What does it take?

[Rand47]

I think you're being way too nice and overestimating the intelligence of Mrs Trump and/or her advisors (which she said she used as little as possible ).
The way you define it any music played is plagiarism, because all the notes have been used before.
She even reused parts of the speech that weren't applicable to her youth and upbringing, that tells me enough.

But, as Slobodan pointed out, it's just an opinion, no more, no less 

In classical music, a "quote" from another composer is often apparent.  Even sometimes celebrated as homage.  I don't see what you are saying as the least bit relevant to my original comments. 

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that Mrs. Trump either "all on her own" or with "a little help" intentionally and knowingly copied specific bits from Michele Obama to use in her speech, thinking that no one would notice?  Yup, that's what I'd do.  I'd go to the persons I'm trying to oppose and defeat as my source for writing a great speech in in furthering that effort.  Makes perfect sense.

Rand

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...But to come to the conclusion, because of category errors, that facts = opinions, is intellectual suicide.

Ok, you lost me there. Who is saying that facts = opinions?

[pegelli]

Yes Rand, I believe that and to me it shows how stupid the Trump campaign managed this part of the convention.

But be my guest and show the similarities between Michele's and Laura/Nancy's speech as convincingly as between Melania and Michele's speech and I might be tempted to change my opinion.

[Rand47]

Ok, you lost me there. Who is saying that facts = opinions?

That's exactly what the cartoon/illustration is saying.  Although, based on my response, the cartoon/illustration is a "drawing" of the category error.

Rand

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Looks like my last illustration caused some unexpected interpretations, so how about this one (Australians included)?:

[jfirneno]

Btw, I find it amazing that the republican party keeps bashing and blaming others rather then come forward with their own program (other then bringing more Christian bibles in the US education program). The only thing holding them together is the hate of Hillary and while it may work I see some similarities with Germany in 1930, when they got a similar election rhetoric (and successful result) that they deeply regretted in 1945.

Christian bibles and hate of Hillary.  Wow, Pieter your stereotyping of conservative motivations needs updating.  But let's put that aside for a minute and identify why you like to discuss US politics instead of your own nation's affairs.  Why don't you give me a glimpse of your nation and its politics.  Explain to me the similarities and differences between your own land and the awful Americans.  And since you say it reminds you of 1930s Germany, please remind me of what your homeland did to stop Germany in the second world war.  I seem to remember in my propaganda history class that we for some unknown reason sent a few million of our young men to Europe to do something or other.  I don't think we bashed or blamed too many of the victims.  I think we had a plan of our own.  It was called the Marshall Plan.  And I believe it rebuilt most of Europe.  Hillary wasn't there but I believe there were a good number of Christian Bibles in the hands of a lot of chaplains that were reading last rites over the fallen boys who gave their lives.  And the head of that little effort was a man named Eisenhower and I believe he was a pretty good republican president and he had some pretty good plans of his own.

[Rand47]

Yes Rand, I believe that and to me it shows how stupid the Trump campaign managed this part of the convention.

But be my guest and show the similarities between Michele's and Laura/Nancy's speech as convincingly as between Melania and Michele's speech and I might be tempted to change my opinion.

Well, how about this, exact words from the book, The Seven Habits Of Highly Effective People by Stephen R Covey :

"There is only one sure means of success. Number one, work hard for what you want in life. Number two, treat your word as your bond and always do what you say you're going to do. And number three, respect everyone and treat them with dignity even if you don't know them or agree with them. And always, always, take the opportunity to pass the values on to the next generation."

As I said, the equivalent of "mom and apple pie."  So, now both Mrs. Obama and Mrs Trump are guilty of stealing from Stephen Covey?  That is my real point.  Saying what both Obama and Trump said is about as unique (and their own) as saying the sky is blue.  To make a big deal out of that, as though is was some kind of underhanded theft is patently ridiculous.

Addendum: Lest I seem overly harsh, let me point out that the use of this kind of language "repetition" is as old as humanity.  Oral tradition, story telling, is replete with "creedal statements" where "who we are and what we value" is put into the kind of creedal statement that Covey expresses in his book.  As such, it is "the story we tell ourselves" in order to reinforce and pass along those values.  As such, they belong to no one and everyone.  I believe that both Mrs Obama and Mrs Trump were doing exactly that with what they said in their respective speeches, and telling us that their husbands will be "faithful to carry on our story and values."  This is why I take umbrage with a "media" that is so seemingly dense and obtuse as to twist and distort what happened.  They know better, based on what I said above (or they should).  And, worse, if they really "don't know this" - then our society is in much worse shape than even I suppose it to be.

