Topic: X1D hands on (Read 38945 times)

ErikKaffehr · « **Reply #40 on:** July 12, 2016, 02:08:00 am »

Hi,

Sony will not add global shutter on the MFD CMOS sensors any soon. That technology is hardly possible today.

What they may add is a silent shutter, where reset and readout slide across the sensor area, acting as two curtains. But, with present technology sweep is slow, like 1/15s or so.

Sony and other vendors work on stacked sensors and those may deliver global shutters, but global shutter is not an add-on solution to today's sensors.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: tjv on July 11, 2016, 04:23:01 pm

It seems to me that the problem with implementing this stuff is that the Sony chip does not support global shutter, and that Hasselblad did not include a FPS.
The global shutter might come in a future, redesigned chip from Sony and I doubt an FPS will ever come. At the moment this is the best they could implement without increasing the thickness of the body (maybe significantly, considering the oversized chip,) and investing a lot of R&D money into designing a new shutter and associated dampening mechanisms.

It is possible that a competitor started designing their (rumored) DMF mirrorless AFTER Sony made a newer chip available, but somehow I doubt it right now. Photokina will tell us...

ErikKaffehr · « **Reply #41 on:** July 12, 2016, 02:11:39 am »

Hi Edmund,

That's a good point… I would expect a new version of the CFV 50c with the new electronics from the H6 and X1D.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: eronald on July 11, 2016, 07:28:03 pm

Seeing the sub $10K price of the CFV 50c back, this issue is not exactly going to impact the sales of the X1D, would be my first thought.

Edmund

BJL · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2016, 05:28:49 am »

Quote from: eronald on July 11, 2016, 07:28:03 pm

Seeing the sub $10K price of the CFV 50c back, this issue is not exactly going to impact the sales of the X1D, would be my first thought.

Indeed, for view camera use it would seem that the most natural choice is a back like the CFV 50c or its successors, already wired for tethering, rather than this camera body with integrated lens mount. There is a hint that Hasselblad thinks so in this quote from http://www.hasselblad.com/digital-backs/cfv-50c

Quote

In addition, the CFV-50c not only allows photographers to exploit V System equipment but various traditional large- format / technical / view cameras too.

razrblck · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2016, 06:48:42 am »

Is the hole at the top of the hotshoe a 2.5mm sync connector?

Joe Towner · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2016, 01:22:16 pm »

Quote from: razrblck on July 12, 2016, 06:48:42 am

Is the hole at the top of the hotshoe a 2.5mm sync connector?

Nope, it's the lock pin for the flash.

DanielStone · « **Reply #45 on:** July 13, 2016, 10:19:42 am »

Put my mitts on it yesterday at Samys in Pasadena. Feels nice in the hand, but the EVF just isn't for me. Seemed small and not to what I thought Hasselblad would include in this level of camera. Lens size seemed disproportionate to the body size.

I guess I'm still on the hunt for a "digital Mamiya 7II" so to speak.

Wish them all the best, I still live the H system, but the X1D just isn't for me

hubell · « **Reply #46 on:** July 13, 2016, 01:32:53 pm »

Quote from: DanielStone on July 13, 2016, 10:19:42 am

Put my mitts on it yesterday at Samys in Pasadena. Feels nice in the hand, but the EVF just isn't for me. Seemed small and not to what I thought Hasselblad would include in this level of camera. Lens size seemed disproportionate to the body size.

I guess I'm still on the hunt for a "digital Mamiya 7II" so to speak.

Wish them all the best, I still live the H system, but the X1D just isn't for me

In hearing about all of the missing features that are "deal killers" on the X1D, I found the following quite amusing and, I think, spot on:
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com.au/2016/07/the-meh-factor-or-why-x-is-deal-killer.html

Theodoros · « **Reply #47 on:** July 13, 2016, 03:25:17 pm »

It is certain that whenever a "game changer" will appear, there will be all shorts of negative comments hopping to negatively affect the market appreciation from the public... The truth in this case, is that a major player in the market has brought out a product that not only is a game changer as far as ergonomics or portability is concerned, but it is as competitively priced too as to steal sales from all shorts of market sections (even from Pentax)...

In reality this is an H6D-50, lucking only the modularity and the mirrorbox of the H6D-50 and then priced at less than 40%... The price is that makes the product not only a game changer because of the design, but additionally a game changer in the field on where the game is played.

Christopher · « **Reply #48 on:** July 13, 2016, 04:02:30 pm »

It might for some. And it is a great camera if you own some Hassi gear. However, why is it changing anything only because it has 7 more MP compared to a Sony ? And costs three times that ?

I really don't get that big of a fuss about it. This might sound a bit over negative, but from the professional and rent studios I know it's not even changing enough to buy it...

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

Theodoros · « **Reply #49 on:** July 13, 2016, 04:45:41 pm »

Quote from: Christopher on July 13, 2016, 04:02:30 pm

However, why is it changing anything only because it has 7 more MP compared to a Sony ? And costs three times that ?

You seem to be setting a new argument yourself and then answering it your self again... Nobody here said that its a game changer "because it offers 7 more MP than Sony and costs 3 times as much"...

In fact there are people buying 50mp MF that costs SIX times as much as a Canon 5ds....

The argument that was set (which makes most believe that this will be a major market success), is that it is the same specified as an H6D-50 (but the optical finder and detachable back) and only costs less than 40% of what the H6D-50 costs... I guess since many buy H6D-50 (or H5D-50, or other -even more expensive- competitive camera) and detach their backs only to clean them and many more use their MF with LV anyway... they'll then prefer to spent (at least) 60% less....

