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Author Topic: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D  (Read 43139 times)

Joe Towner

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2016, 03:24:06 pm »

You're forgetting the other reason to pre-announce - control the messaging around the product as a whole.  Hass did an amazing job keeping it under wraps as long as they did, and had it not been for a seller in NYC, we'd have been fully surprised.  By saying here's what we have, and when it should be available lets them get it into hands as beta units, much like in 3 days when it'll be here in Seattle.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2016, 03:39:26 pm »

Hi,

They are prereleasing a product without final specifications.

Best regards
Erik

You're forgetting the other reason to pre-announce - control the messaging around the product as a whole.  Hass did an amazing job keeping it under wraps as long as they did, and had it not been for a seller in NYC, we'd have been fully surprised.  By saying here's what we have, and when it should be available lets them get it into hands as beta units, much like in 3 days when it'll be here in Seattle.
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eronald

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I would agree that you are doing what you should be doing because I notice the image and then I read the post, which of course is interesting, you're preaching to the choir, and then I stare at the image, and then I look again at the image, and frankly then I don't really care about the post anymore.

Were you intentionally going for the selfie/paparazzi impression on this picture? Did you use a blue awning/scrim above the car, with a light behind it to get the blue reflections? Or flash onto it?  How did you get the blue/green rim reflections on the insides of the back window rims? The reduced number of colors for this picture is impressive, it looks like it could be turned into a lithograph.

Edmund

PS. Re low-end video, I'm starting to wonder whether the equipment wasn't made a certain way initially, and overpriced, so as not to scare the crews, and enforce the I-got-production-money pecking order, and now the gloves are coming off. The FS5 with its built-in stepless ND and Raw output at $5K serve a strong warning that  buyers can now demand cheap and flexible.




I can only speak for myself, but when it comes to digital cameras, still and motion I think I've been trained to feel I "need" the next or the newest.

When I add it up having owned a dozen digital motion cameras, two and a half times that in digital still cameras, it finally made me pause.

I think we all know that it's a tough market for camera makers and they're all looking for an edge or a slot or a way to move me up, but some of the pricing vs. features seem off.

With motion cameras they seem to be going through the same gestation period that still cameras did a little less than a decade ago.

I'm not against commerce or making as much as you can, but is there really $10,000 more parts in a Canon C100 II than the C300 II?  Lately Canon just shaved $4,000 off the c300 II and I'll bet they still make good money off of it.

How many cameras does it take to make a photograph?   4.   

The one you sold to because you ordered the new one, the one you rented while you wait for the new one to come in (which will be delivered the day after the shoot) and a backup, which you'll never need unless you don't have a backup.

If your shooting still and motion multiply that by 2x or 3x.

Anyway, we just finished a campaign and I was set on buying a C300II for the project as it was multi media.    I had it all in the cart ready to push the button and I thought, what is wrong with me (well a lot actually) but I have three large 4k cameras, one small 4k camera, 4 HD cameras and lenses everywhere.

It kind of hit me that I didn't need the 5% difference the C300 would give me and well I went back to doing what i should be doing.



IMO

BC
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 05:41:36 pm by eronald »
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eronald

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J,

 Sorry to ask insistently, but how d'you get those blue reflections? I'll remember the tinted reflection trick, it's a new one for me.
 The color keying is very neat.

Edmund


The selfie look?   

Your partially right.  This campaign's emphasis is to give a social media look.  Not totally manicured, not everything placed within inches, but your right think professional selfie.

The colors come from my partner/stylist/producer Ann Rutherford.   Ann always gives something to key on, like the green jacket and glasses and the black gloves.  The green gives me my overall target, the hands in that position would not work without the gloves.

There is very little post work on this image, nearly everything is out of lightroom, especially the colors.  Lightroom has it moments, but it's so adjustable you can do some amazing things with color and tone and the only photoshop work is about 5 minutes to clean up a few stray hairs and to clean up a few bumps.

With this scene, and others, there will be more going on than just a still, but i'll show that later.

This is from a different scene, but like above it will be more than 1 image and it was shot fast, all of it very fast, all the lights or fill usually handheld, 99% of the post work in lightroom.



IMO

BC
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hjulenissen

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pre-announcement
« Reply #124 on: July 07, 2016, 04:01:15 am »

I have to admit that whenever a manufacturer release a consumer product with immediate availability, I think highly of them. They seem to be in control.

Whenever a manufacturer release a consumer product to be available in 6-12 months, I am thinking "desparation".

Possible exception for certain professional products where their customers actually need to do some time-consuming preparation before buying the product.

