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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 933947 times)

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #160 on: August 02, 2017, 03:59:53 am »

Look at the Canon 6DMkII. It offers very little over the 6D and even less over competition.

An even better data point is the a7rII vs a7r.

And finally, the main concern of Sony will be to sell as many a9r as possible, so the differentiationn they will want to protect is btw a7rIII and a9r.

Anyway you look at it, it makes more sense to Sony to keep the a7rIII an alrounder camera which means small increases of resolution.

And I believe that the D850 is targetting the same positioning in the Nikon line up, which means a D900 is coming too.

Cheers,
Bernard

I think the challenge for Sony will be to keep up the speed of the A9 cameras with a higher resolution sensor. Right now, they managed to do the A9 a speed camera with 24 mp. Could they do the same in the future with a 42 or even higher mp count?

A7 > entry level
A7R > mid level high res
A9 > pro level low res speed
A9R > future pro level high res speed?

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #161 on: August 02, 2017, 08:46:31 am »

I believe that the a9x will simply go further along the chosen axis.

X=r -> resolution

Cheers,
Bernard

DennisWilliams

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #162 on: August 04, 2017, 01:28:56 am »


- mirrorless new FF body at around 1,400 US$ as a real affordable entry model, this would be instead of a D620
- D760 at 2,200 US$ to compete with the 6DII/a7III but specs close to the 5DIV (30mp, AF of the D810+)
- D850 at 4,000 US$ to compete with the 5DIV/a7rIII (46mp, AF of the D5)
- D5x and/or D900 at 5,000 US$ to compete with the 5DRII/a9r (70mp, AF of the D5)

Cheers,
Bernard

I would love that D5x. I just bought a D810 as a  P&S  and it could become the digital backup to the D5x  (if there was one)  and I will retire the 67s. California dreaming no doubt.
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scyth

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #163 on: August 04, 2017, 09:46:12 am »

A7 > entry level
A7R > mid level high res
A9 > pro level low res speed
A9R > future pro level high res speed?

no sense to make A9R based on what C & N do ... there will be A7S for video, A7 for masses, A7R for high resolution and A9 for sport/action
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scyth

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #164 on: August 04, 2017, 09:51:43 am »

No-one's going to buy an A7r3 with D850-level sensor performance and much poorer other features.
right.... much poorer other features = like EFCS while shooting through viewfinder (no mirror slap either) and IBIS , ability to mount all possible lenses too and many w/ AF even ...
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scyth

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #165 on: August 04, 2017, 09:53:30 am »

Look at the Canon 6DMkII. It offers very little over the 6D and even less over competition.

An even better data point is the a7rII vs a7r.

A7R2 offers much more over A7R than 6D2 vs 6D... EFCS & IBIS
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JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #166 on: August 04, 2017, 11:33:58 pm »

What the hell is a 'truth'?

That smacks of quasi-religious talk.

Hi. I have responded to your lack of understanding of the difference between the truth and 'the facts' on this new thread.

It will be my last response to you on this subject.

JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #167 on: August 04, 2017, 11:44:56 pm »

Hear, Hear! I mostlly care about very useful low ISOs and a workable LiveView...and some more pixels.

Back to the D850, yes.

The D810 is (for me) just about a perfect camera.

If I could get a truly great Live View, if I could increase fps to a decent (~8) level, and if I could have 46 mpx (so I no longer need a crop 20 mpx camera), and full-FX 4K video, I could live with this camera forever. Anything beyond that is overkill IMO.

With the lens availability Nikon proves, and with receiving upgrades to the few areas the D810 lacked, the D850 would be a retirement camera IMO.

Time will tell, and I am anxious to hear what the real specs are.

That said, I am happy with my D500 and D810 ... and I am in no rush to upgrade.

I have spent $39,000+ this 1.3 years, on camera equipment, and enough is enough.

I will probably "sit on the sidelines and watch" for the next year, maybe two, and spend my money on trips (enjoying the equipment I have) rather than blowing money on more gear ... at least for awhile ;)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #168 on: August 05, 2017, 06:07:58 am »

no sense to make A9R based on what C & N do ... there will be A7S for video, A7 for masses, A7R for high resolution and A9 for sport/action

Does that mean that you cannot both get high resolution and essential features implemented in the A9 such as double memory slot?

