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Author Topic: 20th January, 2017  (Read 50295 times)

N80

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2017, 05:49:01 pm »

The reputation the US has had over the last 8 years needs destroying. Will Trump do better? Probably not. But again, he can do no worse.
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George

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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #101 on: January 26, 2017, 06:15:44 pm »

A few days later...

Waterboarding is permitted;
Oil pipelines cross the US unhindered
Climate scientists reports will be screened by the White House
The Embassy in Israel will move to Jerusalem.

The US president said meeting Enrique Pena Nieto would be "fruitless" if Mexico didn't treat the US "with respect" and pay for a new border wall.
and now the US will raise import taxes for the Mexican goods to fund this Wall

and still uses his unsafe Samsung S3, an easy to hack device.

It always takes less time to destroy a reputation than to built one.

Trump is a specialist in destroying the US reputation within days.

Lots of Fake news in there....
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N80

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #102 on: January 26, 2017, 07:15:50 pm »

Lots of Fake news in there....

"Alternative facts" is the appropriate new buzz word. :D
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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2017, 07:48:34 pm »

"Alternative facts" is the appropriate new buzz word. :D

Oh yea...I forget. 😜
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kers

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #104 on: January 26, 2017, 08:36:14 pm »

Lots of Fake news in there....

so be specific...
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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #105 on: January 26, 2017, 09:23:13 pm »

A few days later...

Waterboarding is permitted;

Wrong, Trump believes it works but also said he will defer to his people who say they won't waterboard.  Btw, we have used waterboarding as advanced training for our military for years.


Oil pipelines cross the US unhindered

They have for years.  We have 72,000 or more miles of pipeline currently in place.  Keystone will need to reapply for permits for example

Climate scientists reports will be screened by the White House

SOP when a new administration takes over.

The Embassy in Israel will move to Jerusalem.

Maybe, maybe not.  Right now it is talk.

The US president said meeting Enrique Pena Nieto would be "fruitless" if Mexico didn't treat the US "with respect" and pay for a new border wall.
and now the US will raise import taxes for the Mexican goods to fund this Wall

Again no terms have been formalized.  Right now it's talk.  Have you ever negotiated?

and still uses his unsafe Samsung S3, an easy to hack device.

One story based on un-named sources published by the NYT make that claim and it has been repeated by other publications. It has not been confirmed.  Yet another story says Trump was given a different phone by the Secret Service, again  not confirmed.  And even if he is, it's his choice.  Besides he does not email.

It always takes less time to destroy a reputation than to built one.
Trump is a specialist in destroying the US reputation within days.

It depends on your perspective.  From mine he has done more in 4 days to rebuilt the reputationof the US that any recent President.  YMMV.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 09:43:43 pm by Craig Lamson »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #106 on: January 26, 2017, 09:42:30 pm »

Nobel Laureate Kenneth Arrow argued that healthcare doesn't fit into traditional market based thinking and I agree.  http://web.stanford.edu/~jay/health_class/Readings/Lecture01/arrow.pdf

What you say is correct only if you have transparency in pricing and some type of quality measurement.  ONe of the things Obamacare did do was to improve hospital practices such that there are far fewer infections in surgical wards and as well as fewer mistakes in Rx dosing.  There is no transparency in pricing at all.  I tried to get the prices of a lumbar spine MRI and no provider would tell me how much they charge.  the only control on pricing right now is through insurance negotiations and if you go to an in plan facility or have Medicare you can get a preferred price.  What if you are on your own and you can't get pricing information.  this is exactly what will happen if you have an HSA or some other high deductible policy.

As to quality, how do you define it?  How do you know the hernia surgeon was the best one?  How do you know about surgical infections in the hospital? etc.  To make this argument that market forces will take care of this is specious at best and certainly not a recipe for good healthcare.

Although I agree that the health care market does not currently fit a traditional market, I do not think that this is inherent. 

The problem with health care is that insurance has become a middle man for almost every procedure imaginable, which is what we have come to expect.  So, those whom are receiving the care never really know how much it cost or the quality.  Those whom do know these answers are not the ones making the decision on whom to use or what to get (usually). 

The market has become distorted. 

