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Author Topic: "Please Fix Lightroom"  (Read 44024 times)

ButchM

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2016, 03:11:41 pm »


Hasn't anyone found this out in all the tutorials, 800 page Martin Evening books and YouTube videos? Come on! Anyone?

No, you won't find out how to turn off any function that does not have the capability of being turned off in ANY reference material ... for ANY software solution.

Why would there be books, tutorials or videos explaining how to turn something off ... that can't be turned off?
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2016, 03:16:22 pm »

Nope, because whoever told you that probably didn't know what it's called and without due diligence on your part, you just believed that's what it is called. I've got a number of books on LR, I can't find any that use that term for the Undo message you complain about. Best I could find, searching a PDF (LR Missing FAQ from Victoria Bampton) has ONE and only 1 inclusion of the term bezel:

• In Loupe view there’s a bezel with editing controls.


As the Chinese proverb says: "The first step towards genius is calling things by their proper name".

The best I could recollect it might have been a software designer that called it a "Bezel". I'm going to start calling it the undo/redo lozenge.

So you couldn't find an Adobe official name for this GUI element in all the books available, Andrew?
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digitaldog

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2016, 03:16:33 pm »

No, you won't find out how to turn off any function that does not have the capability of being turned off in ANY reference material ... for ANY software solution.
Especially using a term that's made up (bezel).
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pegelli

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2016, 03:18:23 pm »

In my version (6.6) the "bezel" shows up and automatically disappears after a few seconds. It now also tells you what you undid or redid which makes it more useful.
It never entered my mind to try and turn it off and don't think this is a big deal, but YMMV.
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john beardsworth

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2016, 03:18:30 pm »

If you told people something was a bezel it probably wouldn't help them know what it was or help them use Lightroom.

But the official name for this information panel is indeed a bezel, even if many people (me included) had never noticed the word before hearing it used by Adobe. It's used three times in the SDK documentation under LrDialogs.showBezel, for example.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2016, 03:18:59 pm »

No, you won't find out how to turn off any function that does not have the capability of being turned off in ANY reference material ... for ANY software solution.

Why would there be books, tutorials or videos explaining how to turn something off ... that can't be turned off?

How about a GUI exploded view diagram naming every LR graphical element? That doesn't exist?

I know it can't be turned off. I'ld at least like to know what it's called.
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digitaldog

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2016, 03:19:10 pm »

The best I could recollect it might have been a software designer that called it a "Bezel". I'm going to start calling it the undo/redo lozenge.
So you couldn't find an Adobe official name for this GUI element in all the books available, Andrew?
Well it's not Bezel Tim so hopefully you'll understand the confusion you caused for various posters here attempting to help you! And no, neither of us will find an official Adobe name that someone else made up that you took as factual.



bez·el
ˈbezəl/Submit
noun
a grooved ring holding the glass or plastic cover of a watch face or other instrument in position.
a groove holding the crystal of a watch or the stone of a gem in its setting.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2016, 03:28:27 pm »

I would think something that flashes on the preview for every edit performed is not a minor graphical element that can be ignored to the point of not having a name for it.

I know what edit I performed. I don't need it told to me by flashing a black lozenge shaped icon obscuring my view every time I hit Command Z. Why it's an annoyance is that once it flashes on/off it causes my eyes to change focus on the area I'm editing and sometimes that area is right underneath the lozenge icon.

I found another way to avoid this using ACR's Snapshot feature. LR includes the creation of the Snapshot in the History State which flashes the lozenge doing an A/B edit comparison using Command Z. I could just click on the Snapshot but I have the history state collapsed and I have to open it by hovering my cursor on the far left edge of LR's frame.

In ACR I just click on each saved Snapshot and I see the edits change without affecting my focus.

You all can dismiss it as much as you want. It's an annoyance to me.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 03:32:36 pm by Tim Lookingbill »
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ButchM

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2016, 03:34:19 pm »


You all can dismiss it as much as you want. It's an annoyance to me.

As I shared earlier ... there is already a proposed idea to address this ... make your thoughts known to the folks who can actually address the annoyance.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_avoid_status_messages_on_images
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digitaldog

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #109 on: June 28, 2016, 03:41:00 pm »


I would think something that flashes on the preview for every edit performed is not a minor graphical element that can be ignored to the point of not having a name for it.
You used a name that doesn't exist for this on-screen text and did a poor job describing it as 'flashing' before providing the screen capture. Multiple poster's were confused by what you were asking about hence, OUR collective difficulty in assisting you. Further, I don't see anyone yet, besides you, that find this to be such an egregious UI burden.
Seems you probably shouldn’t upgrade to a newer version of LR or even continue to use the version you have; you seem mighty upset by how it operates.

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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #110 on: June 28, 2016, 03:44:26 pm »

As I shared earlier ... there is already a proposed idea to address this ... make your thoughts known to the folks who can actually address the annoyance.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_avoid_status_messages_on_images

Butch, years of past attempts posting feedback issues with Adobe apps never brought fruit in future upgrades so I don't see how my 2¢ is going to make a difference. But thanks for providing that link. I haven't been to that site in over 3 years.

They really changed their interface. I guess I'm going to have to get reacquainted with the new design and try to remember my login info. Maybe later. Right now I'm too exhausted.
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john beardsworth

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #111 on: June 28, 2016, 03:45:35 pm »

I would think something that flashes on the preview for every edit performed is not a minor graphical element that can be ignored to the point of not having a name for it.

