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Author Topic: Creative Cloud or Creative Control  (Read 28252 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2016, 03:09:04 pm »

While we're taking the opportunity to denigrate and devalue the opinions of others, let me take a moment to note that Andrew Rodney (digitaldog) and Jeff Schewe (Schewe) get their livings through continued dominance of the Adobe ecosystem.
Untrue. But making up crap is your MO. You don't have an ounce of proof to back up my income source any more than I of yours.
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Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2016, 03:13:03 pm »

Yes, and I am certain you and I could get our livings as carpenters with a bit of a refresher. That's not the point.

They both have vested interests in Adobe's dominance. Make if that what you will.


You are missing the point. Both gentlemen would not have to change their careers. They could continue to write about the same subject, it would just cover different systems or companies, in case it was not Adobe. Andrew writes about color management, which doesn't have to do much with Adobe per se. And Jeff about post-processing in general. It is like saying that Ansel Adams would not be able to write his book "The Negative" without relying on Kodak.

amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2016, 03:13:45 pm »

And right on cue we have the denials.

Go check out their web sites and make your own judgments. Adobe certified trainer. Training in adobe products. Regular speaker at Photoshop world. Etc etc etc.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 03:16:59 pm by amolitor »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2016, 03:16:19 pm »

And right on cut we have the denials.

Go check out their web sites and make your own judgments. Adobe certified trainer. Training in adobe products. Regular speaker at Photoshop world. Etc etc etc.

And you think that if Apple organized Aperture World those gentlemen wouldn't be speaking there? Or getting certified to train?

digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2016, 03:21:30 pm »

Go check out their web sites and make your own judgments.
Go check out amolitor's web site. Oh wait, zero transparency. Posting as an alias, no info here in his profile. You can click on a link to his book; that's about it.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_1?ie=UTF8&text=Andrew+Molitor&search-alias=digital-text&field-author=Andrew+Molitor&sort=relevancerank

Hypocrite: the man who murdered both his parents... pleaded for mercy on the grounds that he was an orphan. ~Abraham Lincoln
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amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2016, 03:21:38 pm »

Honestly, Slobodan, I simply cannot imagine that you can't see the existence of a vested and therefore conflicting interest. I assume therefore that you are playing devil's advocate, and/or supporting a personal friend.

And respect both just those.

But the gentlemen in question have been quite rude to me and frankly have earned my remarks. My remarks are objectively true and easily verified.

I am not proposing that anyone treat my remarks as gold while dismissing others. I'm only suggesting that one needs to consider the sources, in all cases, with a little care.
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amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2016, 03:22:51 pm »

Try Google. I'm not hard to find.
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digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2016, 03:25:54 pm »

But the gentlemen in question have been quite rude to me and frankly have earned my remarks. My remarks are objectively true and easily verified.
Just the opposite. Your remakes have been easily dismissed with facts. In just this thread. The remake about Adobe not being philanthropic despite the facts provided is just one example. The number of subscribers another. I'm sorry that illustrating the folly of your text comes across as rude. As for respect, you have to earn it from your peers. If I can be so kind as to associate you as a peer.
I'm very sorry that reality and facts continue to ruin your life. If indeed, ignorance is bliss, you must be a in a continual state of ecstasy!
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amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2016, 03:27:42 pm »

And there insults just keep coming!
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digitaldog

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2016, 03:28:21 pm »

Try Google. I'm not hard to find.
I did, here's what I found:
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2442180797/IMG_4425_400x400.jpg


And this (assuming again, it's you):

http://photothunk.blogspot.com/p/about.html
I'm a cranky old bastard who has been taking crappy pictures for 20 years or so. I'm full of opinions and ideas about photography, but not terribly good at putting them into practice. So it goes.

This makes perfect sense now.
Oh, the lack of transparency HERE in your bio, Google not withstanding, is still factual.'

IF your goal is to get Chris to shut the thread down, you're on a roll.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 03:31:59 pm by digitaldog »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2016, 04:43:11 pm »

Honestly, Slobodan, I simply cannot imagine that you can't see the existence of a vested and therefore conflicting interest. I assume therefore that you are playing devil's advocate, and/or supporting a personal friend... But the gentlemen in question have been quite rude to me ...

Neither gentlemen are my personal friends. As for being rude, Andrew and I exchanged more personal insults over time that I care to remember. We also happened to share same or similar opinions on a number of occasions. Which goes to say that I choose my side based on merit, not personal relationships.

I am simply trying to use logic: those two gentlemen, and many others, are individuals who are pouncing on the opportunity when it presents itself. That opportunity is currently Adobe. Had it been Apple Aperture or GIMP, they's get certified and teach there, or write books about it.

Since their relationship with Adobe, whatever it is, is public knowledge, each one of us is free to take it into account. I personally tend to value their comments based on the merit of their arguments, not whether or not they are paid by Adobe.

Schewe

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2016, 12:11:44 am »

While we're taking the opportunity to denigrate and devalue the opinions of others, let me take a moment to note that Andrew Rodney (digitaldog) and Jeff Schewe (Schewe) get their livings through continued dominance of the Adobe ecosystem.

Again you don't understand Andrew's business. He consults on color management (which is not Adobe only ya know) and makes profiles for customers. He criticises Adobe more than he defends them. As for me, yeah, I consult with Adobe (for free) in feature development and I write books about Adobe products. So, yeah, you go right ahead and question my motives doood. Other people know where I stand.

BTW, he is no longer associated with PSW at all...he pissed off Scott because of his opinions about soft proofing, so you got yet another detail wrong.

