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Author Topic: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL  (Read 10820 times)

JV

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2016, 07:25:33 pm »

Have you already held an SL in your hand? This is like moving from a compact to a Humvee.

Edmund

The M240 body weighs 680g, the Leica SL body weighs 771g (847g w/ battery)...

If you shoot M lenses with it you will hardly feel a weight difference.

And it will support your M lenses much better than a Sony...
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JV

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2016, 07:27:23 pm »

Theory sounds great.

In the real world the M lenses I use most don't play well with the Sony sensor, the AF adapter has issues including those with FLE lenses and every time I pick up a Sony camera all I want to do is put it down.

Amen.

You have a fab camera.

I'd choose option 1 and spend what I'd saved on travel.

Wise suggestion though!

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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2016, 04:26:09 am »

I use the Sony Alpha 7 system with several lenses, including the M Elmarit 90 f2.8. I have never used the M system, because I don't have that kind of money.

Using M lenses in the A7II is very easy, I just set the camera in aperture priority mode, and manual focus using focus peaking and/or magnification. The EVF is certainly good enough for all situations I normally encounter (travel, people, reportage, low light, strong light).

I can certainly recommend the A7 system as a platform to shoot M lenses. Matter of fact, my next one will be the ZM C Sonnar 50 1.5, once I find a good deal.

JV

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2016, 08:27:22 am »

I use the Sony Alpha 7 system with several lenses, including the M Elmarit 90 f2.8. I have never used the M system, because I don't have that kind of money.

Using M lenses in the A7II is very easy, I just set the camera in aperture priority mode, and manual focus using focus peaking and/or magnification. The EVF is certainly good enough for all situations I normally encounter (travel, people, reportage, low light, strong light).

I can certainly recommend the A7 system as a platform to shoot M lenses. Matter of fact, my next one will be the ZM C Sonnar 50 1.5, once I find a good deal.

Paulo,

A ZM lens is not that big of an investment.  If you buy the more expensive Leica lenses why would you also not buy the body that supports those lenses the best?

Below are some comparison shots for the old and new Summicron 28mm on the Leica M, the Leica SL and the Sony A7II:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2016/06/old-new-leica-28mm-summicron-asph/

To me the differences are noticeable and his conclusion at the end is spot on...

Thanks, Joris.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 08:41:46 am by JV »
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2016, 11:38:01 am »

Paulo,

A ZM lens is not that big of an investment.  If you buy the more expensive Leica lenses why would you also not buy the body that supports those lenses the best?

Below are some comparison shots for the old and new Summicron 28mm on the Leica M, the Leica SL and the Sony A7II:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2016/06/old-new-leica-28mm-summicron-asph/

To me the differences are noticeable and his conclusion at the end is spot on...

Thanks, Joris.

Joris, thanks for the input, interesting link. As I said, I don't have enough money to build a Leica M system. So, I make do with what I can afford. I prefer to buy used cameras (bought A7 and A7II) and good lenses. Currently, I have the Zeiss Batis 25, Sony Zeiss 55, and Leica Elmarit M 90. These cover my shooting requirements.

I once tried a ZM C Sonnar 50 on the A7II, and loved the results from that lens. Not that the Sony Zeiss 55 is not a top quality lens, which is, just a different rendering.

My preference is toward good glass, and the Sony A7 cameras just allow a lot of folks to use good "legacy" lenses without buying a 5000 EUR (or more) Leica camera.

adriantyler

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2016, 04:57:19 pm »

the 50mm summicron will work with an adaptor on the a7rii, i have just spent the day using the leica elmar 90mm on the sony and i can attest that is was not a "using a computer" like experience, the images are much better than the ones i got form the m9 in every respect.
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Gilgamesh

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2016, 05:43:08 pm »

Hmm.
Use your M9 in the vertical (to the landscape format) with either a 50mm or better still a 35 or a 28mm in the vertical and stitch them together.

Lr CC and you're done.

Problem solved.
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scooby70

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2016, 06:09:09 pm »

Every time I read a Sony or Panasonic or any other electronic manufacturing companies camera described as a computer I grimace a little and I do wonder if this is just a cheap shot aimed to discredit these upstart companies. After all, who do they think they are making cameras? And good ones too! Shouldn't they stick to making computers, mobile phones and toasters?

I've only been using cameras for 45 years and although this might not be long enough and I may be a young upstart I just don't get the view that these cameras are or feel like computers, at all.

Yes, I currently have a Sony. It's my first Sony. I shoot using a mixture of AF and MF lenses and my A7 seems to work just like any other modern camera I've had and certainly not differently to my first modern automated Nikon 35mm SLR which I had decades ago. The aperture, shutter speed, compensation and ISO are all set with wheels or are just a button push away and I only dive into the menu to format the card or set the clock. Just like any Canon, Nikon or... some Leicas.