Don't worry, the name does exist, it is officially "bezel" and it's no big deal that not many people know its name. It's used multiple times in the thread Butch point to, as another example.
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digitaldog

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #112 on: June 28, 2016, 03:48:47 pm »

Butch, years of past attempts posting feedback issues with Adobe apps never brought fruit in future upgrades so I don't see how my 2¢ is going to make a difference.
How do you feel about voting for elected officials?  ;D
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #113 on: June 28, 2016, 03:51:41 pm »

Don't worry, the name does exist, it is officially "bezel" and it's no big deal that not many people know its name. It's used multiple times in the thread Butch point to, as another example.

Thanks for the confirmation, john. You're more helpful than Andrew, but that doesn't surprise me.

But really, "Bezel"?! Why? I'm going to continue to call it the lozenge. At least that name functions more as a picture word that describes the shape. Bezel sounds too much like bevel as in beveled edge in cabinet making.
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john beardsworth

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #114 on: June 28, 2016, 03:56:32 pm »

Call it a bezel or a lozenge - either way people won't initially know what you mean ;)
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #115 on: June 28, 2016, 04:02:21 pm »

OMG! I just looked up the definition of "Bezel" on Google choosing "Bezel Definition Computers". Here's what it says...

Quote
On a computer case the bezel is the front area of the case where devices protrude through the case. On a CRT computer monitor, the bezel is the outside frame area around the monitor glass.


The other non-computer definitions were not any closer nor did they give any indication of a shape.
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donbga

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2016, 04:11:50 pm »

OMG! I just looked up the definition of "Bezel" on Google choosing "Bezel Definition Computers". Here's what it says...

The other non-computer definitions were not any closer nor did they give any indication of a shape.
Exactly, I've always considered bezel to be a hardware term.

As for the info display itself it's simply a "Text Box" with rounded corners. From an object oriented programming point of view, "Show Bezel" is probably an inherited class function that at it's root is probably a Text Box function with specific attributes.
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digitaldog

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2016, 07:54:20 pm »

More LR Bezel talk (and apparently NOT what people here are calling Bezel; the word of the day):

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1410173
Q: When LR gets really slow, there are actual taskbar items called "Bezel" and "Shadow" that show as not responding.  I am having this issue as well.

A: There are no tools by the name of Bezel or Shadowing in Lightroom
It would help if you used the actual names, and told us exactly what you were trying to do when you run into problems

Sound familiar?
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hjulenissen

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #118 on: June 29, 2016, 01:47:42 am »

Let's see ... most automobile owners would love to minimize the time and effort necessary to achieve a certain level of competency to operate a modern marvel transportation device.  Does that mean the engineers should be ashamed for being responsible for creating such an intricate contraption that most end users only care to simply travel from Point A to Point B in relative comfort and ease?
Thank you for bringing the car analogy into this discussion.

I got a new car one year ago. The Germans must have really thought about how their users use their cars, because I am perfectly able to do most*) of what I want to do without consulting a manual. The simple stuff like starting, accelerating, breaking and turning seems to follow established conventions so that I can spend my limited time on earth doing something else than consulting car instruction videos.

If most users were keenly looking at videos in order to understand how to start their new car, I would say that was a big "fail" on the designers of that car. If most people were able to get most of the things done without ever opening the manual, I would say that was a design win.

-h

*)Cars are becoming increasingly software-driven, and there are some quirks that I have been unable to solve. If anyone knows how to robustly bind BMW car key id to seat position preset, I would appreciate it. I.e. I want my key to cause the drivers seat to adjust to a 2 meter tall person, while the other key to move it to a 1.75m tall person.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:53:28 am by hjulenissen »
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ButchM

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Re: "Please Fix Lightroom"
« Reply #119 on: June 29, 2016, 08:38:43 am »

Thank you for bringing the car analogy into this discussion.

I got a new car one year ago. The Germans must have really thought about how their users use their cars, because I am perfectly able to do most*) of what I want to do without consulting a manual. The simple stuff like starting, accelerating, breaking and turning seems to follow established conventions so that I can spend my limited time on earth doing something else than consulting car instruction videos.

If most users were keenly looking at videos in order to understand how to start their new car, I would say that was a big "fail" on the designers of that car. If most people were able to get most of the things done without ever opening the manual, I would say that was a design win.

-h

*)Cars are becoming increasingly software-driven, and there are some quirks that I have been unable to solve. If anyone knows how to robustly bind BMW car key id to seat position preset, I would appreciate it. I.e. I want my key to cause the drivers seat to adjust to a 2 meter tall person, while the other key to move it to a 1.75m tall person.

Are you of the belief that you were born with the knowledge of how to start a car? Secondly, where does Lightroom break away from following established conventions for a RAW image workflow? I've used several options over the years including Aperture, Capture 1, RAW Developer, etc. There's not a dime's worth of difference when it comes to the basics. Sure there are subtle differences in the nomenclature and semantical references between apps, but an Exposure slider is still a slider.

Since when do you need to refer to learning materials to 'learn the simple stuff' for Lightroom? While some features and the RAW Process versions have changed a few times since 2006, you should still be able to handle the basics quite easily without investing any additional time and effort. Yes, new users, just like new drivers may have to consult the owner's manual or even view a video tutorial to lean how to start a car ... after all, they have never done this before. Same applies to software ... I have yet to see any RAW image software solution that can read the user's mind and apply those thoughts to achieve the desired outcome without any effort on the user's part. It's not mystical, magical powers from the ether ... it's computer application which requires input from the user. Hence the user needs to be aware of how to input their desires. That may require some effort on the end user's part until we do develop a computer that can read your mind.

The learning process does not advance purely through osmosis nor does it have to be a daunting, time consuming drudgery. You should not spend so much time and effort in building a straw man argument for your thesis that does not hold water in real world application.
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