How do you fix this, let people negotiate the fees themselves.  Prices will come down.  People will stop buying and, of course, die, initially, but the net effect will be to equalize the market and bring pricing down.  This sounds draconian, but like any other market, it will work. 

I am not sure I would be prepared to go this far though. 

Instead, maybe only have insurance for terminal illnesses and deceases, much like car insurance.  We don't expect car insurance to cover oil changes and basic checks, so why should we expect health insurance to cover cost associated with the common cold, or a broken bone, etc.? 

Now, insofar as getting pricing for procedures, I am sure the lack thereof set prices is partially due to insurance coming into the market as well.  Hospitals and complex heath care centers most likely invest in MRI or Gamma Knife Radiation machines (or whatever) without really knowing how much they need to charge per screening to produce a profit.  They just know what their overall revenues will be from insurance payments and allocates a certain percentage to advancements in care. 

Once again, take away insurance as a middle man and they will quickly figure this out. 

For simpler procedures, not like the ones you listed, you can get pricing fairly easily. 

I did go about two years with out coverage.  In that time, I broke my hand in two places and (thankfully) only needed a cast.  The x-ray initially cost $120, but I got it lowered to $80 since I was paying out of pocket.  The cast was $450, but was lowered to $280 for the same reason.  I doubt they felt bad for me, but more likely since they were being paid on the spot (cash in hand without any paper work) that was a cut to their business admin cost for my service. 

Should I have had insurance?  Not sure.  I know the cost of insurance during those two years would have added up to a lot more then $360, and any money I had at that time went to marketing my business.  I think I made the right choice to go uninsured for two years, especially now that my business is doing well. 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 09:46:27 pm by JoeKitchen »
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N80

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #107 on: January 26, 2017, 10:08:07 pm »


The market has become distorted.

Bingo! And there are three primary factors that distort them.

The first is the trend for employers to provide insurance. This was a horrible idea because the employer contracts and buys the insurance. The employee has little or nothing to say about it. And contracts are different with different employers and insurance providers. This takes away choice and makes understanding various plans almost impossible for the average person, me included, and I'm a doctor! If each person bought his own insurance he could shop for value and benefits. It would also be far easier for groups like consumer reports to evaluate plans and rate them publicly. As it is, no one can do this. This would lead to competition and cost savings. Some might think this would decrease their employee benefits. Not so, their salary would simply be higher and employers could gut bloated HR departments too.

The second is that insurers and heath providers should NEVER contract together. No money from an insurer should ever go directly to a doctor or hospital. The patient should pay the doctor with money he gets from his insurance company. Period. This would also allow competition among health providers and drive down that cost as well. Contracting between hospitals and insurance companies is convoluted and purposefully misleading. It needs to stop.

The third is that all aspects of managed care need to be thrown out. Managed care is pure evil and one of the main causes of bloated healthcare costs. Why? Many reasons. It puts insurance companies between patients and their doctors. The conflict of interest here is staggering. Insurance companies make decisions about what they will and will not pay for with no liability. They deny a test, you die, you cannot sue. They have no responsibility. But the worst aspect of it is bureaucratic bloat. At one time our practice of eight physicians had 50 employees the majority of which dealt with billing, referrals and prior authorizations. This drives expenses through the roof. Those expenses are passed on to the patient. It is obscene.

Doing these three SIMPLE things would transform healthcare in this nation. It promotes the kind of transparency we haven't had in years, it promotes competition, it would drive down prices and costs, it would give individuals freedom and choice, patients would never wonder which doctor they could see or which hospital they could go to. And instead of a simple primary care visit costing $150 it would cost $40. This alone would be transformative as it would allow us to go for inexpensive catastrophic plans for those in generally good health and then when you need to see your primary care doctor for a cold or your blood pressure you pay him cash.

Ad tort reform to this plan and you're done.

And make no mistake about it, the paperwork and bureaucratic red tape of managed care was NOTHING compared to what Obamacare ushered in. Its a simple principle folks: Socialized medicine in the US will look like the VA system. Research it. Read about it. It is a shame on this nation and an outrage. It has been for 50 years or more and change still hasn't come. Want to know what it is like to get your healthcare at the VA? There are two ways to visualize this: One, think about your experiences at your local DMV. Two, read the book Catch-22.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:12:18 pm by N80 »
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kers

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2017, 04:17:27 am »

...It depends on your perspective.  From mine he has done more in 4 days to rebuilt the reputationof the US that any recent President.  YMMV. ...