Rand

[Rand47]

Looks like my last illustration caused some unexpected interpretations, so how about this one (Australians included)?:

Slobodan,

LOVE it!   

"Drop that bacon, and put your hands up!"

Rand

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Rand, my compliments (on the Seven Habits... find)!

[pegelli]

Wow, Pieter your stereotyping of conservative motivations needs updating. 

Well, just tell me what else were important republican program items at the convention?

And the head of that little effort was a man named Eisenhower and I believe he was a pretty good republican president and he had some pretty good plans of his own.

And I think you're a bit liberal in you connection of the historical dots here. Eisenhower was the leader in the field in WWII but the "Commander in Chief" was Roosevelt and the Marshall plan was more from the Rooseveld/Truman era who were both good Democrats and the plan was over by the time Eisenhower became the 34th president. Eisenhower was indeed a good republican president, but for this convention he may have sided with Bush Sr. and Jr. who both decided to skip the honours of attending this years' GOP convention.

[sierraman]

Looks like my last illustration caused some unexpected interpretations, so how about this one (Australians included)?:

As an American I say..........that bacon sure looks good!

[pegelli]

Looks like my last illustration caused some unexpected interpretations, so how about this one (Australians included)?:

Well, this is my idea about an American breakfast    :

Makin' Bacon

[jfirneno]

Well, just tell me what else were important republican program items at the convention?

Returning the government to people who won't attack the bill of rights, specifically freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms (guns).

Now stop avoiding the question I asked.  What do you believe in?  What does your government stand for?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Rand, my compliments (on the Seven Habits... find)!

Ok, in the interest of full disclosure and truth, it appears that there is no evidence that such a passage exists in the Covey's book. I was too quick to take it for granted. My bad.

http://www.snopes.com/michelle-obama-plagiarized-stephen-r-covey/

[pegelli]

Returning the government to people who won't attack the bill of rights, specifically freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms (guns).

Now stop avoiding the question I asked.  What do you believe in?  What does your government stand for?

Yup, I agree, forgot to mention that nominating Trump was another agenda item.

I don't know why I should answer your question since this thread is about US politics, not European politics but I give you something to bite on anyway: What I stand for, and what my country stands for is tolerance and freedom incl. no discrimination based on religion, gender, sexual orientation, background, race etc. etc. but a hard stand against crime and terrorism.

[Rand47]

Ok, in the interest of full disclosure and truth, it appears that there is no evidence that such a passage exists in the Covey's book. I was too quick to take it for granted. My bad.

http://www.snopes.com/michelle-obama-plagiarized-stephen-r-covey/

Interesting.  Doesn't negate my point about "creedal statements" however, though it does reinforce my statements about the evil that mankind does!  Sad.  Partisanship in any guise, for its own sake, and "at any cost" - is just ugly.  A "fake quote" from Covey, weird, I wonder who dreamed that one up.  Sorry to have posted without vetting.  I'll bet Google's servers are smoking at the moment with people doing research on every word either of them has ever spoken.

Rand

[pegelli]

Ok, in the interest of full disclosure and truth, it appears that there is no evidence that such a passage exists in the Covey's book. I was too quick to take it for granted. My bad.

http://www.snopes.com/michelle-obama-plagiarized-stephen-r-covey/

Great find Slobodan, saved me a trip to my attic where my copy of Covey's book is hidden somewhere. Wanted to do that since I didn't remember the contested "quote" (but granted, it was probably 20 years ago that I read it) so I wanted to make sure. Can't trust social media anymore these days, have to check and double check everything they say there. What a mess    

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Can't trust social media anymore these days, have to check and double check everything they say there. What a mess    

Yep.

[MattBurt]

Rand, my compliments (on the Seven Habits... find)!

Yes, a very nice piece of right wing smear fiction fabricated to suit your agenda. Bravo!

Oops. I was too slow. But it seems a lot of Trump's popularity comes from "facts" derived from similar sources.

[Rand47]

Yep.

Priceless! 

Rand