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Author Topic: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?  (Read 11839 times)

E.J. Peiker

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2016, 02:07:31 pm »


What's up for debate though, is whether C1P v10 is perceived as a major upgrade over v9..  Seems awfully incremental, to me.  But on the same token, due to it's minor-ness - if one doesn't want/choose to upgrade, then they're not missing much either IMO.  (And I'd agree with Narikin, that regardless of the differential cost points made, the LCC fix should be put in the 9.x series also.  Maybe they will?)
I think if you baselined 9.0 vs. 10.0 the upgrade would look much bigger than the 9.3 to 10.0 upgrade looks.  One thing I appreciate is that Phase is rolling out some substantial improvements in dot releases as they become available (Phase is actually doing what Adobe promised with the move to CC and then didn't deliver as they are basically still giving you major releases about once a year rather than incremental releases every couple of months).  Yes that diminishes the impact of a release like 10.0 but I would much rather have the incremental improvements when they are ready rather than having to wait a year until enough of those are bundled together to create a substantial new full version release.
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2016, 04:58:09 pm »

Personally, I do see this upgrade as something major. The new sharpening is incredible, and I do my own printing (Epson 9900) both professionally for myself and other photographers so the new output sharpening and Proofing are very welcome. Something as simple as being able to move folders within a CO Catalog is something I've been asking for and will save me a lot of time. It appears the speed increase is significant enough to be noticeable and welcome on an older MacPro. I think $99 after a year with 9 is well worth the upgrade to 10.  Of course, I use CO professionally and it's a cost of doing business. If you're not, then it may not be worth it, yet.
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Mike Guilbault

Jeff Griffin

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2016, 05:47:24 pm »

I do my own printing (Epson 9900) both professionally for myself and other photographers so the new output sharpening and Proofing are very welcome.

At the moment I do not seem to be able to have the effects of the process recipe output sharpening / proofing show up in the print tool layout

Or do the effects not appear there but are apparent on the actual print ?

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2016, 06:27:45 pm »

At the moment I do not seem to be able to have the effects of the process recipe output sharpening / proofing show up in the print tool layout

Or do the effects not appear there but are apparent on the actual print ?

Hi Jeff,

With Capture One Pro version 10, they are on the 'Adjustments' tab of the Process Recipe panel (see attached).

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 07:58:17 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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N80

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2016, 07:52:30 pm »

I agree with above. Even though I upgraded primarily for the hope of speed, which I did not really see, one of the main issues I hear high end users complain about 9.x was lack of serious sharpening features. We have them now. I hope to take advantage of them soon and hope 10 will be my one-stop-shopping solution from import to final print output. I'm optimistic.
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George

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Jeff Griffin

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2016, 06:37:01 am »


With Capture One Pro version 10, they are on the 'Adjustments' tab of the Process Recipe panel (see attached).

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart,

          Perhaps I worded the question wrongly  :(

          If I am using the print tool, page layout etc. I cannot see a way of turning the proofing on / off to see those adjustments made in the output recipe

         Is this proofing feature only for output files ( jpg / tiff ) not printing direct, if so then there is possibly a feature request ?

Jeff

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2016, 08:04:15 am »

Hi Bart,

          Perhaps I worded the question wrongly  :(

          If I am using the print tool, page layout etc. I cannot see a way of turning the proofing on / off to see those adjustments made in the output recipe

Hi Jeff,

I now see what you were referring to. In the Print module there is no reference to sharpening settings that were made before, and I'm a bit puzzled myself and wonder if (I assume not) and how those settings translate (probably only the Diffraction and Sharpening panel/adjustment layer settings).

Quote
Is this proofing feature only for output files ( jpg / tiff ) not printing direct, if so then there is possibly a feature request ?

The Process sharpening settings for creating output files are obvious because we can also toggle the proofing on and off on the toolbar. But indeed, in the Print module there is nothing else than a sharpening slider without visual feedback or an indication that earlier sharpening settings are in effect. Maybe it still needs to be implemented in an upcoming dot release. It was also a bit puzzling why the Print module toolbar icon had to be installed on the toolbar because it was missing in the default setup.

The convoluted workaround is to produce an output file and then select that as the file to print with the output module, probably with it's additional sharpening disabled, but that's not how it should normally be done.

