"Please Fix Lightroom"

[ButchM]

Read a book?! Are you kidding me?! Is that all you educated guys can come up with on issues that would take days to hunt for solutions within an 800 page future paper weight/door stop? Come on!

How did you solve problems before the advent of the internet forum? Has instant gratification come this far?

If it would take you days to use a book to answer your questions or solve an issue ... that says more about your skills as a student than if anyone on  this forum is as helpful as you would desire.

Give a man a fish he eats for a day ... teach a man how to fish ... well ... you should know the rest of the parable.

My whole point on my last few comments in this thread is some folks invest too much effort in subjective classification of the intent of the advice offered and spend far too much valuable time in psycho-analyzing the motives of the person who offered it. Yes, the aforementioned books can achieve 'paper weight' status ... but they shouldn't reach that point without the reader wringing out every last morsel of information the tome can offer.

I have several books on my office shelf ... and by the Lr/Ps/ACR version numbers printed on many of the covers ... time has passed them by ... but ... they still can offer invaluable knowledge about the basics of all those solutions that can still be considered applicable to current tech in many situations. Especially where the authors discuss the 'WHY' and 'WHEN'  we should do certain tasks before they explain the 'HOW' ...

Quite often I am tasked to offer up a product that requires a function in Ps or Lightroom I haven't utilized recently and realize I need to refresh my 'learning' to replicate something I have done in the past. It doesn't take days or even hours because I already invested in a solid foundation of study over the past 24 years of using imaging software. That's not bragging ... that's just the reality of the effort it takes to keep up to date. It's a never-ending process of education.

In the end, forum participants can take or leave the advice about further educating themselves or utilizing recommended resources. However, the books (and the advice) in consideration only truly become a door stop material if the reader deems them so. Though if they never take up the opportunity to crack the cover ... they'll never know the true value of the information on the pages within.

[hjulenissen]

No, I don't look down on anybody ... I also don't try to pigeon hole others into classifications.

if you are suffering self-esteem issues that some may consider you less of a photographer (or a man) because you take offense when others advise users to seek further education on their tools ... that's a whole other issue and this discussion thread couldn't possibly solve that problem for you.

I do think that valid criticism of a piece of software is important and relevant, and that _defending_ a piece of software against any criticism with "buy the book" is a poor defence. I might say "learn how to properly program and you can solve any SW problem a lot more flexible than any Adobe product will ever offer". The thing is, learning to program takes considerable time and effort. For most most, it simply won't be worth it.

Now, buying the book might be a good advice anyways, but it does not solve the issue that software should be designed to minimize the time and effort needed to get a certain output. If people need to read an 800 page book to do relatively simple and/or common operations, I would be ashamed of my work if I was the responsible UI/UE designer.

-h

[ButchM]

So you don't look down on anyone, but you suggest that I have self-esteem issues?

Classy...

-h

It's called satirical expression to illustrate a point.

You inferred (incorrectly, I believe) that the advice offered was done so to make the recipient to feel less than adequate, or the that the person offering the advice did so to feel intellectually superior. (The term you used was 'noble' as I recall)  I simply pointed out how silly that premise is.

I read the same suggestion and did not see any reference that was condescending or belittling ... just sound advice ... we ALL need to continue our course of study for our software of choice as it is updated and it evolves over time. That's just common sense. Of course you are free to disagree with or not to accept any advice offered on an internet discussion forum ... but to question the motives and intent of the individual offering the advice seems a bit peculiar as you have no way of actually knowing what that intent was.

Sure it would be nice if Lr was so simple that we could telepathically instruct it to accomplish our RAW imaging tasks ... but we are some time away from that point. ANY software that has the capabilities of Lr will take some time to learn and master ... continuing that investment of further education to update that knowledge as it grows and matures over time. If you are personally offended because someone points that out, or see ulterior motives in such advice ... well ... as I said earlier, that is a whole other issue.

[ButchM]

Now, buying the book might be a good advice anyways, but it does not solve the issue that software should be designed to minimize the time and effort needed to get a certain output. If people need to read an 800 page book to do relatively simple and/or common operations, I would be ashamed of my work if I was the responsible UI/UE designer.

-h

Let's see ... most automobile owners would love to minimize the time and effort necessary to achieve a certain level of competency to operate a modern marvel transportation device.  Does that mean the engineers should be ashamed for being responsible for creating such an intricate contraption that most end users only care to simply travel from Point A to Point B in relative comfort and ease?

My car's owner's manual is 834 pages long. Does that mean they got it wrong? Secondly, am I required to read, comprehend and ultimately retain all the information on all 834 pages in order to achieve my transportation goals? Or do I simply refer to the specific information I desire to learn for the specific task at hand?

Yes, Evening may be a little long winded offering up 744 pages ... especially when you consider he isn't offering a 'how to move a slider' approach ... but the 'why and when to move a slider'. Which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with UI. You need not suffer for infinite hours of study for topics of little use or interest. Just as I do with my car's owners manual ... I use the ToC and Glossary and head straight to the topics I want to learn now ... and save the rest for later if I ever desire to learn more about other facets or topics..

You are unfairly portraying it as an unnecessary Herculean task ... it is not. Plus, you don't necessarily have to 'buy' any book. That is where public libraries or your local camera club can come in handy. We share quite an extensive list of books with members at the club I participate in. Most folks appreciate the opportunity to learn more and don't blame the engineers for their UI/UE design as the cause for the study time.