-h
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: pre-announcement
« Reply #125 on: July 07, 2016, 04:35:09 am »

I have to admit that whenever a manufacturer release a consumer product with immediate availability, I think highly of them. They seem to be in control.

Indeed. Now it's an interesting MBA case study question to identify the optimal time btwn annoucement and availability to optimize revenue over the life cycle of a product.

It relates to production capacity, demand forecast, logistics,...

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #126 on: July 07, 2016, 04:49:40 am »

Btw, there samples available at DPreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/4962516765/hasselblad-x1d-pre-production-samples

I love the highlights/midtones, the way details are rendered and the bokeh from the 90mm. I am less impressed by the transitions to deep shadows as soon as the ISO goes up a bit. It could be the jpgs, but it is really harsh blocked blacks and pretty noisy also. On that aspect, I am getting much better from my D810 at those ISOs I believe.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #127 on: July 07, 2016, 05:23:13 am »

Btw, there samples available at DPreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/4962516765/hasselblad-x1d-pre-production-samples

I love the highlights/midtones, the way details are rendered and the bokeh from the 90mm. I am less impressed by the transitions to deep shadows as soon as the ISO goes up a bit. It could be the jpgs, but it is really harsh blocked blacks and pretty noisy also. On that aspect, I am getting much better from my D810 at those ISOs I believe.

Cheers,
Bernard

The Nikon has been around for longer :)

Even though I was born a sceptic, I would be inclined to give Hassy the benefit of doubt, and expect exactly the same renderings as the H5D50c and H6D50c.

One can disagree about the pricepoint, body features, etc, but I think our friend Doug would agree that *all* the medium format companies have regularly delivered impeccable and sometimes even superb file quality. In the end that's what they have always been selling.

Edmund
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 07:25:25 am by eronald »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #128 on: July 07, 2016, 08:37:48 am »

Hi,

I also felt the darks are murky, but it's har to tell from jpegs. How much is dependent on processing? How is the image exposed?

Best regards
Erik


Btw, there samples available at DPreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/4962516765/hasselblad-x1d-pre-production-samples

I love the highlights/midtones, the way details are rendered and the bokeh from the 90mm. I am less impressed by the transitions to deep shadows as soon as the ISO goes up a bit. It could be the jpgs, but it is really harsh blocked blacks and pretty noisy also. On that aspect, I am getting much better from my D810 at those ISOs I believe.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BJL

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for sensor size names, actual sizes in mm work for me: 36x24, 44x33, 54x41
« Reply #129 on: July 07, 2016, 12:00:48 pm »

It seems pretty clear we're done with evolving sensor sizes. Both 33x44 and 41x54 are here to stay.
That looks likely, and if not, I expect that it will be because one of those fades away and the other become the universal larger-than-36x24mm sensor format.

I would really suggest that P1, Hassy and Pentax sit around a table and define an official naming for these 2 sizes. . . .

I suggest the following and am willing to discuss the sharing of my IP. :)
- 33x44: MX
- 41x44: LX
I severely doubt that those companies would standardize on some total meaningless names inspired by Nikon's quirky format naming!  (Also, we already have too many X's in too many places.)

More likely, and to me more reasonable, would be following the pattern long used for formats larger than 36x24mm: simply using approximate sensor dimensions, dropping the unit name.  Large format film uses inches (5x4, 7x5, 10x8), medium format film uses cm (645, 6x6, 6x7); for sensors I propose mm.

Then the three largest sensor formats could be called 36x24, 44x33, 54x41.

I note that in some parts of the world, 36x24mm film format has long been referred to in this way, as 36x24.
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landscapephoto

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #130 on: July 07, 2016, 04:04:20 pm »

Btw, there samples available at DPreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/4962516765/hasselblad-x1d-pre-production-samples

I love the highlights/midtones, the way details are rendered and the bokeh from the 90mm. I am less impressed by the transitions to deep shadows as soon as the ISO goes up a bit. It could be the jpgs, but it is really harsh blocked blacks and pretty noisy also. On that aspect, I am getting much better from my D810 at those ISOs I believe.

I don't like the bokeh from the samples taken with the 90mm in dpreview. I find the image bellow particularly telling. It is taken at f/8.



We see a wall with books behind the main subject. I find that the rendering of the out of focus area is extremely "busy", as if the image was vibrating. The writing on the books is not recognisable. Some blue/white elements on the wall are doubled. Looking at the telephone specular highlights in full resolution, one sees that the octagonal shapes of the aperture have an intense rim, which is considered the mark of poor "bokeh". It seems that this particular lens was optimised for sharpness, but not for "bokeh".