Maybe one of the PhaseOne representatives can shed some light on the Print module sharpening.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 12:03:55 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2016, 11:01:37 am »

It was also a bit puzzling why the Print module toolbar icon had to be installed on the toolbar because it was missing in the default setup.

How do you install the Print module toolbar icon?  I couldn't figure out how to do it.
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2016, 11:04:25 am »

How do you install the Print module toolbar icon?  I couldn't figure out how to do it.
Right click up in the toolbar then select Customize Toolbar and then drag whatever icon you want up into the toolbar.  Any of the three toolbars across the top can be customized this way.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 03:31:01 pm by E.J. Peiker »
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2016, 12:59:22 pm »

Right click up in the toolbar the select Customize Toolbar and then drag whatever icon you want up into the toolbar.  Any of the three toolbars across the top can be customized this way.

Thanks.  I didn't realize there was more than one toolbar (pretty new to Capture One).
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TommyWeir

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2016, 01:24:04 pm »

I'm glad that Phase One continue to invest in developing Capture One and happily will pay for it.  Even if, as others have pointed out, fixes aren't really upgrades.   Fuji auto-masking?  Finally....

It's pricey no doubt about that.  The upfront fee and what looks like an annual fee of 99 means the subscription model ends up being almost equivalent.  Depending on your needs you have the option of not upgrading or of upgrading every other version, something I do with certain applications. 

But something I use every day like C1? I'll keep up.

sjprg

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2016, 08:11:42 am »

My answer to this rant is that people expect to be paid a salary every month and if the companies don't keep working to improve the products and sell them YOU don't get paid. Research cost! Sometimes you get a big breakthrough and sometimes it marginal but it does improve.
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narikin

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2016, 09:37:29 am »

My answer to this rant is that people expect to be paid a salary every month and if the companies don't keep working to improve the products and sell them YOU don't get paid. Research cost! Sometimes you get a big breakthrough and sometimes it marginal but it does improve.

If you bother to actually read the original post, you will see I was specifically complaining that they put the fix for the IQ3-100 LCC issue into the new upgrade, rather than a 9.x release. Therefore, to have a properly working LCC mechanism for the VERY expensive back, you have to pay another $99.

(Yes, you can use v10 in DB mode here, but that will wipe out your v9 PRO installation, so you can't process other files - Sony, Canon - read above - you can't keep both Pro and DB versions easily on your computer)

Is it right of Phase One to charge IQ3 owners $99 to fix their error, if they wish to keep the Pro licence they already bought? No, in my opinion, it simply isn't. They should have put that fix into v9, or offered a free upgrade to 3-100 owners. Their error = their cost.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 09:41:12 am by narikin »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2016, 10:43:04 am »

If you bother to actually read the original post, you will see I was specifically complaining that they put the fix for the IQ3-100 LCC issue into the new upgrade, rather than a 9.x release. Therefore, to have a properly working LCC mechanism for the VERY expensive back, you have to pay another $99.

(Yes, you can use v10 in DB mode here, but that will wipe out your v9 PRO installation, so you can't process other files - Sony, Canon - read above - you can't keep both Pro and DB versions easily on your computer)

Hi,

I wonder if that (bold emphasis in your quoted text is mine) is the case.

V9 and V10 installations can coexist on the same computer as far as I know. Otherwise check with PhaseOne support how to run your Digital Back with V10 in free DB mode, and keep your V9 for other cameras at the same time, if you don't want the improvements for those.

Maybe (?) you can't run them side-by-side at the same time, but from what I've understood you should be able to run them one-after-the-other.

Cheers,
Bart
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narikin

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2016, 11:20:08 am »

Hi,

I wonder if that (bold emphasis in your quoted text is mine) is the case.

V9 and V10 installations can coexist on the same computer as far as I know. Otherwise check with PhaseOne support how to run your Digital Back with V10 in free DB mode, and keep your V9 for other cameras at the same time, if you don't want the improvements for those.

Maybe (?) you can't run them side-by-side at the same time, but from what I've understood you should be able to run them one-after-the-other.

Cheers,
Bart

Well Bart, all I can say is I tried and failed. Installing v10 in DB mode only (rather than upgrading the Pro for $99) it opens with a clean C1 default workspace,  and no record of your saved one.

