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Author Topic: Creative Cloud or Creative Control  (Read 28260 times)

amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #100 on: February 04, 2016, 06:07:57 am »

Clearly I am a bad person for assuming that your resume on your web site is accurate, Schewe.

"Jeff Schewe is a Photoshop Guru’s Guru. He’s on the inside of the development and testing of Photoshop and has helped guide and direct many features since Photoshop 4.0. Short of some of the Photoshop engineers, there’s probably not many people who knows Photoshop like Jeff.

As an indication of his skills and knowledge of fine art printing, he has been named an Epson Stylus Pro. He is a past Apple Master of the Medium and has been inducted into the Photoshop Hall of Fame. He speaks regularly at Photoshop World."

I naturally assumed that this indicated a vested interest in Adobe's continued dominance. But now that I learn that your own resume on your own web site is apparently inaccurate I see the error of my ways.
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amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2016, 06:44:52 am »

And so let me put it out there clearly:

A rhetorical question, to be answered each of us silently and for only ourselves:

Whose opinion on Adobe is truly worth 'less than zero'?

The fellow who is not a customer, not a user, and has literally no personal or financial interest in Adobe, OR the man who sees fit to pepper his resume with references to hard earned and long held expertise in one or more Adobe products, who by putting these things in his resume indicates as clearly as a man can that he feels his knowledge of specifically Adobe products is worth cash money?

It's not for me to tell you what to think. But I can provide information.

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michael

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2016, 07:50:35 am »

Amolitor,

Once again your are a free-agent shit-disturber. Somehow, I feel that if you're not a card-carrying Tea Party member, you at least have read their playbook. You see conspiracies under every rock, while using half-truths, conjecture and outright lies to play the holier-than-though champion of truth.

You're tolerated here for two reasons (he says, with his finger poised over the big red nuke button) because we believe in freedom of expression, and frankly because I find your boorish rantings to be vaguely amusing. Stay this side of rudeness and the libel laws, and I might continue to cut you some slack. But really – when you write things that are known to be patently wrong, not just by the people whom you vilify, but also by others in the industry, you do yourself and your reputation no favours.

Michael
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2016, 08:19:33 am »

Concerning Gimp one should know that the project has suffered for more than a decade of too few contributors (software developers), I mean it's still 8 bit and it still doesn't have adjustment layers. It's about the same software it was 15 years ago. They are working on a significant update but it's glacial. I use Gimp from time to time as I know it and it runs on Linux (which is my primary platform), but I can't do any serious work in it mainly due to the 8 bit limitation and lack of adjustment layers.
Yes, this is the primary problem of all open source projects.  The Firefox group may be the only example of a success in this area where the software is constantly improved and updates are timely.  As I said in an earlier post, people will have to put up funding if they want alternatives.  I use LR because it works well for my needs.  I don't use PS very much at all these days so I've not bought a CC package, preferring to stay with the standard LR package and CS6 Photoshop that I purchased a couple of years ago.  Maybe at some point I'll switch over to CC, we'll have to see.  I think folks want to have a free lunch all the time and that's just not the reality of things any longer.
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amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2016, 09:40:04 am »

With respect, please point out where I have said anything patently wrong, or where I have vilified anyone.

I have disagreed, I have reported information published by people on their own web sites. If that information was false, surely I cannot be held to account for that?

In return I have been repeatedly subjected to puerile insults.

I have been, on return, sarcastic but have I believe offered no insult, no vilification.

Please check the actual words as written by me, rather than the summaries and descriptions posted in replies to my remarks.

EDIT: I think Michael might be talking about things I've written elsewhere, not on LuLa.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 09:58:41 am by amolitor »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #105 on: February 04, 2016, 10:30:00 am »

Unless you need layers...

TIFFs have layers too. Apparently, the only remaining advantage of PSD is for duotone, tritone, and quadtone modes. Rather esoteric and hardly a province of a menacing monopoly.

digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #106 on: February 04, 2016, 11:04:32 am »

With respect, please point out where I have said anything patently wrong, or where I have vilified anyone.
Well how about: you're a shameless Adobe shill!
As for patently wrong, the thread is filled with examples where facts have been presented, you just don't read or comprehend the text provided.
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Zorki5

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #107 on: February 04, 2016, 11:13:32 am »

TIFFs have layers too. Apparently, the only remaining advantage of PSD is for duotone, tritone, and quadtone modes. Rather esoteric and hardly a province of a menacing monopoly.

