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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 920269 times)

Jim Kasson

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #560 on: October 07, 2017, 11:18:40 am »

Here's a screen capture of the DXOMark comparison DR graph.

I like the way that Bill Claff presents similar data (in his case, dynamic range to resolution-adjusted target SNR) better:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D810,Nikon%20D850

For one thing, Bill plots the results in 1/3 stop increments, as opposed to DXOMark's full stops. That allows you to, in the case of the D850, see the result of the conversion gain change, and to see that you shouldn't use ISO 320 if you care about DR.

DXOMark does have the advantage that they plot actual sensitivity versus nominal, though.

My take is that, between the D810 and the D850, PDR is essentially a wash until ISO 400, where the conversion gain increases.

Jim

Ray

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #561 on: October 07, 2017, 07:01:57 pm »

I like the way that Bill Claff presents similar data (in his case, dynamic range to resolution-adjusted target SNR) better:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D810,Nikon%20D850

For one thing, Bill plots the results in 1/3 stop increments, as opposed to DXOMark's full stops. That allows you to, in the case of the D850, see the result of the conversion gain change, and to see that you shouldn't use ISO 320 if you care about DR.

DXOMark does have the advantage that they plot actual sensitivity versus nominal, though.


I've alwaysbeen wary of using intermediate ISO settings. They didn't seem to serve much purpose years ago when i was using Canon DSLRs. It was generally better to underexpose at ISO 200, for example, than attempt to get an ETTR exposure at ISO 320 using the same shutter speed. Shadow detail (when shooting RAW) would tend to remain the same at ISO 200, and the risk of blowing highlights would be reduced, compared with the ISO 320 setting.

Quote
My take is that, between the D810 and the D850, PDR is essentially a wash until ISO 400, where the conversion gain increases.

In practice, for general, hand-held photography, when getting a sufficiently fast shutter speed to freeze movement is often a concern, I find that ISO 200 is a much-used setting.

According to the DXO graph, both the D810 and the D850 at the nominal ISO of 200 have exactly the same measured ISO of 141, yet the DR of the D850, at ISO 141, is half a stop better (or 0.49 EV to be precise).

I would consider a half stop of greater DR to be at the threshold of a worthwhile improvement, although less than half a stop, such as 1/3rd or 1/4th EV, would be of little concern. Wouldn't you agree?

I tend to value DXOMark's DR results because I have always found them to be in approximate agreement with my own practical tests comparing shadow detail and noise in identical scenes shot with different cameras.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #562 on: October 11, 2017, 02:32:04 am »

Diglloyd (Lloyd Chambers) finally lays to rest the question of ISO 64 between the Nikon D810 and the new D850. Equally important to my work, he successfully vets the "lo" ISO values for each camera (ISO 31 on the D850 and ISO 50 on the D810), although they are not "real" ISOs. Of all the reports on the D850, this is what I am most interested in hearing about. One has to subscribe, but this report itself is worth the subscription IMO.
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kers

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #563 on: October 11, 2017, 08:19:13 am »

Yes, very nice that you can use this camera from 32 to 128.000 asa !
a really very versatile camera, in line with the tradition of the 35mm platform.


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #564 on: October 11, 2017, 08:42:00 am »







Cheers,
Bernard

32BT

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #565 on: October 11, 2017, 08:46:00 am »

Nice definition in blue. Good tonal separation and depth. What lenses? What RAW converter?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #566 on: October 11, 2017, 09:04:31 am »

Nice definition in blue. Good tonal separation and depth. What lenses? What RAW converter?

Converted with C1 Pro 10, lenses are 70-200 f2.8 E FL and 24-70 f2.8 E VR.

Both are very good (never understood the criticism of the 24-70 f2.8 VR, it is excellent and stabilization is a god send), the 70-200 f2.8 E FL very special.

