Brexit

[scyth]

they called themselves Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Czechia and Slovakia

[pegelli]

Czechia and Slovakia

Yup, I only looked at the EU website how they called their member states, which is what I wrote. Probably not fully accurate (as more stuff that's coming from the EU)

If you look at the official country government websites they call themselves Czeck Republic and Slovac Republic

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Both names are correct. Czechia is to the Czech Republic as France is to the French Republic, Russia to the Russian Federation, and Germany to the Federal Republic of Germany, for instance.

At this stage (the news is from April), it is just a proposal. If approved by the parliament, the alternative name will be logged with the U.N. Both long and short forms will be official then.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

You're probably right, Slobodan. You know that part of the world a lot better than I do. But they're talking about it.

I was just teasing you, Russ 

Czechoslovakia split back in 1993, 11 years before becoming EU members. However, human memory is resiliant to change, so it is not uncommon to still use the joint name. As a matter of fact, as I attempt to write "Czechia," my auto-correct immediately jumps in, suggesting "Czechoslovakia."

On a related note, when both countries still existed, and I would say I am from Yugoslavia, many foreigners, particularly Americans, would reply with a variant of "Ah, yes, Prague is such a lovely city." 

[RSL]

You got me, Slobodan. It's the Czech leader who's talking about a Czexit. Don't know who'll be next, but I know there'll be others before very long.

[drmike]

You got me, Slobodan. It's the Czech leader who's talking about a Czexit. Don't know who'll be next, but I know there'll be others before very long.

Without wishing to be combative what evidence supports this opinion? Any nation using the Euro would find it very hard to leave I'd imagine. The bonds must be very tight in such cases. If they were not I wonder if Greece wouldn't have already been chucked out

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

A touch of humor:

[RSL]

Hi Mike, This is from a newsfeed:

Czech President Milos Zeman says he wants his country to hold a referendum on the country's membership in the 28-nation European Union and in NATO following the vote in Britain to leave the EU.

Zeman said he would personally vote to remain because the Czech Republic benefits from being an EU member. He says "I don't agree with those who want to leave the European Union. But I'll do all I can that a referendum takes place and they have a chance to express their view."

Zeman has often attacked the EU, especially its handling of the continent's refugee crisis.

The Czech Republic currently has no law that would make it possible to hold a nationwide referendum but a draft of such a law is ready for debate in Parliament.

You can google it.

[drmike]

Thanks Russ. Sounds like a good politician promising to do something the law says he can't actually do There are I think some mutterings in other countries but I personally doubt that it will come to much. Talk is cheap - usually

Mike

[Justinr]

And you thought the British were handling this badly??

No negotiations until you're out (I'm not sure if this works outside the UK)

Apparently we must invoke Article 50, leave and then negotiate trade terms. You could not make it up.

This is in part what seems to be wrong with the EU and once again riles the British people, well at least one.

Mike

Not just you, many others as well. There has been a seething discontent about the way the EU is run in Britain for a long time, the migrant issue may have brought it to a head but that is not the sole reason for the UK's vote, not by a long shot.

We tend to think of the EU as a remote organisation that exists elsewhere and is so elevated above normal society that we do not really engage with it. That is a big part of the problem, but when you do engage with the actual mechanics of the set up it becomes frighteningly  clear that these people are not interested in democracy and benign administration but are out to build a power base and feather their own nests, after all, why should they be different from any other set of politicians? A major problem is that despite the powers they accrue to themselves they are hardly accountable and the bit we do vote for, the EU parliament, is pretty much toothless.

The EU may also set its stall out as a creator of legislation that is consistent and logical, but again when you look at its history this very soon breaks down and many of the directives are so loosely termed that can mean anything to anyone and the EU itself will decide how they are to be enforced to suit their current ambitions, and they are quite capable of contradicting themselves in doing so. And then there are the commissioners themselves, Junckers is over fond of the drink and has appeared drunk on public occasions while the Irish commissioner's name is often associated with a scandal in the country that was deliberately ignored by the government of Enda Kenny. This despite an official enquiry finding a minister to be guilty of accepting bribes for the awarding of Ireland's mobile licence! I know its only two of the 28 but it is not a good start.

I don't blame the UK for wanting to be rid of the wretched circus.

 

[drmike]

Not keen on the EU then Justin

I think you do identify what many people find frustrating about the EU which could be so good if it worked properly. I'd still rather be in and fight than out but we'll make it work whatever comes along.

[Justinr]

Not keen on the EU then Justin

I think you do identify what many people find frustrating about the EU which could be so good if it worked properly. I'd still rather be in and fight than out but we'll make it work whatever comes along.

I'd agree that there is much good in the basic idea of a loose confederation of countries wishing to ease trade and and travel between themselves but an undemocratic superstate is something else entirely. Reform is badly needed and if Brexit does not provide a sufficient shock for that to happen then I really don't know what will. TBH I think the present commission will see the ship sink under their feet rather than change anything, what have they got to lose? They'll all have fed well off the public teat and no doubt will have their finances sorted as they approach retirement, why upset such a comfortable life?