It certainly depends on your perspective...
I am from Holland ; this is our perspective...

https://youtu.be/j-xxis7hDOE
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jeremyrh

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #109 on: January 27, 2017, 07:07:29 am »

It depends on your perspective.  From mine he has done more in 4 days to rebuilt the reputation of the US that any recent President.  YMMV.

I think most of the world is wondering why you elected a racist misogynist bully who mocks the disabled, advocates torture, claims climate change is a Chinese plot etc etc etc. I'm not sure the reputation he has built is one you want to be built.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-torture-works-backs-waterboarding-and-much-worse/2016/02/17/4c9277be-d59c-11e5-b195-2e29a4e13425_story.html?utm_term=.20ebac3a5502
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2017, 07:39:52 am »

I think most of the world is wondering why you elected a racist misogynist bully who mocks the disabled, advocates torture, claims climate change is a Chinese plot etc etc etc. I'm not sure the reputation he has built is one you want to be built.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the great wall (which will drive up cost of imported goods for average Americans) will stop the Zika virus ..., oh wait, maybe the new jobs that will be created to produce locally will be at Mexican wage levels?

Cheers,
Bart

« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 10:47:52 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2017, 09:03:28 am »



The first is the trend for employers to provide insurance. This was a horrible idea because the employer contracts and buys the insurance. The employee has little or nothing to say about it. And contracts are different with different employers and insurance providers. This takes away choice and makes understanding various plans almost impossible for the average person, me included, and I'm a doctor! If each person bought his own insurance he could shop for value and benefits. It would also be far easier for groups like consumer reports to evaluate plans and rate them publicly. As it is, no one can do this. This would lead to competition and cost savings. Some might think this would decrease their employee benefits. Not so, their salary would simply be higher and employers could gut bloated HR departments too.
That began in the 1930s but really caught on during WWII when there were price controls and the only thing that companies could do for their employees was to offer them 'free' insurance.  this ended up breaking the 'fee for service' model of medicine.  The best model for individual choice is the Federal Employee Benefits Program that covers the almost 2M employees and retirees.  I worked at the National Institutes of Health a long time ago and was in that program.  One has a choice of a huge number of plans and they all have to be fully transparent to the Office of Personnel Management about the benefits which are published each fall in a rather large book that goes to all those in the plan as they can elect to change coverage each year.  A cottage industry exists that examines each plan and outlines the pros and cons.  Back in the early 1990s during Ms. Clinton's failed effort to solve the healthcare problem to just open up the program to everyone as a simple way to expand coverage.  It probably would have worked.


Quote
The second is that insurers and heath providers should NEVER contract together. No money from an insurer should ever go directly to a doctor or hospital. The patient should pay the doctor with money he gets from his insurance company. Period. This would also allow competition among health providers and drive down that cost as well. Contracting between hospitals and insurance companies is convoluted and purposefully misleading. It needs to stop.
  Isn't this the primary way costs are controlled?  One reason networks work is that they have negotiated pricing. You are making assumptions that individuals can easily do this for themselves.  Perhaps you and I can but I doubt that a vast majority of the American public would be able to do so.

Quote
The third is that all aspects of managed care need to be thrown out. Managed care is pure evil and one of the main causes of bloated healthcare costs. Why? Many reasons. It puts insurance companies between patients and their doctors. The conflict of interest here is staggering. Insurance companies make decisions about what they will and will not pay for with no liability. They deny a test, you die, you cannot sue. They have no responsibility. But the worst aspect of it is bureaucratic bloat. At one time our practice of eight physicians had 50 employees the majority of which dealt with billing, referrals and prior authorizations. This drives expenses through the roof. Those expenses are passed on to the patient. It is obscene.
  I've followed this ever since Paul Ellwood convened the first Jackson Hole meeting back in the late 1980s.  You are correct about the billing issue.  I'm not sure that your statement about 'denying a test and dying' is valid.  I would be most interested to know of an example or two here.

