Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Creative Cloud or Creative Control  (Read 26148 times)

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2016, 07:29:39 pm »

You should be delighted, because you've been trying to trash this thread from the third post, because you're a shameless Adobe shill!

Happy to help!

Actually Andrew is no shill...in fact he's a harsh critic...more in terms of engineering but heh you aren't even an Adobe User so what are you're opinions wort? Hint less than zero :-)
Logged

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2016, 07:36:07 pm »

Yes, because only Adobe users know anything about marketing and sales. Quite right.
Logged

Eigil Skovgaard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
    • http://www.ask4photos.com
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2016, 03:24:41 am »

"If I was a pro, I'd have to subscribe ..."

Why?

Because it's the proper way - provided all parties play fair. Most of us want to play a fair game. But Adobe´s business is not fair in this matter. It is very creative, but the creativity has moved from exploring new possibilities of editing an image to invent a goldlined paying system. Adobe cheat us quietly and efficiently.

Within a decade you may easily have paid Adobe 36.000 dollars if you have a number of licenses running: 10 years times 12 months times 30 dollars times 10 licenses.
"What's the deal," you may say - "my customers pay," and thereby you throw the monkey to another consumer. We all row the same boat.
A few years ago your expense would have been a fraction, around 5.000 dollars for the same period - or strikingly smaller. The small-amounts-psychology makes the cheat invisible. The Adobe lovers don't do math here for a good reason. The bottom line is this - we all pay considerable more money after this "rent a software" business was brought upon us - for largely the same product. How can anybody fall in love with that - unless he's a shareholder?

On the top of this - Adobe stamps each and every image of yours with its references to this and that - as if your images were Adobe's property - or you had not yet paid for your use of Photoshop.

So why pay? If you don't sell your images to Adobe, who cares?

In a war you have to match your enemy. If he smartens you out - you need to get smarter!
"This is the well known prescription for escalating a war - the ungodly way into a deadly spiral of attacks and counterattacks," the upset bonus Paters will cry.
Yes, and no.

In this case our army would count an endless number of conscious consumers. Adobe's gurus and disciples would be outnumbered 100 to a million from the beginning, and within a couple of years Adobe would yield. Of course this would demand loyalty to your fellow users, and solidarity is an ugly world. Some made it ugly for others and serious for themselves - because it works.

Conscious users would win the war, and Adobe would have to lower the bridge and begin to communicate for real. When Adobe listened to us again, we would tell them to manage greediness, to do fair trade, to do their very best - OR stay out of business.

Adobe would agree to give up the Cloud madness and sell us a lifelong license to the newest version of Photoshop at any time - and Adobe would promise to keep our older versions running for the rest of our time. Adobe would still earn very good money.

You could put your cracked copy of Photoshop away (without deleting it!).

"Search for another software - and let Adobe in peace," the chills demand. Well, monopolies exist because they are allowed to grow into monopolies and - as the word says - monopolies has no competitors. Competitors are removed from the market with the money you pay en excess of the real value of Adobe's products.


The future alternative to this is a gilded monopolized Adobe, arrogantly instructing you from behind thick walls, a much poorer you and a never ending exploitation.

Logged
Kind regards,
Eigil

My homepage

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17982
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2016, 08:30:26 am »

Ok, our buddy comrade Eigil has a point.

Therefore, I am amending my conditions for voting for Bermie to include breaking up the big, bad monopoly Adobe into separate companies: one for Photoshop, another for Lightroom, yet another for Illustrator, etc.

And then there is, of course, the main part of his election platform: FREE Adobe programs for all! Adobe's R&D will be taken over by the government employees who graduated from free colleges or whose student loans are forgiven, and marketing will be handled by the newly established Department of Conscientious Affairs.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 08:34:32 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
Logged

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2016, 09:11:37 am »

Yeah, Adobe is a monopoly, whether in reality or in the minds of their customers is irrelevant. As an amateur I stumble along without any Adobe products, so it's probably not a literal monopoly. They have done a truly masterful job of creating this mental monopoly, however. There's probably a term of art for it, but I don't know what it is. They're got an army of people out there in the world writing books and guides and training and so on, all Adobe-referenced.

The newbie cannot move a step on the internet without hearing ACR and Lightroom. Photoshop is a common verb. Clients would be baffled and probably suspicious if you revealed that you didn't use Photoshop.

Ok, so what? Good for Adobe.

Modern corporate philosophy of governance dictates that Adobe shall attempt to maximize shareholder value, and they're doing that. This is usually not quite the same thing as maximizing customer value, or social value.

This philosophy is quite modern and is an important root cause for incredible amounts of damage, but it's not Adobe's fault. The executive suite is just doing what they're told, they're doing their jobs as best they can, and they're doing quite well.

But maximizing shareholder value isn't the same thing as maximizing customer value, and only a very silly or naive person thinks the two goals are particularly well aligned other than occasionally and by accident.
Logged

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2016, 09:15:06 am »

There are competitors. The problem is that people rather pirate Adobe software than supporting the competitors.

Take a look at PhotoLine pl32.com, as far as I know made by two tech guys so it doesn't have the smoothness like Adobe but is very capable. If you want more commercial feel take a look at the new Affinity Photo https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/

Sure these softwares are not exactly like Adobe's, but if your only solution is that Adobe should change their pricing so you can buy Adobe anyway you're not helping in supporting the competition.