Can TIFF handle layers with non-rasterized text? I know it couldn't in the past, but things could have changed...
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john beardsworth

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #108 on: February 04, 2016, 11:19:25 am »

TIFFs have layers too. Apparently, the only remaining advantage of PSD is for duotone, tritone, and quadtone modes. Rather esoteric and hardly a province of a menacing monopoly.

Also PSDs maintain transparency in InDesign, TIFs don't, and you need PSDs for displacement maps. Equally obscure and non-threatening.


Can TIFF handle layers with non-rasterized text? I know it couldn't in the past, but things could have changed...

Of course. TIF can handle everything except the above 3 exceptions.
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digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #109 on: February 04, 2016, 11:22:07 am »

Can TIFF handle layers with non-rasterized text? I know it couldn't in the past, but things could have changed...
Text Layers? Yes. The layers you can save in a PSD can be saved in a TIFF. As Slobodan points out, the TIFF vs. PSD limitations are when dealing with duotones. And yes, I've requested Adobe update that not that very many people today use that old format. The other limitations is in InDesign where PSD with layers provides more options*, deal with the layers. Again, Adobe could and should fix.


*Transparency, especially on a named mask layer, needs to live in a PSD to work correctly in ID
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Isaac

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2016, 11:40:25 am »

The Firefox group may be the only example of a success in this area where the software is constantly improved and updates are timely.

Not coincidentally -- $300-million a year in revenue from Google
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Zorki5

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2016, 12:15:51 pm »

Thanks everyone who responded to the PSD/TIFF & layers questions.

Will try to request TIFFs next time and see if that works better...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2016, 01:39:19 pm »

... Concerning Gimp one should know that the project has suffered for more than a decade of too few contributors (software developers), I mean it's still 8 bit and it still doesn't have adjustment layers. It's about the same software it was 15 years ago. They are working on a significant update but it's glacial...

And that is the crux of the debate. To make technical progress, companies need to make profit (or be funded by someone who does). One can hardly argue that moving from 8 to 16 bits and introducing layers is an anti-competitive, monopolistic move.

Also, while there might be some technical similarities, it is unfair otherwise to compare Adobe to MS. MS has demonstrably been engaged in predatory, anti-competitve marketing practices, and taken to court for that.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2016, 01:26:37 am »

Thanks everyone who responded to the PSD/TIFF & layers questions...

You are welcome. There is an old thread, spanning from 2007 to today, titled "Why use TIFF?" If you want to dig deeper into the issue:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=18965.msg134231#msg134231

P.S. Check your PM

Eigil Skovgaard

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #114 on: February 05, 2016, 03:38:04 am »

Administrator and senior members are about to be "nuked" in the same kamikaze-like attack in the name of "good behaviour".
Serious stuff!
Or bluff. Is this the MO around here to wrap unpleasant issues in noise - attempting to make them invisible and forgotten? A certain bird sticks its head into the bushes or sand to avoid unpleasant realities. The main part of the body is still exposed of course and will be hit by reality sooner or later. This acting might indicate a wider familiarization with Adobe, that participants of this forum are ready to reveal here. Fair enough. Object the wedding or stay silent for ever.

To get rid of all the unpleasant thinking we are now welcome to recapitulate an old tread about TIFF vs. PSD.
One of the interesting observations in 2007 was, that Adobe owns PSD, but also the rights to TIFF.
Could this be another explanation on, why very few alternative editing systems, able to manage layers, exist? Would you launch a new project that from the very beginning was dependent of Adobes handling of the legality? Hardly. Another example of how dominant companies keep competition at the distance. Is it fair trade? If you ask Adobe, they would call it timely precaution. I call it an unreasonable act to avoid competitive development.

A dominant company as Adobe will keep facilitating its way to the absolute monopoly unless it is governed by the users. Just follow.

I will rest my case with this, not least because I fear to be hit by a red-button-finger whirling around in a small space.
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Justinr

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #115 on: February 05, 2016, 04:01:29 am »

Wow! I've seen some trivialities on LuLa, but this thread probably takes the cake. As long as PS works as well as it does, who cares whether you own it or not.