[Tim Lookingbill]

OK Butch, in LR's User's Guide/Owner's (oops, we don't own the software) Manual, er Licensee Manual tell me where in its TOC do you find a way to turn off the annoying Bezel that flashes over every edit in the preview you want to see change after hitting Command Z?

Trick question. You can't turn it off. It's designed that way because the software designer thought ahead that users should be reminded of every minor point curve tweak that can run easily over 15 that its just better to start over from scratch. So much for efficiency.

[donbga]

find a way to turn off the annoying Bezel that flashes over every edit in the preview you want to see change after hitting Command Z?

I can't replicate this behavior at all, can anyone else? I don't see any Bezel and what do you mean by preview (the image displayed in the Develop panel?)? Pressing Contrl-Z (Command Z for MAc addicts) doesn't cause anything to "flash".

[digitaldog]

I can't replicate this behavior at all, can anyone else?

Nope. No flashing anywhere using Command Z.

[pegelli]

I can't replicate this behavior at all, can anyone else?

Don't see it either, can you post a screenshot of what's bugging you? We might be able to help turn it off (or avoid it).

[Tim Lookingbill]

OH MY! You guys must have a more recent version of LR.

Someone at Adobe must've listened to my complaints about Bezel in LR4 (my one and only current version). I guess this is why I need to upgrade just so I will no longer be annoyed.

They just couldn't put the Bezel over in a corner of the frame? Why right in the middle? Who thinks that way? I don't. I would've never designed a image editing app in that way.

BTW, the Bezel even shows up Command Z right back into Library mode.

[digitaldog]

OH MY! You guys must have a more recent version of LR.

I've got both recent version of CC and LR 5. Neither produce what I think (because you really need to do a quick video) you're talking about.

[ButchM]

I've got both recent version of CC and LR 5. Neither produce what I think (because you really need to do a quick video) you're talking about.

It's only a guess ... but I think the term bezel is being used to refer to the popup feedback notification that appears when the undo-redo function is employed.

[Tim Lookingbill]

I've got both recent version of CC and LR 5. Neither produce what I think (because you really need to do a quick video) you're talking about.

What do you mean, Andrew? Did you see my screegrab with the "Redo" lozenge (that's the Bezel, a word that was told to me is the name of that annoyance)? This happens with me in LR4. Or do you have a tip you're waiting for me to go see in a LR video? If this can be turned off, how about being helpful and tell me how to do this?

[digitaldog]

What do you mean, Andrew? Did you see my screegrab with the "Redo" lozenge?

Tim, again, I'm not at all clear on your issue. I don't know what a Bezel is supposed to mean and I'm not alone.
LR4, really? Time to upgrade.

[john beardsworth]

You can't turn the undo bezel off. That's because it's good information if you do more than one undo.

In Develop, View > View Options, you can turn off the "loading" bezel.

[ButchM]

If this can be turned off, how about being helpful and tell me how to do this?

Sorry ... it can't be turned off as far as I can tell.

But, you are not the first to be annoyed by the process of informing the Lightroom user that Undo/Redo has been invoked.

There is a 5 year old 'idea' discussion over on the Photoshop Feedback Forum specifically about this problem ... so far the idea has accumulated a whopping 7 votes for consideration.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_avoid_status_messages_on_images

[Tim Lookingbill]

Tim, again, I'm not at all clear on your issue. I don't know what a Bezel is supposed to mean and I'm not alone.
LR4, really? Time to upgrade.

The Bezel is the lozenge shaped icon ("Redo") that's in the middle of the image preview. While back when I first brought this up in a LR discussion some expert chimed in and told me "Bezel" is the name for it. GEEZ! Andrew, read a book on LR. It should tell you this, RIGHT?!

Just checked and found out the only way to keep this from flashing in front of the preview is to click on each individual History State listing. That slows me down so I use Command Z.

[digitaldog]

In Develop, View > View Options, you can turn off the "loading" bezel.

Where? You mean "Show message when loading..."?

[digitaldog]

The Bezel is the lozenge shaped icon ("Redo") that's in the middle of the image preview.

OK understood. FWIW, doesn't show up in the middle (much lower down), never thought it was an issue whatsoever.

[Tim Lookingbill]

You can't turn the undo bezel off. That's because it's good information if you do more than one undo.

In Develop, View > View Options, you can turn off the "loading" bezel.

It goes down the list generated by the History State with each Command Z and Shift/Command Z stating the name of each edit. So if I do a lot point curve tweaks it just flashes "Point Curve" in the Bezel. Not very informative IMO.

Hasn't anyone found this out in all the tutorials, 800 page Martin Evening books and YouTube videos? Come on! Anyone?

[digitaldog]

While back when I first brought this up in a LR discussion some expert chimed in and told me "Bezel" is the name for it. GEEZ! Andrew, read a book on LR. It should tell you this, RIGHT?!

Nope, because whoever told you that probably didn't know what it's called and without due diligence on your part, you just believed that's what it is called. I've got a number of books on LR, I can't find any that use that term for the Undo message you complain about. Best I could find, searching a PDF (LR Missing FAQ from Victoria Bampton) has ONE and only 1 inclusion of the term bezel:

• In Loupe view there’s a bezel with editing controls.


As the Chinese proverb says: "The first step towards genius is calling things by their proper name".