Cheers,
Bernard

bjanes

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #567 on: October 11, 2017, 09:06:43 am »

Diglloyd (Lloyd Chambers) finally lays to rest the question of ISO 64 between the Nikon D810 and the new D850. Equally important to my work, he successfully vets the "lo" ISO values for each camera (ISO 31 on the D850 and ISO 50 on the D810), although they are not "real" ISOs. Of all the reports on the D850, this is what I am most interested in hearing about. One has to subscribe, but this report itself is worth the subscription IMO.

I may be wrong and would like to be corrected if so, but IMHO if the "lo" ISO of the D850 is like that of earlier Nikons, the lo option is simply increased exposure obtained by setting the light meter to a lower ISO and thus increasing exposure. One has to be careful not to blow the highlights. A similar result could be obtained by increasing exposure at ISO 64. Indeed, Bill Claff's photographic dynamic range shows little difference with the lo setting or between the D850 and D810.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D810,Nikon%20D850

However, the input referred read noise at the "lo" ISOs is slightly lower for the D850 than the D810. With both cameras, the read noise does not change significantly when going from ISO 64 to the lo ISOs. The lower read noise of the D850 as compared to that of the D810 could result in an improved engineering DR. Whether this would show up in normal usage is uncertain as is the need to use these "lo" ISOs. The read noise chart does show clearly the switch to a higher gain at ISO 400.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm#Nikon%20D810_14,Nikon%20D850_14

Diglloyd notes that with the "lo" ISO settings a linear tone curve rather than gamma encoding is used, but this would apply to JPEG but not raw (NEF) which uses a linear output.

Regards,

Bill
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 10:04:52 am by bjanes »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #568 on: October 15, 2017, 04:26:03 am »


D850 + 70-200 f2.8 E FL

Cheers,
Bernard

32BT

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #569 on: October 15, 2017, 08:53:50 am »

[ x ] tacksharp    8)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 08:57:14 am by opgr »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #570 on: October 16, 2017, 11:10:26 pm »

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850

Pretty positive review.

I am still very happy about my D850.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #571 on: October 19, 2017, 08:13:03 am »







Cheers,
Bernard

Ray

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #572 on: October 19, 2017, 09:25:39 pm »

Amazingly sharp and detailed, Bernard. Good enough for at least 2 meter x 3 meter prints. Have you got enough wall space?  ;)
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #573 on: October 19, 2017, 10:04:12 pm »

Amazingly sharp and detailed, Bernard. Good enough for at least 2 meter x 3 meter prints. Have you got enough wall space?  ;)

All that handheld with the horrible 24-70mm f2.8 VR and that archaic inherently inaccurate DSLR autofocus... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #574 on: October 20, 2017, 10:56:05 am »

Two times jealous - you got your 850 and you went to Greece. Great shots!!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #575 on: October 22, 2017, 08:06:44 am »

Two times jealous - you got your 850 and you went to Greece. Great shots!!

Thanks, I understand twice.

Cheers,
Bernard

cgarnerhome

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #576 on: October 23, 2017, 12:01:24 pm »

I just finished a trip to the coast of Oregon.  I had a specific project in mind that I was able to make some progress on.  I wanted to create portraits of sea stacks that I could assemble into a panel of images.  Ultimately, I wanted 9 total images of solo stacks. While I made some progress, the rain cut significantly into my shooting days.  Unfortunately, I damaged my XF100 and was unable to shoot with it for the bulk of the trip.  Fortunately, I had the Nikon 850 as my backup.  Almost all of the solo stacks were shot with the 850.  I will post some of the images shot with the 850 under the 850 thread.  All of these images are drafts as they have had only some processing on my laptop but you get the idea.

cgarnerhome

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #577 on: October 23, 2017, 12:03:27 pm »

Other images from 850

cgarnerhome

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #578 on: October 23, 2017, 12:06:06 pm »

I should add a note regarding the image of the crashing wave at Shore Acres.  If you look under the tree on the far right you will see a solo person that gives the image some scale.  Unfortunately, it was pouring down rain that day.  The 850 did well in the rain!
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