It remains to be seen whether the 45mm and future 30mm are similar in their rendering, but the 90mm is not to my taste.
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eronald

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Yes, there's this aquamarine cyan fishbowl effect in this shot, with the model's drowning eyes giving the key color. And when I look at the previous images, we have the green lens-eyes of the green-leather alien, and what look like they might be the babyblues of Mr. Denim, each key in its frame.  This new set of images is really interesting. I also find they are emotionally alienating but that is probably millenial meets baby boomer.

I'm deconstructing the images a bit so I have something I can take away from them - I don't claim to be right about it.

Impressive work!

Edmund


There is no simple answer for this as it's all scene, subject dependent.   Mostly we use some mixed light.  As I mentioned the look is professional social media.

I find the spot, like the talent by the stairs which had a great deal of practical tungsten light, we have a series of lights that can be handheld, in this case the blue comes from a squeezed down daylight led that works kind of like a fresnel and we use it to accent the blue.  For the face it's a shiny board. 

The shot below wasn't planned but done in the same way.  I say the talent taking a selifie of herself in the large mirror in our studio, so we quickly added a tungsten fresnel with some spun and shot it about as fast as i write this.



Then use lightroom to accent the colors and channels for accents for a real but stylized look.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 05:18:24 pm by eronald »
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NickT

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- I don't claim to be right about it.

Edmund

Edmund!!! Are you ok?
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eronald

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Edmund!!! Are you ok?

Er, I've run out of acid for my pen tonight, but I think I'll get some more in tomorrow :)
Everybody in town is in a good mood tonight, as the French won their game; horns going off etc, I think I can just hear Champs Elysés turning into a street party. Actually, I think I'll go and look at it.

Edmund
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 05:59:34 pm by eronald »
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BobShaw

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #134 on: July 07, 2016, 07:19:28 pm »

Changing the title of a thread takes Hijacking a thread to a new level.
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eronald

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Re: Some reflections on forum practice
« Reply #135 on: July 07, 2016, 08:13:54 pm »

Changing the title of a thread takes Hijacking a thread to a new level.

When it's inevitable, relax and enjoy it :)

Clearly you never participated in IRC, with scripts, bots, instant channel bans, and incessant channel topic changes. IRC was the place one went to download stuff before P2P got invented.

btw here's what tonight looks like in Paris
http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/football/euro-2016/en-images-euro-2016-la-folie-s-empare-des-champs-elysees-08-07-2016-5949795.php
Edmund
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 05:59:06 am by eronald »
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BJL

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thread titles versus post titles
« Reply #136 on: July 08, 2016, 05:00:56 am »

Changing the title of a thread takes Hijacking a thread to a new level.
Changing the title of a thread would be confusing.  On the other hand, changing the title of a post makes sense to me when the topic has drifted far from the original one, to have a post title that more accurately describes that particular post. The thread as a whole still appears in the lists of threads under the title of the original post.  I think that is why this forum software allows the author of each post to give it an informative "sub-title".
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Rob C

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There is no simple answer for this as it's all scene, subject dependent.   Mostly we use some mixed light.  As I mentioned the look is professional social media.

I find the spot, like the talent by the stairs which had a great deal of practical tungsten light, we have a series of lights that can be handheld, in this case the blue comes from a squeezed down daylight led that works kind of like a fresnel and we use it to accent the blue.  For the face it's a shiny board. 

The shot below wasn't planned but done in the same way.  I say the talent taking a selifie of herself in the large mirror in our studio, so we quickly added a tungsten fresnel with some spun and shot it about as fast as i write this.



Then use lightroom to accent the colors and channels for accents for a real but stylized look.

IMO

BC



Hey, sorry for the events of last night in Dallas; I hope you were somewhere else, and nobody close to you affected by the tragedy.

Take care, man.

Rob C

ErikKaffehr

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Thanks James and thanks Rob,

Take care. To bad we have to live with this kind of violence…

Best regards
Erik


Thank you Rob.   Yes we are in Dallas this week and were 4 to 5 blocks away from the scene.   I know a lot of the police officers and don't know exactly who was slain as they have not released all the names but knew some of the police that responded.

It's a very sad day for all people for so many reasons.

We're shooting on Monday and we called all the crew and agents and asked them if they wanted to continue and they responded yes, they won't let this stop their lives, though it is very strange right now.

Once again thanks.

James
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hubell

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Re: Some reflections on the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #139 on: July 08, 2016, 03:05:47 pm »

Changing the title of a thread takes Hijacking a thread to a new level.

I could not agree more. I can think of a multitude of words to describe it.
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