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Author Topic: What does it take?  (Read 68622 times)

tom b

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What does it take?
« on: July 10, 2016, 12:44:06 am »

Dallas massacre

What does it take for Americans to see that their gun laws are f**ked up?

Depressed,

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Tom Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 01:48:41 am »

... What does it take for Americans to see that their gun laws are f**ked up?

What does it take for non-Americans to see that has nothing to do with gun laws?

Manoli

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 02:18:51 am »

What does it take for non-Americans to see that has nothing to do with gun laws?

No, nothing.

Quote
..as recently as last December, 54 Senate Republicans blocked a bill that would have denied convicted felons, the mentally ill and anyone on a terrorist watch list ( 'a person of interest' in FBI terminology) the legal right to buy weapons and explosives. Those Republicans included all four recent Rep Presidential nominee candidates Rubio, Cruz, Paul and Graham. They also blocked a bill which would have allowed for expanded background checks.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 02:39:25 am »

About a couple of hours ago my San Antonio, Texas local news affiliate had breaking news that shots were fired at the San Antonio Police station.

Police Chief MacManus said there isn't enough information to make a connection to the Dallas shootings and went further to say that the police station has been shot at before in the past also unrelated to current events and didn't elaborate.

I'm a 56 year old native Texan and have never needed a gun, but I have no problems with others having them. However, I think we need to make it difficult to sell certain guns that are powerful enough to pierce a police officer's bullet proof vest.
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tom b

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 03:24:21 am »

"What does it take for non-Americans to see that has nothing to do with gun laws?"

You have got to be joking.

America has mass shootings daily/weekly. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since Port Arthur. Gun control works, public distaste works. Sorry, but what has to happen in America before things change?

Really,
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Tom Brown

AreBee

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 05:08:13 am »

Tom,

Quote
...what has to happen in America before things change?

More people must be killed.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 09:36:40 am »

I sometimes despair that half of the population has IQ lower than average.

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2016, 11:02:42 am »

I sometimes despair that half of the population has IQ lower than average.

Or to put it another way, "The next time you meet someone of average intelligence, pause for a minute to reflect and marvel that 50% of people are even more stupid than this".

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 11:55:41 am »

Damn, Jeremy, you are ruining my bait ;)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 02:52:01 pm »

What does it take for non-Americans to see that has nothing to do with gun laws?

Hi Slobodan,

I'm disheartened by your remark, it suggests that the situation will not improve, on the contrary. If Americans are blind to their own issues, how could they change the situation for the better?

Surely one must understand that one of the issues that led up to this shooting, is racial profiling. That often gets out-of-hand because the suspects, of an every day misdemeanor (but also felonies), do carry guns or are assumed/believed to do so. Police officers with hand on gun, or drawn, mistake the moves or intentions of the person in front of them, and shoot first, then ask. Gun possession of civilians increases the risk of mistakes and accidents, for all concerned.

This is on top of social and ethnic discrimination, which is another problem, but related.

This particular event (it's not really an incident, because it will happen again) also has other tragic aspects to it, some of which will never be fully understood because the assumed perpetrator was killed by a targeted explosion. But it seems that his frustration about ethnic inequality and marginalization, played a role. Having easy access to guns only helped him to vent his anger in the way he did, but no doubt he would have found an alternative means if guns had not been so easy to get hold of.

But one of the core issues is gun possession (leading to over-reaction and accidents, and enable a simple way to exert lethal force), aren't there enough deaths already to prove that?

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 03:20:25 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2016, 03:12:27 pm »

Except, Bart, the overwhelming majority of crime and incidents are caused by ILLEGAL guns, thus nothing to do with gun laws.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 12:26:49 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2016, 03:23:07 pm »

Or to put it another way, "The next time you meet someone of average intelligence, pause for a minute to reflect and marvel that 50% of people are even more stupid than this".

If only the average were higher, sigh. Everybody would be better off.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 03:51:25 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2016, 03:26:36 pm »

Except, Bart, the overwhelming majority of crime and incidents are caused by IILEGAL guns, thus nothing to do with gun laws.

I disagree. It matters none to a police officer whether he/she is shot by a legal or an illegal gun.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2016, 03:42:29 pm »

Non sequitur, Bart.

AreBee

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2016, 03:44:59 pm »

Bart,

Quote
...of

Hmm.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2016, 03:52:27 pm »

Bart,

Hmm.

Thanks Rob, typo corrected.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2016, 03:57:46 pm »

Non sequitur, Bart.

What are you suggesting Slobodan? That changing the law to make all gun possession illegal or legal has the same result, or something else?

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Manoli

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2016, 04:12:32 pm »

... the overwhelming majority of crime and incidents are caused by IILEGAL guns, thus nothing to do with gun laws.

Source ?
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Manoli

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Re: What does it take?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2016, 04:29:08 pm »

NYT:

Quote
'... at least 722 nonself-defense deaths since 2007 were attributable to individuals with legal permits to carry concealed weapons. Concealed carry by citizens has been a soaring phenomenon as states liberalize laws in the name of lowering crime that allow more permits and easier gun access in public places, even schools, churches and restaurants.  There is no central tally of the effects, with states often barring release of concealed-carry data and Congress hewing to the gun lobby’s opposition to research on guns’ effects on public health."

edit:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/11/opinion/concealed-carrys-body-count.html?_r=0
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 04:03:34 am by Manoli »
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