Close that (you can only have one instance of C1 open at a time) and open your old v9 Pro, and your old workspace has gone now - with Quick Tab choices wiped out, etc. Yes, maybe it's deep there to recover somewhere, but it's a real struggle to do this. I gave up and rebuilt my workspace. It shouldn't be - it was their problem, and they are making people who gave them $35,000+ for an IQ3-100, pay to fix the LCC processing. That is simply wrong.  Quite frankly I'm amazed anyone finds that defensible!
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2016, 12:21:33 pm »

Well Bart, all I can say is I tried and failed. Installing v10 in DB mode only (rather than upgrading the Pro for $99) it opens with a clean C1 default workspace,  and no record of your saved one.

Close that (you can only have one instance of C1 open at a time) and open your old v9 Pro, and your old workspace has gone now - with Quick Tab choices wiped out, etc. Yes, maybe it's deep there to recover somewhere, but it's a real struggle to do this. I gave up and rebuilt my workspace. It shouldn't be - it was their problem, and they are making people who gave them $35,000+ for an IQ3-100, pay to fix the LCC processing. That is simply wrong.  Quite frankly I'm amazed anyone finds that defensible!

I explained in detail earlier in the thread how to get your V.9 workspace loaded in V.10 - it is simple.  As for running both, you just have to have a different catalog.  Don't upgrade your V.9 catalog or session to V.10.  then start a new one for just your Phase Captures in v. 10.  If you have already converted your v. 9 catalog to a v. 10 catalog, go retrieve the v.9 catalog off of a backup.
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narikin

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2016, 01:13:51 pm »

Well [...], all I can say is I tried and failed.

As you see in my above post - it didn't work for me. I was forced to pay up for the fix. You may be right for others, but it didn't work for me, in the limited time I had to get C1 Pro working again.

The fact that Phase expects you to run around like this, to fix their errors, is not acceptable. The LCC fix should have been a v9 update, not a v10 paid one. Period.
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N80

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2016, 02:29:28 pm »

As you see in my above post - it didn't work for me. I was forced to pay up for the fix. You may be right for others, but it didn't work for me, in the limited time I had to get C1 Pro working again.

The fact that Phase expects you to run around like this, to fix their errors, is not acceptable. The LCC fix should have been a v9 update, not a v10 paid one. Period.

Oh, come on. 10 might not be a huge upgrade but it certainly came with more than an attempted bug fix. And it seems to have value for plenty of customers.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2016, 03:01:13 pm »

The fact that Phase expects you to run around like this, to fix their errors, is not acceptable. The LCC fix should have been a v9 update, not a v10 paid one. Period.

Have you, by any chance, compared the 100mp LCC performance in Capture One 9 to that found in Phocus for the Hassy 100mp back?

Capture One 9's LCC for 100mp was best-in-class. It was not broken. In version 10 it is even better. v10 is available for free to use with Phase files; you're opting to pay for it because you want to use it with non-Phase files. If this was really a big problem/insult for you then you should talk to your Phase One dealer and I'm sure they can figure something out for you.

narikin

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Re: Capture One Pro 10 - Fed up with paying for annual upgrades?
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2016, 08:00:36 pm »

Have you, by any chance, compared the 100mp LCC performance in Capture One 9 to that found in Phocus for the Hassy 100mp back?

Capture One 9's LCC for 100mp was best-in-class. It was not broken. In version 10 it is even better. v10 is available for free to use with Phase files; you're opting to pay for it because you want to use it with non-Phase files. If this was really a big problem/insult for you then you should talk to your Phase One dealer and I'm sure they can figure something out for you.

Well Doug, the dealers in their puffery for v10 list the fixing of LCC for wide Tech lenses (Roddy32, for example) as one of the 'features' of this upgrade. I am a tech shooter, who stitches, so, yes, I found it 'broken' - and many dealers concur for wide tech lenses, though they wouldn't say so in print. The fact that Phocus might be worse is neither here nor there.

No, I was not 'opting to pay for it because you want to use it with non-Phase files' I was having to pay for it to get the LCC fix, and be able to carry on processing my other camera RAWs - Canon, Sony, - for which I was very happy in the v9Pro that I had bought. (as above it is hard to install/operate both v9Pro and v10DB on 1 computer).  Most of the other new features are of no use to me - output sharpening?  No thanks, I don't print from C1.

Personally I think Phase should just go over to the subscription model - it's what they are effectively doing, anyway.

I'm flogging a dead horse here, so this will be my last reply. Thanks all for letting me vent on this. Over and out!
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