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Author Topic: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs  (Read 12752 times)

Ranger Rick

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Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« on: January 05, 2016, 09:29:30 am »

Had started to use C1 ver 9, looking to migrate from Lightroom.  Discovered yesterday that it will not recognize tiffs from scanned film.  Film scanned on Nikon LS9000 with Vuescan and with Silverfast are simply not recognized when you go to import them into the catalog (or into a Session).  Lightroom, Photoshop, Iridient Developer all recognize and can process them, Capture One 9 cannot.

Sadly, it looks like it will have to be Lightroom.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 09:57:50 am »

Had started to use C1 ver 9, looking to migrate from Lightroom.  Discovered yesterday that it will not recognize tiffs from scanned film.  Film scanned on Nikon LS9000 with Vuescan and with Silverfast are simply not recognized when you go to import them into the catalog (or into a Session).  Lightroom, Photoshop, Iridient Developer all recognize and can process them, Capture One 9 cannot.

Sadly, it looks like it will have to be Lightroom.

They must be RGB (not grayscale).

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 10:18:09 am »

They must be RGB (not grayscale).

And VueScan should be set to 24 or 48-bit RGBs not 64-bit RGBI. I have not tried regular 36-bit TIFFs from VueScan myself, so there may still be something to do with the TIFF library used by Ed Hamrick, or the one used by Capture One, but that is not as likely as a non-RGB format throwing a spanner in the works.

VueScan can also write linear gamma TIFFs (scanner colorspace) or Gamma compensated TIFFs (profiled), so make sure you use a proper profile and/or Gamma compensated files.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 03:50:21 pm »

CO is very picky about the format it takes for TIFFs.

If you just copy, not import, the TIFFs to a session folder, will CO see them?
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Bob Rockefeller
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BobShaw

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 04:34:23 pm »

Coming into this late, but have you checked the suffix of the file name. Sometimes it is .tiff and sometimes .tif
Some work and some don't, sometimes.
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 05:03:19 pm »

Coming into this late, but have you checked the suffix of the file name. Sometimes it is .tiff and sometimes .tif
Some work and some don't, sometimes.

You're kidding me. The file extension can trip up CO?
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Bob Rockefeller
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Ranger Rick

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 05:45:18 pm »

They must be RGB (not grayscale).

16 bit grayscale, scanned as such.  They have also been edited in PS 6, where I confirmed by the dropdown that the Mode is 16 bit and grayscale.  They can be opened in Photo Ninja, Iridient Developer, Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop. 
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Ranger Rick

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 05:46:41 pm »

Coming into this late, but have you checked the suffix of the file name. Sometimes it is .tiff and sometimes .tif
Some work and some don't, sometimes.

Suffix is .tif
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 05:51:44 pm »

16 bit grayscale, scanned as such.  They have also been edited in PS 6, where I confirmed by the dropdown that the Mode is 16 bit and grayscale.  They can be opened in Photo Ninja, Iridient Developer, Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop.

CO needs RGB, not grayscale.

Cheers,
Bart
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Ranger Rick

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 07:35:59 pm »

CO needs RGB, not grayscale.

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks for that.  I converted one of the scans to RGB in Photoshop, but that's not the answer.  Perhaps that step doesn't really convert, or CO is very picky. 

And I have just scanned Provia transparencies in 16-bit RGB, and they cannot be imported either.  So that doesn't seem to be the deciding factor.  When 5 other applications open them, I have to wonder.
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2016, 06:26:16 am »

Perhaps that step doesn't really convert, or CO is very picky. 

That.

It's a wonder I've gotten some TIFFs in at all. And it makes round-tripping a hazardous process. What format will be acceptable to get back in?
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Bob Rockefeller
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Bragishusse

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2016, 06:27:15 am »

Hi Ranger Rick,
I have used same setup as have you.
But I don't save as TIFF but save as RAW .DNG.
This makes CO treat the file OK.
Hope this help.

Cheers
Sonny T


Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk
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JimDK

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 09:40:04 am »

As Doug says it has to be RGB. It also (from memory) needs a profile embedded (ARG98 should be ok for a test).

Lastly, note also the max file dimensions in the release notes.

Make a support case with Phase One and attach samples if you still have issues.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 10:46:19 am »

Thanks for that.  I converted one of the scans to RGB in Photoshop, but that's not the answer.  Perhaps that step doesn't really convert, or CO is very picky.

