace the "low" cart and go on as usual, until the dreaded "X" appears and stops the printer completely. 

And, this issue has presented itself on all of the printers mentioned above!

Gary     

 

[Mark D Segal]

Not questioning what you've seen Gary, but I've never seen any such impacts with any of the 17" models I've used over the past 17 years - and I've looked. But as a precaution, nothing to lose implementing your procedure.

[Garnick]

Not questioning what you've seen Gary, but I've never seen any such impacts with any of the 17" models I've used over the past 17 years - and I've looked. But as a precaution, nothing to lose implementing your procedure.

Hi Mark,

Question - How often do you print on Epson Luster?  As I mentioned, I do a lot of Luster printing for my customers, and this issue always shows on Luster, especially roll stock.  As a matter of fact I'm not sure I have ever had to replace a cart while printing on Luster sheet stock, just coincidence I suppose.  And I also mentioned that it is sometimes very subtle, but if I can see it there's a good chance my customer will eventually.  I wrote that I rarely print on Gloss paper, but I'll change that to almost never, due to the pronounced gloss differential with the Epson Glossy papers.  The only 17" printer I've owned was an Epson 4000, and that goes way back.  Perhaps somehow the 17" printers do not exhibit this phenomenon for some reason, but all of the 24" and the 44" Epsons I've used certainly did, and do.  This is something that is very difficult to describe, but certainly not difficult to see when it happens.  However, it is what it is and I shall leave it at that.

Gary 

       

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Gary,

<(Your) Question - How often do you print on Epson Luster?>

To answer your question: Never - except for some comparative testing purposes. I've never liked that paper from day-one. For my taste, its too blue, high in OBAs, too thin and the larger sheets too prone to creasing. That said, it has endured over the years, and who knows, could be Epson's highest volume professional paper product, so I'm not knocking it; just saying why I don't use it. So inference is maybe I just haven't seen what you see because it happens with that paper and I haven't experienced it.

[Garnick]

Hi Gary,

<(Your) Question - How often do you print on Epson Luster?>

To answer your question: Never - except for some comparative testing purposes. I've never liked that paper from day-one. For my taste, its too blue, high in OBAs, too thin and the larger sheets too prone to creasing. That said, it has endured over the years, and who knows, could be Epson's highest volume professional paper product, so I'm not knocking it; just saying why I don't use it. So inference is maybe I just haven't seen what you see because it happens with that paper and I haven't experienced it.

Hmmm..interesting.  And a bit of a chuckle as well Mark - "so I'm not knocking it".  I include that quote in jest only of course.  As a matter of fact I tend to agree with almost all of your negative points concerning the Epson Luster paper.  And the fact that you never use Luster, which by the way was no surprise, but does however answer another question.  That being; why do you not see the issue I have described?  Anyone printing almost exclusively on Matte papers would never notice this, but it does show on Luster, at least the Epson Luster on an Epson printer.  If I had my way I would also be printing only on Matte Fine Art Papers, but I would lose most of my customers, due to the price point such papers demand.  I also have a dozen+ Fine Artists whose works I often reproduce, all of which are printed on Fine Art Papers, as well as canvas occasionally.  And you are also correct on another point.  Epson Luster has been their best seller by far for a number of years.  Which of course means absolutely Nothing.  Would you purchase a product based on its position on the "Top Selling" chart?  I think not.  However, the vast majority of my customers are very happy with the Luster prints I present them, as are those who are willing to pay the price for the Fine Art papers. 

Well Mark, I think we may have beaten this one into submission.  All from a post in which I disagreed with one lonely sentence.  One never knows what one might have started.  A good conversation.

Gary           

 

[JayWPage]

As a description -- it appears that the printer, following a cartridge replacement, seems to go back over some of the image already printed and add a very small an mount of ink, which presents as a more obvious gloss differential in that 1/2" area of the print.  It's also more obvious in a darker part of the image, but it is always noticeable. 
Gary     

This has happened with my 3880 when I have run out of PK black while printing a larger print. Where the cartridge ran out it was quite noticeable, especially in regard to the gloss differential.

Actually this was discussed a year or two ago on LL in regard to the 3880.

[Mark D Segal]

Well Mark, I think we may have beaten this one into submission.  All from a post in which I disagreed with one lonely sentence.  One never knows what one might have started.  A good conversation.

Gary           

Yes we have, and a good conversation, but lest I leave it with an erroneous impression - I print mainly on Baryta Luster papers (Ilford GFS, Hahn PhotoRag Baryta, Epson Legacy) as I find they are much more capable than the matte papers for deep black rendition, separation of deep shadow detail and overall gamut. Amongst the matte papers, I think Canon's Premium Fine Art Smooth has a lot going for it (see my write-up if I remember correctly in the Pro-2000 review), but hard to find in Canada.
 

[Garnick]

This has happened with my 3880 when I have run out of PK black while printing a larger print. Where the cartridge ran out it was quite noticeable, especially in regard to the gloss differential.

Actually this was discussed a year or two ago on LL in regard to the 3880.

Hi Jay,

"Actually this was discussed a year or two ago on LL in regard to the 3880".  That's interesting.  I have introduced this issue on various occasions over the past 10+ years, with little or no interest shown, or no one else experiencing the issue.  I obviously missed that thread on LuLa that you referred to.  I assume you saw this on Luster sheet, is that correct?  As mentioned, I don't believe I have ever had to replace a cart while printing on sheet.  Regardless, on some level it's good to find someone who has also experienced this abnormality.  Or perhaps that's the wrong word, since it might actually be quite normal after all.  There's always an interesting conundrum to take into account as well.  There are those who might perhaps see things that are not there, as opposed to those who cannot see things that ARE there.  Which is worse?

Thanks Jay,

Gary     

   

[enduser]

I'm not referring this to anyone here, but my mother used to say, "there's none so blind as them that won't see".

[JayWPage]

Hi Jay,

"Actually this was discussed a year or two ago on LL in regard to the 3880".  That's interesting.  I have introduced this issue on various occasions over the past 10+ years, with little or no interest shown, or no one else experiencing the issue.  I obviously missed that thread on LuLa that you referred to.  I assume you saw this on Luster sheet, is that correct?  As mentioned, I don't believe I have ever had to replace a cart while printing on sheet.  Regardless, on some level it's good to find someone who has also experienced this abnormality.  Or perhaps that's the wrong word, since it might actually be quite normal after all.  There's always an interesting conundrum to take into account as well.  There are those who might perhaps see things that are not there, as opposed to those who cannot see things that ARE there.  Which is worse?

Thanks Jay,

Gary

I've found the thread where it was discussed: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=103198.msg846638#msg846638

I was printing on Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl.