Poll

Your prediction, not your vote.

Clinton
- 9 (69.2%)
Trump
- 4 (30.8%)
Hung college
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 13


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Author Topic: Election predictions  (Read 79750 times)

pegelli

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #220 on: November 12, 2016, 12:27:21 pm »

And in a related news...
Are you sure she isn't talking about Obama?  ;)

JK, all this protest, violence, intimidation, threats, hyperboles, demonizing, hate against minorities is absolutely counterproductive.

After two days it's already very clear that "Trump the candidate" is a very different person from "Trump the president elect", give the guy a chance to demonstrate what he is capable of rather then judge him by the words he uttered to get elected. When Reagan got elected also a lot of people were afraid the world would end in a big nuclear blast, but in the end it didn't turn out all that bad either.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #221 on: November 12, 2016, 12:56:34 pm »

Are you sure she isn't talking about Obama?  ;)

JK, all this protest, violence, intimidation, threats, hyperboles, demonizing, hate against minorities is absolutely counterproductive.

After two days it's already very clear that "Trump the candidate" is a very different person from "Trump the president elect", give the guy a chance to demonstrate what he is capable of rather then judge him by the words he uttered to get elected. When Reagan got elected also a lot of people were afraid the world would end in a big nuclear blast, but in the end it didn't turn out all that bad either.

Pieter, you got it.  He really isn't what he presented during the elections.  Like Trump, I'm from Queens, NYC so I know the type.  I also had a sub-contracting construction firm back in the 1980's and 90's and dealt with many NYC real estate developers like Trump but never Trump himself.  They're mostly all the same.  Cheap, hard bargainers, narcissistic,  looking to save a penny, tough yet charitable.    Cruz also had it pretty much right when he called him a New York liberal. 

Another thing I noticed years ago about him.  He always complemented people (for the most part), even his enemies and competitors.  As near as I could figure out he didn't like burning bridges.  You may need that person in the future.  Plus you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.  All the cursing, vile words etc during the campaign were to create his brand and get people to notice him and vote for him.  But through the nasty way he often projected himself, many people understood that he was for them and they gave him their vote.

Now that the election is over, you already see the complements to Obama, Hillary, Bill and others.  He will negotiate and smooth talk the Democrats in Congress to get things done.  He'll balance that with toughness, something needed if you're a CEO or President.   People are going to be very surprised when they see his true personality and will grow to like him very much like Reagan.  He's going to be a very effective President for America. 

Telecaster

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #222 on: November 12, 2016, 12:57:01 pm »

The fact that bullshitting your way into office is routine, particularly at the US national level, is at the core of why I'm a non-partisan and why I feel the entire enterprise is an obscenity. That the electorate seems to prefer the shitshow to a considered discussion and evaluation of issues says nothing positive about us.

IMO you get the government you deserve. Maybe not at an individual level but at a societal level, yes.

-Dave-
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jfirneno

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #223 on: November 12, 2016, 12:58:02 pm »

Yup, Trump never demonized Clinton, right! That's probably why he won  ;)

The two candidates are supposed to attack each other.  That's how it works.  The fellow in the film clip (someone in the media who by his own admission is a progressive) correctly diagnosed the problem of the media using their megaphone to shout down the people they don't like by branding them as whatever scary label they could think of (racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, climate denier, islamophobe, xyzphobe, etc., etc., etc.).  Eventually the unevenhandedness becomes obvious.  Once the media lose credibility then even a game show host who paints his head orange and marries models for a hobby becomes a more reliable purveyor of the truth than the newspapers and tv talking heads.  That's why he won.  Because what he said was closer to what these people experienced in their own lives than what everyone else claimed to be the case.  Trump was the little orange headed boy who said the emperor had no clothes.  So they voted for him.  Very simple.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #224 on: November 12, 2016, 01:28:47 pm »

The fact that bullshitting your way into office is routine, particularly at the US national level, is at the core of why I'm a non-partisan and why I feel the entire enterprise is an obscenity. That the electorate seems to prefer the shitshow to a considered discussion and evaluation of issues says nothing positive about us.

IMO you get the government you deserve. Maybe not at an individual level but at a societal level, yes.

-Dave-

Discussion and evaluations of policies are nice especially if the people are running for Senator or Congressman who vote for this policy or that.  But being a governor or a President is mainly about leadership, not necessarily about policies although people knew where both candidates stood on issues.  Being a good debater or a policy expert, does not mean you know how to execute.  You want to know what the President is made of, how they'll handle themselves especially when the scales are stacked against them.   Will they fight or surrender?  Will they compromise or pout?  Do you trust them or not?  These are the things that were on display for the last year.  It was quite a show on both sides.       

pegelli

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #225 on: November 12, 2016, 01:46:12 pm »

The two candidates are supposed to attack each other.  That's how it works.  The fellow in the film clip (someone in the media who by his own admission is a progressive) correctly diagnosed the problem of the media using their megaphone to shout down the people they don't like by branding them as whatever scary label they could think of (racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, climate denier, islamophobe, xyzphobe, etc., etc., etc.).  Eventually the unevenhandedness becomes obvious.  Once the media lose credibility then even a game show host who paints his head orange and marries models for a hobby becomes a more reliable purveyor of the truth than the newspapers and tv talking heads.  That's why he won.  Because what he said was closer to what these people experienced in their own lives than what everyone else claimed to be the case.  Trump was the little orange headed boy who said the emperor had no clothes.  So they voted for him.  Very simple.
I have no problem with all that you're saying, but it's a joke that Trump didn't demonize Clinton. He did (and so did his followers). But he got away with it because nobody else was following him. So it's not the demonizing that got him elected, it's the fact that of the two evils he seemed the lesser evil as well as willing to listen to what the people really wanted.

And while it was clear for his followers that he wasn't a racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, climate denier, islamophobe, xyzphobe, etc., etc., etc. it also cannot be denied that many of his remarks were racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, climate denier, islamophobe, xyzphobe, etc., etc., etc. But it got him elected, so the conclusion now is that it worked.
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pieter, aka pegelli

jfirneno

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #226 on: November 12, 2016, 01:48:51 pm »

I have no problem with all that you're saying, but it's a joke that Trump didn't demonize Clinton. He did (and so did his followers). But he got away with it because nobody else was following him. So it's not the demonizing that got him elected, it's the fact that of the two evils he seemed the lesser evil as well as willing to listen to what the people really wanted.

And while it was clear for his followers that he wasn't a racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, climate denier, islamophobe, xyzphobe, etc., etc., etc. it also cannot be denied that many of his remarks were racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, climate denier, islamophobe, xyzphobe, etc., etc., etc. But it got him elected, so the conclusion now is that it worked.

They demonized each other.  That's called politics.  We expect that.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #227 on: November 12, 2016, 02:02:02 pm »

  Eventually the unevenhandedness becomes obvious. 
Ah, so Hilary talked about grabbing pussy, assaulted women, promised to ban Muslims, belittled war heroes, mocked the disabled, but the media didn't report it. Thanks for clearing that up.
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pegelli

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #228 on: November 12, 2016, 02:10:11 pm »

Demonizing your enemies means ignoring the truth. 
They demonized each other.  That's called politics.  We expect that.
OK, I get it  ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #229 on: November 12, 2016, 02:11:21 pm »

Ah, so Hilary talked about grabbing pussy, assaulted women, promised to ban Muslims, belittled war heroes, mocked the disabled, but the media didn't report it. Thanks for clearing that up.

No it was about Hillary enriching herself selling political favors; about putting herself before the country's interest; about caring little about the little man and woman.   

jfirneno

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #230 on: November 12, 2016, 02:14:56 pm »

Ah, so Hilary talked about grabbing pussy, assaulted women, promised to ban Muslims, belittled war heroes, mocked the disabled, but the media didn't report it. Thanks for clearing that up.

grabbing pussy, assaulted women  Listen to the tape and you'll realize you're listening to a rich guy describing the contestants trying out for the "So You Wanna Be Donald Trump's Next Wife" show.  Let's face it.  That's the world he lives in.  Doesn't suck to be him.

promised to ban Muslims,  After the latest two mass killings by first generation muslim americans I'm guessing this was considered a feature not a bug in the Trump program by most Americans.

belittled war heroes, mocked the disabled,  Yeah, Trump can talk a lot of trash to people who go after him.  He can act like a real jerk.  But we saw how nice Mitt Romney was when he was being attacked by the press and he got his butt kicked.  So people go with the guy who can defend himself.  That doesn't mean they don't think he's a bit of a jerk.  Just not a whimp.

By the way, read some of Hillary's private comments in wikileaks.  She's also more than a bit of a jerk.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #231 on: November 12, 2016, 02:17:18 pm »

No it was about Hillary enriching herself selling political favors; about putting herself before the country's interest; about caring little about the little man and woman.
Well, luckily for us we can rely on you and your independent non-media-based investigation. Phew!!
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jeremyrh

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #232 on: November 12, 2016, 02:20:54 pm »



belittled war heroes, mocked the disabled,  Yeah, Trump can talk a lot of trash to people who go after him.  He can act like a real jerk.  But we saw how nice Mitt Romney was when he was being attacked by the press and he got his butt kicked.  So people go with the guy who can defend himself.  That doesn't mean they don't think he's a bit of a jerk.  Just not a whimp.

Just to highlight one item from your string of nonsense - you think it's somehow being a tough guy to make fun of a person's disability? I think that tells us as much as we need to know.
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jfirneno

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #233 on: November 12, 2016, 02:29:51 pm »

Just to highlight one item from your string of nonsense - you think it's somehow being a tough guy to make fun of a person's disability? I think that tells us as much as we need to know.

Come on now, we don't want to discriminate against anyone by not allowing him to be mocked by Donald Trump.  He made fun of Jeb Bush for being low energy.  He claimed Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination.  He said Ben Carson was pathological and that the Pope was a communist.  Why would you want to be left out of a club with so many high achievers.  The only one who can complain because Trump didn't lie about him is Bill Clinton.  It was no lie when Trump said Clinton was a rapist.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #234 on: November 12, 2016, 02:48:32 pm »

It was no lie when Trump said Clinton was a rapist.