(edited to add the BTW)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 12:16:06 am by Schewe »
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Schewe

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #92 on: February 04, 2016, 12:17:38 am »

I suspect this thread is gonna be locked any time now. Largely because of amolitor...Andrew has been rather retained I think.
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amolitor

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #93 on: February 04, 2016, 12:35:34 am »

Actually, Schewe, you were the chap I had in mind when I cited Photoshop world.
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Eigil Skovgaard

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #94 on: February 04, 2016, 01:26:28 am »

Be greeted comrads!

And sorry to interrupt the digitaldog-Slobodan-amolitor love affair.

Private initiative is good. Preserving the fundamental right to own private property is as well.
Kapitalism is good too - but in a civilized version: fair trade.
Competition is not only good but necessary.

"Lefts" and "rights" ... What are you talking about? The western world is ruled by one thing: money.
Wings in political sense is something you learned about in school to keep your thinking aligned. Among other basic learning, we were told, that democracy is our way.
Since when? Most so-called democracies today have turned into a capitalized pseudo pluralistic model where your vote can be placed on different parties with exactly the same effect as if there existed only one party. Beware of the political buzz words that have only one purpose - to make you act properly in the super capitalized operating system called "democracy".

There are you (us) and the growing monopolies. That's the reality.

Those of you living in the US should know. The Federal Banking System is maybe the ultimate monopoly. In 1913 a few forward looking bankers grabbed the exclusive right to issue money on behalf of the American nation. Combined with the fractional banking system of today, it gives you the model of evil private capitalism. If you don't believe me, just take a look at this counter: www.usdebtclock.org
Private and untouchable! - for we have all learned to support private initiative and capitalism to stay independent and happy.
The joke is, that we are only free and happy to pay.
The money paid to honour outrageous interests is (privately) send to the European Union and to China where it will serve the forward looking guys to gain further control and profit.
Still love the model?

This example should be sufficient to warn anybody about the risk of one dominant operator on the market, not moderated by competition.

The cloud smartness is just another step on this path. It's a system that is invisibly bloodletting your account, silently and pleasant reducing your ability to stay in control. The fantastic marketing and impressive dressing let you believe, that its worth your money. If you just work a bit harder, you will finally prosper.
Adobe has not reached the top of the Olympus yet, and you should not let them.

This Adobe problem is of course an "innocent" part of the total scam. Adobe is not a monster - yet. And we should all prevent it to turn into one. "Fed" should be the constant reminder of what free capitalism ultimately will lead to. Cloud will efficiently take over control. It makes you dependent of (in this case) Adobe and the Internet, which in my opinion is worse than me (you) in control and doing business dependent of as few unknown factors as possible. Were we promised a prize? Yes, but we were given no choice. Now everyone with their eyes open can see, that the prize was taken by Adobe exclusively.

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Schewe

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #95 on: February 04, 2016, 01:34:45 am »

Actually, Schewe, you were the chap I had in mind when I cited Photoshop world.

Wrong again...I've been banished from PSW. Seems when I said no to PSW to do a workshop in Iceland instead (door). I no longer spoke at PSW...lately it seem the "regulars" have also been banashed. Yet again you show how little you actually know. Good for you...
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Zorki5

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #96 on: February 04, 2016, 03:41:14 am »

But Open Office and it's successors showed that one can get around the "Microsoft Monopoly" with regard to office software.

For Word and Excel -- yes, but only to an extent.

Likewise, Thunderbird (along with Lightning plug-in managing calendar events) is a pretty good replacement for Outlook.

But... if your business depends on communicating with companies, you have to use MS Office. Or else every now and then you'd get an Outlook calendar event that Thunderbird (even with Lightning installed) will show you as plain text (uu/base64-encoded mess), or Word file that you created in OpenOffice or LibreOffice will be rendered incorrectly by your addressee's Word, or something else will happen that you really can't afford.

So I keep buying new Outlook OEM license with every notebook purchase...
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Zorki5

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #97 on: February 04, 2016, 03:48:27 am »

And most knowledgable people would argue today there is very little, if any, reason to use PSD files.

Unless you need layers. And you do need them if, say, PSDs that your client sends you are mockups of some designs. Yes, you can use GIMP that renders them mostly accurately. Mostly. But every now and then you'd be screwed by some especially elaborate PSD, which happened to me much more often than I'd have liked.

I agree with what you said about Adobe not doing anything explicitly aimed at crushing competition though -- so far.
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Zorki5

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #98 on: February 04, 2016, 04:13:23 am »

At the heart of all these issues with near-monopolies like Adobe (PS/LR) and MS (Office) is the use of proprietary formats. Until respective formats are properly transferred to ECMA or similar organization, there won't be any "free replacements" or proper competition -- customers of competing solutions will always be subject to classic FUD.

Or just sub-par functionality (like Leica's DNGs crashing Apple Aperture).

So, for goodness sake, stop pushing for wider adoption of DNG until its issues are resolved.
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torger

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Re: Creative Cloud or Creative Control
« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2016, 04:15:29 am »

I use Libre Office a fair bit too (previously known as Open Office), but I also must have an Microsoft Office as if external parties start sending me .docx files the compatibility is simply not good enough. Maybe there's the same issue with .PSDs.

Concerning Gimp one should know that the project has suffered for more than a decade of too few contributors (software developers), I mean it's still 8 bit and it still doesn't have adjustment layers. It's about the same software it was 15 years ago. They are working on a significant update but it's glacial. I use Gimp from time to time as I know it and it runs on Linux (which is my primary platform), but I can't do any serious work in it mainly due to the 8 bit limitation and lack of adjustment layers. I've bought and used PhotoLine when I've needed modern layer capabilities. I have never had the need to exchange PSD files with external parties though, but I'm not working as a pro photographer.
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