Hi,

Well, as a Raw converter, C1 expects something that looks like a Camera Raw file, or a kind of simple TIFF. So no added layers, no transparency, no strange compression, 3 channels (not more, not less), etc.

So, I just ran a test, producing a scan with VueScan Pro and outputting to a TIFF with profile, one on Auto- and one on No-Compression, and both were read just read fine in C1 version 9.0.2 .

Not that I would normally do that, because TIFFs are huge and will slow down things a lot, and one can exceed the size limitations, or have other non-Raw metadata settings that could confuse the Raw converter. C1 is not an image editor, but it is a Raw converter. However, I can understand some need to produce a catalog that contains the lot, Raw + Derived result after photoediting and Retouching.

So I suggest you review your scan settings. see my settings as attached. Otherwise, open a support case with Phase One, but do read about the limitations for TIFF import first, to avoid wasting their time with something that was already mentioned elsewhere like here . And don't expect them to have all applications on the planet to test for compatibility, so you may have to supply samples.

Applications that save TIFFs may add their own flavor of previews, transparency, change tags, etc., so it is not guaranteed that C1 will always be able to read everything thrown at it. TIFF is a very flexible format, and C1 is not primarily a photo editor (although it's getting better with Raw based source material).

Cheers,
Bart
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 11:01:43 am »

TIFF is a very flexible format, and C1 is not primarily a photo editor (although it's getting better with Raw based source material).

The problem, in my view, is that CO claims to support round-trip photo adjustments.

http://blog.phaseone.com/quick-round-trip-photoshop/

Doing that in TIFF format isn't asking for much and supporting OnOne and Affinity Photo isn't asking for much, either.
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Bob Rockefeller
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2016, 11:10:16 am »

The problem, in my view, is that CO claims to support round-trip photo adjustments.

http://blog.phaseone.com/quick-round-trip-photoshop/

Doing that in TIFF format isn't asking for much and supporting OnOne and Affinity Photo isn't asking for much, either.

Hi Bob, I suppose when the external applications do not modify the TIFF structure too much, things should work. If they don't and the user is not doing things like e.g. adding or removing color channels, I'm sure Phase One are willing to investigate.

Cheers,
Bart
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Ranger Rick

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 11:31:48 am »

Thanks, all, for your comments.  I'll give these suggestions a try, sounds hopeful. 
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Bragishusse

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2016, 01:22:09 pm »

If you save as RAW .DNG file you can save as RGB or grayscale without problem. CO accept all.

Cheers
Sonny T
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 11:07:07 am »

Hi Bob, I suppose when the external applications do not modify the TIFF structure too much, things should work. If they don't and the user is not doing things like e.g. adding or removing color channels, I'm sure Phase One are willing to investigate.

Cheers,
Bart

Maybe not so much. I entered a support case for not being able to import Affinity Photo TIFFs and got back this:

Quote
That tiff comes in as having layer 0 in Photoshop which we have support for. See below. It is not just background but actually a layer 0. So once flattened it was readable in the import window. I'm not sure Affinity's structure of saving a tiff is compatible or standard. See these release notes on what to expect from outside programs and tiffs.

Tiff and Jpeg support

The number of channels must match that of the ICC profile. e.g if an image is Adobe RGB 1998, it must have 3 channels (no alpha etc).

A 4-channel image must have a CMYK profile. Images that do not conform to these specifications will not display properly in Capture One and may cause instability or crash.

Editing images in external applications other than Adobe Photoshop might result in unexpected behavior.

Do they don't seem to want to support external applications other than Photoshop, as long as it's not a PSD. :(

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Bob Rockefeller
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One 9 won't recognize scanned tiffs
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 11:24:46 am »

Maybe not so much. I entered a support case for not being able to import Affinity Photo TIFFs and got back this:

Hi Bob,

Thanks for sharing that feedback. It seems from that response that Affinity photo changes the "Background" to a "Layer 0", which presumably is not locked like the default Background, and maybe other things in the TIFF structure also changed. I've read on the internet about an older issue that Affinity created, a 0px preview, that apparently got fixed by Affinity.

Quote
So they don't seem to want to support external applications other than Photoshop, as long as it's not a PSD. :(

Well, it looks like an almost impossible task for Phase One to repair issues created by others, so I'd contact the other program manufacturers as well and see if they can improve their output to a more standardized/generic version. I see no real good reason for outputting a TIFF without a 'Background type' layer if there is only one layer and no masking or alpha channel.

Cheers,
Bart
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