I certainly do for one.

This argument is much the same as the cashless society debate. Just who's money is it and why put yourself so blatantly at the mercy of third parties? You can argue until the cows come home that the Adobe and the Banks are perfect angels and would never take advantage of the situation, but you know in your heart that they damn well will.
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stamper

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #116 on: February 05, 2016, 04:47:53 am »

Administrator and senior members are about to be "nuked" in the same kamikaze-like attack in the name of "good behaviour".
Serious stuff!
Or bluff. Is this the MO around here to wrap unpleasant issues in noise - attempting to make them invisible and forgotten? A certain bird sticks its head into the bushes or sand to avoid unpleasant realities. The main part of the body is still exposed of course and will be hit by reality sooner or later. This acting might indicate a wider familiarization with Adobe, that participants of this forum are ready to reveal here. Fair enough. Object the wedding or stay silent for ever.

To get rid of all the unpleasant thinking we are now welcome to recapitulate an old tread about TIFF vs. PSD.
One of the interesting observations in 2007 was, that Adobe owns PSD, but also the rights to TIFF.
Could this be another explanation on, why very few alternative editing systems, able to manage layers, exist? Would you launch a new project that from the very beginning was dependent of Adobes handling of the legality? Hardly. Another example of how dominant companies keep competition at the distance. Is it fair trade? If you ask Adobe, they would call it timely precaution. I call it an unreasonable act to avoid competitive development.

A dominant company as Adobe will keep facilitating its way to the absolute monopoly unless it is governed by the users. Just follow.

I will rest my case with this, not least because I fear to be hit by a red-button-finger whirling around in a small space.


Why do members keep repeating that Adobe is a monopoly when there is clearly other products available? If they don't like Adobe products then don't use them and let the members who like the products use them without the continued attacks.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/definition/monopoly

The patience of the owners of LULA is clearly getting stretched and I assume that some members don't care if they get banned. Members are entitled to their opinions but it isn't always wise to air them. :(

Eigil Skovgaard

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2016, 03:32:58 am »

Stamper,

I have tried to create the impression of "actual monopoly" regarding Adobe (have missed some times) and in your citation, you can find the expressions:
"dominant Company" and "its way to the absolute monopoly".

Try to look up "actual monopoly".

My intention with this thread was to initiate some thinking about the difference between owning a one time paid for licence (safe for you) versus the cloud trap (only safe for Adobe). If people want to walk blindly into that trap, is is their own free choice. Of course.

Think about it while you continue as usual.
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Schewe

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2016, 05:52:37 am »

Clearly I am a bad person for assuming that your resume on your web site is accurate, Schewe.

"Jeff Schewe is a Photoshop Guru’s Guru. He’s on the inside of the development and testing of Photoshop and has helped guide and direct many features since Photoshop 4.0. Short of some of the Photoshop engineers, there’s probably not many people who knows Photoshop like Jeff.

As an indication of his skills and knowledge of fine art printing, he has been named an Epson Stylus Pro. He is a past Apple Master of the Medium and has been inducted into the Photoshop Hall of Fame. He speaks regularly at Photoshop World."

I naturally assumed that this indicated a vested interest in Adobe's continued dominance. But now that I learn that your own resume on your own web site is apparently inaccurate I see the error of my ways.

Again, what you assume to be is accurate...I already said that I'm locked into Adobe processing. I already said I've been involved in PS/LR/ACR processing and that I write books about it. And yes, I'm pretty much a Photoshop's Guru's Guru...something other experts have anointed on me. I never claimed anything opposite. But even with my Adobe fanboy status, I can still have a contrary opinion.

But that is something you apparently don't understand. And again, you seem to lump EVERYBODY who doesn't HATE Adobe with the same brush...like Andrew is an Adobe shill.

You are a putz...there, I finally said it. Now, what are ya gonna do about it?

:~)
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digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2016, 10:51:48 am »

You are a putz...there, I finally said it.
You're being awfully unfair to the putz community for lumping this fellow into their camp.  :o
Schmuck?
http://grammarist.com/spelling/schmuck-versus-putz/
Well which is more appropriate? That's surely a more useful discussion than what we've seen here thus far.....
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