Brexit

[stamper]

I voted to remain but look on the bright side. The £ has devalued by about 15% which means that hotels are expecting more visitors from abroad and it will deter people leaving the UK on holiday which means more money stays in the UK, which is good. Over one million elderly UK residents staying in Spain and other countries means a lot of taxpayers money is getting drained from the UK economy in the form of pensions. On the day the news broke about leaving a woman was in a local shop nearly in tears telling the shop assistant that she had been resident in the UK for sixteen years and she was worried about deportation. I genuinely felt sorry for her. 

[drmike]

I agree , there are positives and we will make a go of it come what may. It's what we do.

I can't imagine that anyone who has lived here for 16 years being required to leave. She and her family must surely by now be valued members of UK society but someone should reassure people in that situation that they will be welcome to stay. I can think of several people I know in the same position and it would be crazy to ask them to leave.

[stamper]

I agree , there are positives and we will make a go of it come what may. It's what we do.

I can't imagine that anyone who has lived here for 16 years being required to leave. She and her family must surely by now be valued members of UK society but someone should reassure people in that situation that they will be welcome to stay. I can think of several people I know in the same position and it would be crazy to ask them to leave.

Teresa May hinted that people may be deported if reciprocal arrangements aren't made with other countries. In other words tit for tat. One wonders if you are in a foreign country and you own property. If deportation is a reality and you can't sell your property in a hurry, or get a reasonable price, that would be disastrous. Hopefully it won't happen.

[Justinr]

Teresa May hinted that people may be deported if reciprocal arrangements aren't made with other countries. In other words tit for tat. One wonders if you are in a foreign country and you own property. If deportation is a reality and you can't sell your property in a hurry, or get a reasonable price, that would be disastrous. Hopefully it won't happen.

The world is too small for such squabbles nowadays. We have been preached globalisation for at least twenty years now and  companies, families and individuals have put down foreign roots around the world as a result. The politicians may strut about trying to frighten people but they will eventually learn that the old politics of setting states against each other just won't work because we are so much closer and better informed about other countries and their people, as well as much more reliant upon commercial arrangements. We can see this happening in the middle east; time was when the US and its allies could get away with doing what the hell they wanted out there but now policy is under much closer scrutiny and is intensely debated and questioned as never before. It makes the leaders look weak as a result but I think on balance that is to be welcomed.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Teresa May hinted that people may be deported if reciprocal arrangements aren't made with other countries. In other words tit for tat. One wonders if you are in a foreign country and you own property. If deportation is a reality and you can't sell your property in a hurry, or get a reasonable price, that would be disastrous. Hopefully it won't happen.

She did, but only in the context of a failure to agree reciprocal arrangements for UK subject living in other EU countries. To have given a guarantee that non-British EU citizens could remain here come what may would have been rather weak. In reality, it would seem unlikely that any non-national who has been living for a long time in the UK or in an EU country after the UK actually leaves the EU would be required to leave that country.

Jeremy

[stamper]

She did, but only in the context of a failure to agree reciprocal arrangements for UK subject living in other EU countries. To have given a guarantee that non-British EU citizens could remain here come what may would have been rather weak. In reality, it would seem unlikely that any non-national who has been living for a long time in the UK or in an EU country after the UK actually leaves the EU would be required to leave that country.

Jeremy

It has already started. The highlands of Scotland are desperately in need of residents.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/01/australian-family-facing-deportation-from-uk-vow-to-keep-fighting

[drmike]

I thought that guy only came in on a student visa which is rather different.

[pegelli]

It has already started. The highlands of Scotland are desperately in need of residents.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/01/australian-family-facing-deportation-from-uk-vow-to-keep-fighting

What has this to do with the UK leaving the EU? As far as I'm aware Australia isn't a member from the EU 
I have no opinion on whether they should stay or not, but in my mind it's just business as usual.
I think every EU citizen living in the UK has, in the absolute worst case, still ~2,5 years before they would be summoned to leave. Same with UK citizens living in the other EU countries.

[stamper]

What has this to do with the UK leaving the EU? As far as I'm aware Australia isn't a member from the EU 
I have no opinion on whether they should stay or not, but in my mind it's just business as usual.
I think every EU citizen living in the UK has, in the absolute worst case, still ~2,5 years before they would be summoned to leave. Same with UK citizens living in the other EU countries.

Did you read the article or see coverage on TV. They came to the UK on a promise they could stay. After departing for the UK the UK government changed the rules and applied it retrospectively stating they must leave if a suitable job wasn't offered which wasn't the case when they came. In a nutshell they went back on a deal. I posted the link in context to the government not being trustworthy in their promises which would be the case whether it was with the EU or other countries. To sum up I - and others - don't trust the government in respect to ANY immigration issues.

[Justinr]

What has this to do with the UK leaving the EU? As far as I'm aware Australia isn't a member from the EU 
I have no opinion on whether they should stay or not, but in my mind it's just business as usual.
I think every EU citizen living in the UK has, in the absolute worst case, still ~2,5 years before they would be summoned to leave. Same with UK citizens living in the other EU countries.

Can anyone honestly see that ever happening? Globalisation has meant the interconnections between countries are greater and more complex than ever before and it will be business interests lobbying behind the scenes that will ensure there is still free movement of people around Europe and the UK.