Quote
Doing these three SIMPLE things would transform healthcare in this nation. It promotes the kind of transparency we haven't had in years, it promotes competition, it would drive down prices and costs, it would give individuals freedom and choice, patients would never wonder which doctor they could see or which hospital they could go to. And instead of a simple primary care visit costing $150 it would cost $40. This alone would be transformative as it would allow us to go for inexpensive catastrophic plans for those in generally good health and then when you need to see your primary care doctor for a cold or your blood pressure you pay him cash.
You seriously think doctors are going to lower their fees?  I'm sure the AMA would go crazy.

Quote
Ad tort reform to this plan and you're done.
In the states where this has already been done there has been very little impact of the cost of healthcare

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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #112 on: January 27, 2017, 09:54:53 am »

I think most of the world is wondering why you elected a racist misogynist bully who mocks the disabled, advocates torture, claims climate change is a Chinese plot etc etc etc. I'm not sure the reputation he has built is one you want to be built.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-torture-works-backs-waterboarding-and-much-worse/2016/02/17/4c9277be-d59c-11e5-b195-2e29a4e13425_story.html?utm_term=.20ebac3a5502

Perhaps you missed the most important point he makes that lots of Americans agree with.  America FIRST.  Now if the rest of the wold finds that offensive, perfect.  Our country is 19 Trillion in debt, and it's time we take care of ourselves.  We did'nt elect a pope or Jesus.  Welcome to the big boy world.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2017, 09:56:29 am »

I'm looking forward to seeing how the great wall (which will drive up cost of imported goods for average Americans) will stop the Zika virus ..., oh wait, maybe the new jobs that will be created to produce locally will be at Mexican wage levels?

Cheers,
Bart

Stay tuned....
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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #114 on: January 27, 2017, 10:01:20 am »

It certainly depends on your perspective...
I am from Holland ; this is our perspective...

https://youtu.be/j-xxis7hDOE

That's actually pretty funny.
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jeremyrh

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #115 on: January 27, 2017, 10:11:24 am »

Perhaps you missed the most important point he makes that lots of Americans agree with.  America FIRST.  Now if the rest of the wold finds that offensive, perfect.  Our country is 19 Trillion in debt
Yep - not least to the Chinese. Perfect time to piss them off.
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Welcome to the big boy world.
Indeed. Too bad you elected a baby.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #116 on: January 27, 2017, 10:44:41 am »

Yep - not least to the Chinese. Perfect time to piss them off.Indeed. Too bad you elected a baby.

Perhaps it IS the perfect time.  No, we elected a leader. Welcome to the new reality.
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HSakols

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #117 on: January 27, 2017, 12:01:01 pm »

Trump will have a hard time silencing the National Park Service and the scientific community. 

Park Rangers to the Rescue
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kers

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #118 on: January 27, 2017, 12:10:28 pm »

.... Our country is 19 Trillion in debt, and it's time we take care of ourselves. ...
I suspect the opposite;
I think the US deficit will grow under Trump; he wants to lower taxes and built new highways and bridges ( and even more fences)
The rich will be richer and the poor will be poorer; perhaps they have a job, but need to work around the clock to pay their bills...
With his lack of diplomacy he already made China and Mexico pissed without any good reason; even before he was president.
He twitters from the hip, without thinking. Next day he changes his mind again...
It is wrong to think a country can do it alone. Welfare is built on world wide trade and mutual understanding. That is what history shows.
Protectionism was a big mistake that the 1930 crises deeper and longer.
The US is now (again) ruled by a bunch of cynic old conservative men deciding what is right for the young.
My biggest fear is that the US welfare will go down with Trump;
Then we have a nation with angry old men at the top and the most/best arms in the world, with a 'leader' as you call it, that pulls the trigger without too much thought.
for America First; America First.


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Craig Lamson

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Re: 20th January, 2017
« Reply #119 on: January 27, 2017, 12:14:02 pm »

Trump will have a hard time silencing the National Park Service and the scientific community. 

Park Rangers to the Rescue

Sure he can.  He can simply say, you're fired. 

But I agree its a stupid argument and as point in fact I compared the CNN Gigapixel image taken at 12:10 to the 12:01 Reuters image in detail and they are for the most part a perfect match.  Trumps team got it wrong.  BTW I even forwarded my comparitive analysis to the White House.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 12:20:52 pm by Craig Lamson »
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