I would personnally never use a body without double memory slot for a mission critical application. Currently I still use my D810 over my H6D-100c in some cases because the current firmware of the H6D does not yet implement the back up feature promised leveraging the 2 available physical slots. This was also a major reason for not going P1.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 06:26:00 am by BernardLanguillier »
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2017, 07:59:07 am »

Look at the Canon 6DMkII. It offers very little over the 6D and even less over competition.

An even better data point is the a7rII vs a7r.

And finally, the main concern of Sony will be to sell as many a9r as possible, so the differentiationn they will want to protect is btw a7rIII and a9r.

Anyway you look at it, it makes more sense to Sony to keep the a7rIII an alrounder camera which means small increases of resolution.

And I believe that the D850 is targetting the same positioning in the Nikon line up, which means a D900 is coming too.

Cheers,
Bernard

But the A7r2 isn't an all-rounder camera. It's basically a 'bare sensor' camera or digital back, with a fantastic sensor and a lens mount that can take just about any lens you'd want to put in front of it, and not much else. Just about the only higher-end camera it beats performance-wise is the A7r, which was even more of a 'bare-sensor' camera - unlike the A7r, the A7r2 can actually AF on a walking person, when using a native Sony E-mount lens.

If you want to shoot anything that moves, the D810 or 5Ds are far better options (depending on whether you needed resolution or DR more) - they're cameras with true all-round capability, albeit a strong focus on resolution and image quality (no doubt the 5Ds successor will use the on-sensor ADC technology seen in the 1Dx2 and 5D4 for greater DR - it's not a budget, entry-level full-frame body like the 6D2). The appeal of the A7r and A7r2 wasn't to those who needed an all-round body - it was to those who didn't care about the other features and just wanted to put the best lenses in front of the best high-resolution sensors. It's no accident that the A7r sold heavily to Canon non-action photographers wanting a better sensor to put in front of their lenses - it was even marketed that way, with a Metabones adaptor being provided free with each camera sold.

The A7r3 needs to be along the same lines - maximal image quality, with everything else being secondary (or not even a consideration). They won't attract the non-action studio/landscape photographers, who were big buyers of the A7r and A7r2, with a body with only minimal IQ upgrades over its predecessor, and minimal IQ advantage over its comparably-priced competition, regardless of what else it includes in terms of AF, frame rate, etc. They also won't upgrade to the A9r, if what they need is a great sensor and not much else. Price is a big factor here - spending $2.5-3k USD is one thing, but double that, when you only need the sensor and none of the other parts, is another thing entirely.

It would make more sense for the A7r3 and A9r to be analogous to the 5D2 and 1Ds3 - equal image quality, but one being a bare-bones system for those who just need the sensor, the other being a high-performance system with top-tier AF, higher frame rate, etc., for those needing it (e.g. photojournalists, or those using it to shoot wildlife/action in addition to landscapes/architecture). Many people would buy one of each - the A9r as their base system, with the A7r3 as backup. Others (non-action photographers currently using the A7r or A7r2) would consider the high-resolution A7r3, whereas they would be less likely to consider a lower-resolution A7r3 or a more-expensive A9r. It'd be a win-win situation.
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Christopher

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2017, 08:08:31 pm »

Sorry but I have shot now over 100k images with my Phase and my cards, never had any reason for needing to shoot on a second card. I don't think there are many reasons to do so. If there was I would always prefer to shoot onto a mac or Pc straight away.


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #171 on: August 06, 2017, 07:06:11 am »

Sorry but I have shot now over 100k images with my Phase and my cards, never had any reason for needing to shoot on a second card. I don't think there are many reasons to do so. If there was I would always prefer to shoot onto a mac or Pc straight away.

Good for you. I had 3 cards from Sandisk/Lexar unrecoverably die on me over the years (2 SDs and 1 CF).

It does happen, the only question is when. The fact that most pro-grade bodies do offer 2 slots would appear to confirm my perception that it is important.

Cheers,
Bernard

shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #172 on: August 06, 2017, 07:30:34 am »

Good for you. I had 3 cards from Sandisk/Lexar unrecoverably die on me over the years (2 SDs and 1 CF).

It does happen, the only question is when. The fact that most pro-grade bodies do offer 2 slots would appear to confirm my perception that it is important.

Cheers,
Bernard

Card failure isn't even necessarily the biggest issue.