Lets lay off with the computer jibes. After all Leica now makes cameras which are as far removed from their old film rangefinders as anything Sony make.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2016, 04:02:25 am »

the 50mm summicron will work with an adaptor on the a7rii, i have just spent the day using the leica elmar 90mm on the sony and i can attest that is was not a "using a computer" like experience, the images are much better than the ones i got form the m9 in every respect.

Adrian,

As a side note, what is your experience with the 50 Summicron on the A7? I am toying with the idea of getting a small Leica 50 f2 for my A7II, since it is so small and high quality. I currently have the Sony Zeiss 55, which is fantastic in its own right, but I do like manual focus. I am also thinking of the Loxia 50.

Regards.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2016, 04:29:31 am »

Every time I read a Sony or Panasonic or any other electronic manufacturing companies camera described as a computer I grimace a little and I do wonder if this is just a cheap shot aimed to discredit these upstart companies. After all, who do they think they are making cameras? And good ones too! Shouldn't they stick to making computers, mobile phones and toasters?

Couldn't agree more.

There is not even a need to factor in the Minolta genes of Sony's cameras, history doesn't matter. With today's design tools, start ups could design within a few months whatever camera UI you could dream of, this is the easy part. The underlying technological building blocks, the quality manufacturing and the profitability are the tough parts.

The complexity of consumer goods electronics lies there.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2016, 06:57:02 am »

Every time I read a Sony or Panasonic or any other electronic manufacturing companies camera described as a computer I grimace a little and I do wonder if this is just a cheap shot aimed to discredit these upstart companies. After all, who do they think they are making cameras? And good ones too! Shouldn't they stick to making computers, mobile phones and toasters?

I've only been using cameras for 45 years and although this might not be long enough and I may be a young upstart I just don't get the view that these cameras are or feel like computers, at all.

Yes, I currently have a Sony. It's my first Sony. I shoot using a mixture of AF and MF lenses and my A7 seems to work just like any other modern camera I've had and certainly not differently to my first modern automated Nikon 35mm SLR which I had decades ago. The aperture, shutter speed, compensation and ISO are all set with wheels or are just a button push away and I only dive into the menu to format the card or set the clock. Just like any Canon, Nikon or... some Leicas.

Lets lay off with the computer jibes. After all Leica now makes cameras which are as far removed from their old film rangefinders as anything Sony make.

 If you're willing to think a bit, maybe it will come to you that people who remind you that your camera is a computer are doing you a favor. The iPhone and S7 Galaxy phones  are hugely powerful little computers with superb screens sold by the hundreds of millions, and this is why when a tiny $10 camera module is integrated in the phone,  the viewfinder is responsive, image processing is exemplary, the screen is LARGE, BRIGHT, calibrated  and images look good. Also, the camera app is easy to use because it benefits from UI research and an API that has been amortized over thousands of AppStore applications that have generated billions of dollars of profit. Images can be exported straight away through a bulletproof wireless interface, and viewed all over the world.

 Your average cheap SLR simply does not contain as much hardware, and this is why the screen is bad, it is small and not calibrated at the factory for cost reasons, the UI not responsive, focus lags and is imprecise, the electronic viewfinder is laggy, and the in-camera image processing not as good as it might be. The UI is quite often a mess because every camera manufacturer has to reinvent the wheel, and program every part of the interface kit. Your average "Pro" SLR eg. my Nikon D4 does not even integrate a WIFI interface.

 Reminding the public that cameras are now computers will prevent them from expecting a free lunch, and make them realize that they will only get decent cameras if they are willing to pay for some serious dedicated hardware. Accepting that the camera is now a computer and employing standard UIs from the phone/computer industry will enable savings that can translate into image quality.

 I'm not against wheels, dials and aperture rings - but I see no reason why a camera cannot have a standard UI on the backscreen and a SCREEN LARGE ENOUGH AND BRIGHT ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY SEE. LIKE MY PHONE.

 Sticking a couple of wheels on top of the camera to "simulate" ISO and select shutter speed is not exactly the same as updating the computer hardware which makes the thing tick.

Edmund
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 08:09:03 am by eronald »
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JV

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Re: Advice needed - Upgrade from m9 to SL
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2016, 09:16:38 pm »

Lets lay off with the computer jibes. After all Leica now makes cameras which are as far removed from their old film rangefinders as anything Sony make.

I'm not against wheels, dials and aperture rings - but I see no reason why a camera cannot have a standard UI on the backscreen and a SCREEN LARGE ENOUGH AND BRIGHT ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY SEE. LIKE MY PHONE.

Actually the camera with the most iPhone-like UI is probably a Leica... the Leica T.

I don't believe it was a commercial success (wrong marketing, not an M, only APS-C) but most of the people who own one (including myself) are quite fond of it...

As far as Sony goes, although I wouldn't call them computers, I just am not a fan of their ergonomics and handling, I tried one last year and I don't see myself going back anytime soon.
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