They even have cash left (if they wish - which I doubt) to additionally buy an H6D-50 in three months time when all these (lightly used) S/H H6Ds will flood the market coming from the people that they have replaced them with their H6D-100 orders...

Christopher · « **Reply #50 on:** July 13, 2016, 04:48:04 pm »

And it still DOES NOT do the same thing a back does. So I actually don't care if it is cheaper, because for what It can't do the things I need it to do. If I wouldn't need a back I would buy a mirror less but certainly not one which houses a 2 year old sensor.

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

Theodoros · « **Reply #51 on:** July 13, 2016, 05:17:39 pm »

Quote from: Christopher on July 13, 2016, 04:48:04 pm

And it still DOES NOT do the same thing a back does. So I actually don't care if it is cheaper, because for what It can't do the things I need it to do.

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

Now that's better... it's always better if one doesn't confuse his needs with the market needs... and it's also good information for the rest to know what you do and the areas of what you do that this camera won't fulfill (so that they know the limitations of their buy)...

will you care to be more specific as to explain it then?

Christopher · « **Reply #52 on:** July 13, 2016, 05:24:29 pm »

Don't really think there is anything to explain.

It's a great camera and perhaps a future one for me once we are at a second or third generation. (Depending on what the rest of the industry does.)

It might sound silly, but as being used to 80MP and now 100MP it's hard to see a 50MP as the thing to invest in. For now I'll just stick to my XF and my two digital backs. As long as I don't mind carrying a large heavy backpack when traveling I really don't care.

Let's see what happens and I honestly don't care if who in the end gets the money for a second system. I love the competition because finally we have some movement in the market.

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

eronald · « **Reply #53 on:** July 13, 2016, 05:28:56 pm »

Quote from: hubell on July 13, 2016, 01:32:53 pm

In hearing about all of the missing features that are "deal killers" on the X1D, I found the following quite amusing and, I think, spot on:
http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com.au/2016/07/the-meh-factor-or-why-x-is-deal-killer.html

The X1D is meh: It will not increase my sexual ability more than Viagra, enhance my intelligence more than Modafinil, or diminish my general obnoxiousness any better than Xanax. Also it probably won't improve my pictures. But, now that I think of it, forums are pretty meh too. Apart from some of James early work on RG, and the stuff he posted this week which was an eye-opener on color matching, I don't think anything by anyone who posted on this forum has ever truly improved my very small picturing ability, in the same way as few of the novels I have read in my life seem to have improved my understanding of women, and none has actually made me ... taller

Edmund

ErikKaffehr · « **Reply #54 on:** July 13, 2016, 05:39:52 pm »

Hi,

It has 1/2000s shutter sync, medium format magic and a Hasselblad logo…

Seriously, this is also a question I ask my self. The 44x33 sensor may be a bit to small to give a significant advantage over 24x36 mm.

On the other hand that sensor size may be a very good one, if combined with excellent lenses. Hasselblad seems to intend it to be small. The lenses presented so far seem to be medium aperture, compact and very good.

This is an interesting point. Sony has nice little camera in the Sony A7-series. But, all high quality lenses are large and heavy. Some folks, me included, would prefer high quality lenses with medium apertures. There is some probability that we are going to see new generations of those CMOS sensors from Sony, my guess is that we will see a 100+ MP 44x33mm sensor in a couple of years.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: Christopher on July 13, 2016, 04:02:30 pm

It might for some. And it is a great camera if you own some Hassi gear. However, why is it changing anything only because it has 7 more MP compared to a Sony ? And costs three times that ?

I really don't get that big of a fuss about it. This might sound a bit over negative, but from the professional and rent studios I know it's not even changing enough to buy it...

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

Theodoros · « **Reply #55 on:** July 13, 2016, 05:51:17 pm »

Quote from: Christopher on July 13, 2016, 05:24:29 pm

I love the competition because finally we have some movement in the market.

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

Agreed... but in this case we have to see it first (price wise too) and then call it competition.... and if this is a major (or the dominant) product for MF sales, or if it is the cause for (direct) competition to enter and dominate the market, then every bit of the phrase "game changer" is satisfied...

Theodoros · « **Reply #56 on:** July 13, 2016, 09:10:28 pm »

In the following "hands on review" of Imaging resource http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/hasselblad-x1d/hasselblad-x1dA.HTM One can notice the following most impressive comment:

"I also gleaned a couple of interesting tidbits about Hasselblad's sense of the market for the X1D, and they told me that it is already back ordered for the rest of this year after only one day on the market."

I guess it is a game changer after all....

razrblck · « **Reply #57 on:** July 14, 2016, 02:36:02 am »

I would get it for landscape and some travel, but first it needs more lenses (especially wides). It's small, has a great sensor and the lenses all look crazy sharp. Even if it lacks a lot of the advanced features you'll find in a Sony a7 or a m43 system and it's slower than those, it would give you great images.

The cost is frankly relative. People are willing to pay ungodly amount of money for an Alpa TC (which is nothing more than a well made piece of metal, with a wooden grip that costs as much as the body itself), the X1D seems like a bargain in comparison.

Christopher · « **Reply #58 on:** July 14, 2016, 02:37:25 am »

Or really bad product planing. Only because it is back ordered means nothing without knowing actual figures. There is a huge difference between 1000 and 100000 cameras

Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

hubell · « **Reply #59 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:41:00 am »

The drift of this thread is so typical in internet forums discussing a new camera. The conversation becomes dominated by masters of negativity where there was always ZERO chance from the start that they would ever have purchased the camera. They have lack either the need or the means to buy it (or both), so they obsessively try to tear it down, all the while sanctimoniously saying that competition in the industry is good.

Author Topic: X1D hands on (Read 38945 times)