And you know that because ..   Oh, no. You don't know it at all.

Whereas ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-ex-wife-claim-he-raped-her-resurfaces-in-new-documentary-a6836151.html
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jfirneno

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #235 on: November 12, 2016, 02:59:48 pm »

And you know that because ..   Oh, no. You don't know it at all.

Whereas ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-ex-wife-claim-he-raped-her-resurfaces-in-new-documentary-a6836151.html

As Hillary Clinton very wisely said, "if a woman claims to have been raped, she must be believed."  Surely you're not a misogynist or something?
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jeremyrh

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #236 on: November 12, 2016, 03:12:00 pm »

Surely you're not a misogynist or something?

Nope. But nice try at deflecting the attention from Trump.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #237 on: November 12, 2016, 03:20:42 pm »

As Hillary Clinton very wisely said, "if a woman claims to have been raped, she must be believed."

Did she say that, really?

What she really said is somewhat different (as can be expected from someone with a legal background), but that apparently eludes those who want to twist the facts in their favor over the backs of actual sexual assault victims. Disgusting.

But then that so called quote of yours is just to divert attention, so I'll leave it at that. Enough said.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Zorki5

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #238 on: November 12, 2016, 03:23:55 pm »

That is not to say that there is no reason for being disappointed in previous governments, but that's the USA for ya.

I beg to differ on this one, Bart. That's by far not just "the USA for ya", it's everywhere. The guy in the video is a Brit (and he always talks about US and GB), and I can also assure you that in Russia it is exactly the same way.

Who "created" Putin? "Liberal" (yes, in quotes; read on) scumbags and their media; look no farther.

Media, media, f*** media. Screwing reality 7/24. And then, of course, everything comes as a huge freaking surprise!

Crimea has about ~90% Russian-speaking population, about 7% Crimean Tatar, and 3% Ukrainian. What did Ukraine do? First, they banned Russian in Crimean cinemas, all movies had to be translated to Ukrainian. All shop names etc. in the streets etc. had to be in Ukrainian only. Then then-president Uschenko visited Crimea and noticed road signs in Russian -- those also had to go.

Then president Yanikovich (an unspeakable crook, but that's not the point) made concessions, and introduced the notion of a "regional" (as opposed to "state") language. What was the first thing done after the coup? They scraped it. This followed by nightly parades with torches (looking exactly like those in Germany of 30th), with slogans like "Moscovites to the gallows"... Russian journalists filming that got severely beaten.

Did many Westerners hear about any of that? Did they see those night Nazi-style parades with oceans of torches? If not, then of course subsequent Crimean events, including the overwhelming vote to join Russia, would come as a huge freaking surprise ("Brexit 0").

But when Russian government shuts down radio station run by the group behind "Crimean blockade", it's all over the news on BBC and elsewhere. Speaking of that "blockade": they shut down water supply to the peninsula, then blew up electricity supply lines, leaving ordinary people with scarce water and almost no electricity. What did all those "liberals" and "human rights" groups say? NOTHING. They are first to defend Khodorkovsky, who amassed $15 billions in just few years, allegedly ordering assassination of the major of Nefteyugansk in the process, but ordinary people? Nah, that's not interesting, that doesn't draw enough attention to them...

And guess what, those "ordinary people" still get it, everywhere. I remember that, when I visited UK in early 200th, I came to a small hotel (a dozen rooms above a pub, near Cambridge), and second thing after greetings an old lady at the desk said to me was "That Abramovich, he is a crook, right?". Yes, mam, he is. And yet if Putin ever touches him as he did with Khodorkovsky (unlikely, as what triggered crackdown on Khodorkovsky was his presidential ambitions; he wanted to own the whole country), "liberal" media will cry foul, aloud.

Berezovsky buys votes, wholesale, and makes Mikhail Evdokimov (a standup comedian!) governor of Altai Krai. That's somehow OK -- democratic process etc., no objections. But people saw what was happening... So when Putin scrapped the right to elect governors and started to appoint them, that went down pretty well with the majority.

Berezovsky... Ah, that a huge story in itself, but suffice to say that portraying (and supporting!) that beast as Putin's opponent by Western media was way better than open endorsement of Putin! Berezosky and Abramovich arguing in High Court about how exactly they stole the money from Russian people... Heck, Martha Stuart went to jail for 1/1000th of that!

Recently, one of the "human rights" groups got purged out of the building (central Moscow) they rented because they could not pay their bills.  That's a bad thing, right? Well, right. But all I've seen from them so far is protecting oligarchs, gays, etc. They cannot be more detached from the reality, from what this country's biggest issues are. So I would not go as far as the guy in the video with his "No sympathy whatsoever", but I do have very little sympathy indeed.

Detachment from reality: this is where it all starts; in the US and elsewhere.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Election predictions
« Reply #239 on: November 12, 2016, 03:34:43 pm »

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