When travelling, I'd prefer to be able to keep multiple copies of data - for instance, one set with my cameras, another locked away in a different place, to guard against data loss through theft.
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scyth

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #173 on: August 06, 2017, 09:17:26 am »

Does that mean that you cannot both get high resolution and essential features implemented in the A9 such as double memory slot?

you can , but it will be A7R3, that's it ... unlike the situations with dSLR there is no separate PDAF module in dSLM - it is all related to sensor and how fast you get data off it ... higher MP sensor will make not make it easier to approach A9 (24mp) AF wise - whatever improvements happen they happen and be present in A7R3 body ... dual card slots and AF joysticks as C & N again show are not features exclusively available on their 1D* / D* series, so there is no reason to expect that Sony will not get it in A7R3 ... the key difference between A7R3 and A9 will remain : less MP = faster AF operation / more FPS ... all those lines about A7R2 not being all round camera is essentially related to CDAF/PDAF on sensor not being as fast/reliable for moving targets as separate PDAF module in dSLRs ... this is the principal problem to address...

« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:36:18 am by scyth »
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hogloff

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #174 on: August 06, 2017, 09:23:38 am »

Card failure isn't even necessarily the biggest issue.

When travelling, I'd prefer to be able to keep multiple copies of data - for instance, one set with my cameras, another locked away in a different place, to guard against data loss through theft.

I always back up to multiple hard drives rather than keep tons of cards around.
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #175 on: August 06, 2017, 09:38:08 am »

I always back up to multiple hard drives rather than keep tons of cards around.

Not convenient while travelling.

Computers are heavy, fragile and hard to keep powered in the wilderness. Also, I'm not certain about spinning, non-solid-state drives at high altitude and low air pressure..

Memory cards weigh almost nothing and are powered via the camera.
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hogloff

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #176 on: August 06, 2017, 10:25:28 am »

Not convenient while travelling.

Computers are heavy, fragile and hard to keep powered in the wilderness. Also, I'm not certain about spinning, non-solid-state drives at high altitude and low air pressure..

Memory cards weigh almost nothing and are powered via the camera.

I do use a solid state drive with computer for backup. Don't want to deal with dozens of cards while traveling.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #177 on: August 06, 2017, 01:19:02 pm »

you can , but it will be A7R3, that's it ...

We'll see, I don't share your views. I am pretty sure that Sony will release an a9r and that it will be significantly differentiated from the a7rIII.

Cheers,
Bernard

scyth

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #178 on: August 06, 2017, 02:09:16 pm »

We'll see, I don't share your views. I am pretty sure that Sony will release an a9r and that it will be significantly differentiated from the a7rIII.

so why Canon or Nikon are not releasing 2nd lines in 1D* or D* series (with more mp) and Sony all of a sudden shall when Sony still have smaller market than either C&N ? big boys do not see market for 2 high mp lines (something on top of D8** / 5Ds|r) and Sony out of nowhere shall see it ... slap 2 SD slots and AF joystick in addition to higher mp sensor and get A7R3 ... and for economy purposes Sony might simply reuse A9 body for A7 3, A7S3, A7R3 (may be w/o 2nd SD slot for A7 3)... that will be more logical and savvy
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 02:17:38 pm by scyth »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #179 on: August 06, 2017, 03:10:44 pm »

so why Canon or Nikon are not releasing 2nd lines in 1D* or D* series (with more mp) and Sony all of a sudden shall when Sony still have smaller market than either C&N ? big boys do not see market for 2 high mp lines (something on top of D8** / 5Ds|r) and Sony out of nowhere shall see it ... slap 2 SD slots and AF joystick in addition to higher mp sensor and get A7R3 ... and for economy purposes Sony might simply reuse A9 body for A7 3, A7S3, A7R3 (may be w/o 2nd SD slot for A7 3)... that will be more logical and savvy

To cut a long story short, the a7x line falls below the equivalent Nikon/Canon higher end bodies in some important physical features (double memory slot, more rugged design,...). The a9 line is designed to cover these.

Why would Sony not charge 5,000+ US$ if they were to release a 60+ mp body in the coming months? My view is that they will do this as a top of the line product features a non compromised feature set, and that means an a9r.

My view isn't that Sony will release their high res body both in a9 and a7 versions, you'll have to get the a9 to get the best sensor.

And, back to the original point (this thread is about the D850 and Nikon releases actually), I believe that Nikon will also release a body above the D850 that will feature a slower shooting experience with a very high res sensor also.

Cheers,
Bernard
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