If you exchange files with collaborators or clients it's probably hard not to use Adobe's PSD format, that's where the monopoly comes in, just like it's very hard not using Microsoft Office when exchanging documents. However if you work internally and only deliver the finished result you can use any tools you like.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 09:18:46 am by torger »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17982
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2016, 09:28:24 am »

.. if your only solution is that Adobe should change their pricing so you can buy Adobe anyway you're not helping in supporting the competition...

Good point. However, isn't charging "outrageous" prices supposed to work in favor of the competition? In other words, Adobe-haters should be happy that Adobe is pushing that "outrageous, unsustainable, socially unacceptable" pricing model.

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2016, 09:44:34 am »

Yes, just like when OPEC runs prices up, it encourages North American producers to push out more oil.

Next thing you know, you've got software developers in your backyard, fracking, and Java pipelines stretching across the continent periodically shattering and flooding delicate ecosystems with poorly thought out apps.
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4344
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2016, 10:22:50 am »



If you exchange files with collaborators or clients it's probably hard not to use Adobe's PSD format, that's where the monopoly comes in, just like it's very hard not using Microsoft Office when exchanging documents. However if you work internally and only deliver the finished result you can use any tools you like.
But Open Office and it's successors showed that one can get around the "Microsoft Monopoly" with regard to office software.

What is also being overlooked here is that the big bucks Adobe makes is for the full CC suite and not just the PS/LR combination.  There are far more users in the graphics arts community that pay the full freight for all the applications.  I'm not familiar with that community but I wonder if they are complaining.
Logged

Isaac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3123
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2016, 10:49:38 am »

You could put your cracked copy of Photoshop away (without deleting it!).

"Search for another software - and let Adobe in peace," the chills demand. Well, monopolies exist because they are allowed to grow into monopolies and - as the word says - monopolies has no competitors. Competitors are removed from the market with the money you pay en excess of the real value of Adobe's products.

"Competitors are removed from the market" because instead of paying for competitors stuff, some would rather take Adobe's stuff without paying and then make-believe that is honest.

It fools no one.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20004
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2016, 11:02:57 am »

There are competitors.
Exactly. Affinity Photo is quite impressive, even supports importing layered PDS's with blend modes, etc. Slick. $50! Amazing. And yes, I purchased it; voting if you will, with my cash!
The people who use the term monopolies must be speaking of the board game, they sure don't know what that means in terms of software options!


DEFINITION of 'Monopoly' A situation in which a single company or group owns all or nearly all of the market for a given type of product or service. By definition, monopoly is characterized by an absence of competition, which often results in high prices and inferior products.
Logged
Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2016, 11:46:59 am »

If only dictionaries captured the full range of meaning a word has when used in context. Alas...
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17982
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2016, 11:52:10 am »

Every camera comes with a free image editing software, you do not have to use Adobe. Then there is GIMP, a Photoshop competitor, which is free. There was Aperture by Apple. And all the others mentioned before. None of them has been crushed by the  "ruthless" Adobe's "monopoly," which a true monopoly would have done. If anything, Adobe was David, vs. Apple's Goliath. No move so far by Adobe, technical or marketing, could be construed as anti-competitive. Unless, of course, you count simply being the best among competitors as monopoly.

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17982
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2016, 11:55:44 am »

... If you exchange files with collaborators or clients it's probably hard not to use Adobe's PSD format, that's where the monopoly comes in..

That is hardly true. You can use TIFF. And most knowledgable people would argue today there is very little, if any, reason to use PSD files.

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2016, 11:59:28 am »

As we say in business, Adobe has captured mindshare.

Which means that in a business sense, they effectively enjoy a near monopoly in certain large segments, but are not subject to regulation on it! Sweet deal!
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17982
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2016, 12:15:21 pm »

As we say in business, Adobe has captured mindshare.

Which means that in a business sense, they effectively enjoy a near monopoly in certain large segments, but are not subject to regulation on it! Sweet deal!

Ah, yes... how certain large segments (read: the left) would love to regulate our minds ;)

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2016, 12:16:56 pm »

Oh come now, the right wants to regulate our minds too!
Logged

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2016, 02:53:25 pm »

While we're taking the opportunity to denigrate and devalue the opinions of others, let me take a moment to note that Andrew Rodney (digitaldog) and Jeff Schewe (Schewe) get their livings through continued dominance of the Adobe ecosystem.

So who's opinions, precisely, ought we to take cum grano salis?
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17982
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2016, 03:06:06 pm »

While we're taking the opportunity to denigrate and devalue the opinions of others, let me take a moment to note that Andrew Rodney (digitaldog) and Jeff Schewe (Schewe) get their livings through continued dominance of the Adobe ecosystem.

So who's opinions, precisely, ought we to take cum grano salis?

Both gentlemen are perfectly capable of making their living within any (dominating or not) ecosystem. Andrew doesn't have much to do with Adobe, and Jeff would be writing about whatever system is of interest to most people anyway.

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2016, 03:08:24 pm »

Yes, and I am certain you and I could get our livings as carpenters with a bit of a refresher. That's not the point.

They both have vested interests in Adobe's dominance. Make if that what you will.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Up