[drmike]

Added to which it's that old thing that no-one rocks the status quo as they can see their turn to get their snout in the trough arriving in due course. An eternal conflict however. The politicians are driven by short termism so they get elected and the bureaucrats are not accountable. It can be fixed but it's sad to think the UK has to leave to prompt it. This is definitely a bit the EU doesn't get, that people like us really resent how the 'club' is run and feel powerless to change it. I'd still rather be in though

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I don't blame the UK for wanting to be rid of the wretched circus.

Hi Justin,

In exchange for what?

Remember that the people were lied to by your own politicians about the facts (costs of staying inflated, benefits of leaving exaggerated, and plain lies), and they even didn't have a plan how to proceed.

No, populism has won, the UK has lost.

Cheers,
Bart

[stamper]

Hi Justin,

In exchange for what?

Remember that the people were lied to by your own politicians about the facts (costs of staying inflated, benefits of leaving exaggerated, and plain lies), and they even didn't have a plan how to proceed.

No, populism has won, the UK has lost.

Cheers,
Bart

Agreed.

[Justinr]

Hi Justin,

In exchange for what?

Remember that the people were lied to by your own politicians about the facts (costs of staying inflated, benefits of leaving exaggerated, and plain lies), and they even didn't have a plan how to proceed.

No, populism has won, the UK has lost.

Cheers,
Bart

Both sides lied their backsides off, why it is considered that it was just the leave campaign that were economical with the truth is beyond me. We were told for instance that the pound would evaporate into thin air and their would be carnage on the stock market, what actually happened? There was a bit of profit taking and then the markets settled slightly below where they were and some claim that this was a natural adjustment that was overdue anyway.

The alternative? Well there are plenty of countries outside of the EU wanting to do business with Britain but first of all the EU has got to climb down from its high horse and accept that they need to sort their act out, German industry won't be happy with the difficulties imposed in reaching one of their important markets and the relative silence of Ms Merkel is telling, she is letting the dogs of the commission do the barking while waiting to see what form the fall out takes. Expect change on that front over the summer as the god's of Brussels get their heads around what is happening. It is far from a black or white, in or out situation that many would pretend.

[Manoli]

Both sides lied their backsides off, why it is considered that it was just the leave campaign that were economical with the truth is beyond me. We were told for instance that the pound would evaporate into thin air and their would be carnage on the stock market,

That's not a lie - that's a prediction. Different.

[Manoli]

No, populism has won, the UK has lost.

Hi Bart,

Not yet.
And it won't have done until Parliament so decides.

ITM, it's instructive to see how the UK voted rather than just focus on the narrow margin of those blindly in favour of 'Leave'.

Nearly three quarters (73%) of 18 to 24 year-olds voted to remain, falling to under two thirds (62%) among 25-34s , whereas over 60% of those aged over 65 voted to leave.

A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.

The AB social group (broadly speaking, professionals and managers) were the only social group among whom a majority voted to remain (57%). whilst nearly two thirds of C2DEs ** (64%) voted to leave the EU.

** (Semi-skilled and unskilled manual workers, casual or lowest grade workers, unemployed, pensioners, and others who depend on the welfare state for their income)

Of those polled lately, 7% already feeling buyer's remorse and over 66% believe that Article 50 should not be triggered before a general election is held.

There are many already feeling 'Buyer's Remorse', including Kelvin McKenzie, one-time editor of the Sun - a stout Leave campaigner who has now publicly done a 'volte-face'. Here's the much publicised email he received from Alastair Campbell, thanking him for his efforts.

Never mind buyer’s remorse, you should feel totally f***ing ashamed to have been for so long part of a giant propaganda machine which has helped the country make a potentially self-destructive decision that future generations will have to live with when you and I are long gone.

Murdoch has been a complete poison in our national life and you have helped so much. And because you are well sorted it will not hit you nearly as hard as those you and yours have persuaded to make the decision they did.

But hey it’s all a bit of fun, eh?
F*** off.

[Justinr]

That's not a lie - that's a prediction. Different.

Weren't they all predictions?

[Justinr]

Hi Bart,

Not yet.
And it won't have done until Parliament so decides.

ITM, it's instructive to see how the UK voted rather than just focus on the narrow margin of those blindly in favour of 'Leave'.

Of those polled lately, 7% already feeling buyer's remorse and over 66% believe that Article 50 should not be triggered before a general election is held.

There are many already feeling 'Buyer's Remorse', including Kelvin McKenzie, one-time editor of the Sun - a stout Leave campaigner who has now publicly done a 'volte-face'. Here's the much publicised email he received from Alastair Campbell, thanking him for his efforts.

I know I know, democracy sucks eh!

BTW, I was talking to a fellow who's company did some polling of their own in the run up to the vote and they predicted a higher leave vote by a couple of per cent. It was online and part of their day to day business so they didn't go public with it but it underlines the idea that this focus on what the younger voters did is a little bit nonsensical, how many of them actually voted, didn't that cohort show the lowest turnout overall? It is some what misleading to say the young voted to remain when a very large number didn't vote at all.  Not quite a lie perhaps, but disingenuous at least.