Just as a matter of interest there are 112,000 British living in Ireland and 430,000 Irish born living in the UK.

[pegelli]

Can anyone honestly see that ever happening?

I can't see that happening either (and surely hope it doesn't happen), that's why I called it a "worst case scenario", not an "expected scenario".

[Justinr]

Did you read the article or see coverage on TV. They came to the UK on a promise they could stay. After departing for the UK the UK government changed the rules and applied it retrospectively stating they must leave if a suitable job wasn't offered which wasn't the case when they came. In a nutshell they went back on a deal. I posted the link in context to the government not being trustworthy in their promises which would be the case whether it was with the EU or other countries. To sum up I - and others - don't trust the government in respect to ANY immigration issues.

I wonder if the concern for their position would be quite so great if they just happened to be of a different colour or religion?

[stamper]

I wonder if the concern for their position would be quite so great if they just happened to be of a different colour or religion?

Impossible to answer??? Why did you think to ask?

[Justinr]

Impossible to answer??? Why did you think to ask?

Just idle curiosity.

[pegelli]

Did you read the article or see coverage on TV. They came to the UK on a promise they could stay. After departing for the UK the UK government changed the rules and applied it retrospectively stating they must leave if a suitable job wasn't offered which wasn't the case when they came. In a nutshell they went back on a deal. I posted the link in context to the government not being trustworthy in their promises which would be the case whether it was with the EU or other countries. To sum up I - and others - don't trust the government in respect to ANY immigration issues.

As I said I have no opinion if it would be right for them to stay or not, my only point was it didn't have anything to do with Brexit.
And I did read the article which says "The government announced the cancellation of the post-study work visa scheme in March 2011, three months before the Brains arrived in Scotland.
Gregg Brain said they applied and had been accepted for the scheme in 2010, and did not become aware of the changes to the rules until two years later, shortly before they came into effect."So it wasn't changed after they came, it was changed after they got accepted and before they came. Whether that is enough to not trust the government in ANY immigration issue is a personal choice.

[stamper]

As I said I have no opinion if it would be right for them to stay or not, my only point was it didn't have anything to do with Brexit.
And I did read the article which says "The government announced the cancellation of the post-study work visa scheme in March 2011, three months before the Brains arrived in Scotland.
Gregg Brain said they applied and had been accepted for the scheme in 2010, and did not become aware of the changes to the rules until two years later, shortly before they came into effect."So it wasn't changed after they came, it was changed after they got accepted and before they came. Whether that is enough to not trust the government in ANY immigration issue is a personal choice.

Unlike yourself I live in the UK. Not a personal remark but there was a lot of TV coverage that explained the situation. The Tories in particular have a bad track record on treating immigrants, asylum seekers and others. They planned to cut the immigrant level to "tens of thousands" but the amount increased to hundreds of thousands. Asylum seekers in Scotland - Uk responsibility -  have had a hard time.

http://104.46.54.198/media-centre/news/2013/dec/25-increase-child-asylum-seekers-detention

Locking up children is disgusting, some for up to a year.

[brianrybolt]

Unlike yourself I live in the UK. Not a personal remark but there was a lot of TV coverage that explained the situation. The Tories in particular have a bad track record on treating immigrants, asylum seekers and others. They planned to cut the immigrant level to "tens of thousands" but the amount increased to hundreds of thousands. Asylum seekers in Scotland - Uk responsibility -  have had a hard time.

http://104.46.54.198/media-centre/news/2013/dec/25-increase-child-asylum-seekers-detention

Locking up children is disgusting, some for up to a year.

+1    Agree, it's shocking and shows a deep lack of humanity.

[jfirneno]

Unlike yourself I live in the UK. Not a personal remark but there was a lot of TV coverage that explained the situation. The Tories in particular have a bad track record on treating immigrants, asylum seekers and others. They planned to cut the immigrant level to "tens of thousands" but the amount increased to hundreds of thousands. Asylum seekers in Scotland - Uk responsibility -  have had a hard time.

http://104.46.54.198/media-centre/news/2013/dec/25-increase-child-asylum-seekers-detention

Locking up children is disgusting, some for up to a year.

Gee,

Can't somebody else take the refugees for a while.  How about alphabetical order (or reverse alphabetical order).  Maybe Afghanistan, Albania and Algeria can take a turn (or Zimbabwe and Zambia, whichever order you prefer).  Eventually it'll roll around to the U countries again.

[stamper]

Gee,

Can't somebody else take the refugees for a while.  How about alphabetical order (or reverse alphabetical order).  Maybe Afghanistan, Albania and Algeria can take a turn (or Zimbabwe and Zambia, whichever order you prefer).  Eventually it'll roll around to the U countries again.

I take it you are being flippant? People are leaving those countries in large numbers. I am not a supporter of Merkel's  politics but I admire her for her stance with respect to refugees.

[jfirneno]

I take it you are being flippant? People are leaving those countries in large numbers. I am not a supporter of Merkel's  politics but I admire her for her stance with respect to refugees.

I'm being flippant but the point is serious.  Unrestricted immigration is unsustainable.  Either it has to be controlled rationally or it will lead to very unfortunate consequences for all involved.  The resources of the first world countries are finite and at the moment close to exhaustion.  To ignore this in a democratic society will inevitably lead to changes in who runs the country.  Merkel is only the most obvious case.