Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: Ranger Rick on January 05, 2016, 09:29:30 am
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Had started to use C1 ver 9, looking to migrate from Lightroom. Discovered yesterday that it will not recognize tiffs from scanned film. Film scanned on Nikon LS9000 with Vuescan and with Silverfast are simply not recognized when you go to import them into the catalog (or into a Session). Lightroom, Photoshop, Iridient Developer all recognize and can process them, Capture One 9 cannot.
Sadly, it looks like it will have to be Lightroom.
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Had started to use C1 ver 9, looking to migrate from Lightroom. Discovered yesterday that it will not recognize tiffs from scanned film. Film scanned on Nikon LS9000 with Vuescan and with Silverfast are simply not recognized when you go to import them into the catalog (or into a Session). Lightroom, Photoshop, Iridient Developer all recognize and can process them, Capture One 9 cannot.
Sadly, it looks like it will have to be Lightroom.
They must be RGB (not grayscale).
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They must be RGB (not grayscale).
And VueScan should be set to 24 or 48-bit RGBs not 64-bit RGBI. I have not tried regular 36-bit TIFFs from VueScan myself, so there may still be something to do with the TIFF library used by Ed Hamrick, or the one used by Capture One, but that is not as likely as a non-RGB format throwing a spanner in the works.
VueScan can also write linear gamma TIFFs (scanner colorspace) or Gamma compensated TIFFs (profiled), so make sure you use a proper profile and/or Gamma compensated files.
Cheers,
Bart
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CO is very picky about the format it takes for TIFFs.
If you just copy, not import, the TIFFs to a session folder, will CO see them?
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Coming into this late, but have you checked the suffix of the file name. Sometimes it is .tiff and sometimes .tif
Some work and some don't, sometimes.
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Coming into this late, but have you checked the suffix of the file name. Sometimes it is .tiff and sometimes .tif
Some work and some don't, sometimes.
You're kidding me. The file extension can trip up CO?
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They must be RGB (not grayscale).
16 bit grayscale, scanned as such. They have also been edited in PS 6, where I confirmed by the dropdown that the Mode is 16 bit and grayscale. They can be opened in Photo Ninja, Iridient Developer, Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop.
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Coming into this late, but have you checked the suffix of the file name. Sometimes it is .tiff and sometimes .tif
Some work and some don't, sometimes.
Suffix is .tif
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16 bit grayscale, scanned as such. They have also been edited in PS 6, where I confirmed by the dropdown that the Mode is 16 bit and grayscale. They can be opened in Photo Ninja, Iridient Developer, Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop.
CO needs RGB, not grayscale.
Cheers,
Bart
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CO needs RGB, not grayscale.
Cheers,
Bart
Thanks for that. I converted one of the scans to RGB in Photoshop, but that's not the answer. Perhaps that step doesn't really convert, or CO is very picky.
And I have just scanned Provia transparencies in 16-bit RGB, and they cannot be imported either. So that doesn't seem to be the deciding factor. When 5 other applications open them, I have to wonder.
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Perhaps that step doesn't really convert, or CO is very picky.
That.
It's a wonder I've gotten some TIFFs in at all. And it makes round-tripping a hazardous process. What format will be acceptable to get back in?
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Hi Ranger Rick,
I have used same setup as have you.
But I don't save as TIFF but save as RAW .DNG.
This makes CO treat the file OK.
Hope this help.
Cheers
Sonny T
Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk
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As Doug says it has to be RGB. It also (from memory) needs a profile embedded (ARG98 should be ok for a test).
Lastly, note also the max file dimensions in the release notes.
Make a support case with Phase One and attach samples if you still have issues.
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Thanks for that. I converted one of the scans to RGB in Photoshop, but that's not the answer. Perhaps that step doesn't really convert, or CO is very picky.
Hi,
Well, as a Raw converter, C1 expects something that looks like a Camera Raw file, or a kind of simple TIFF. So no added layers, no transparency, no strange compression, 3 channels (not more, not less), etc.
So, I just ran a test, producing a scan with VueScan Pro and outputting to a TIFF with profile, one on Auto- and one on No-Compression, and both were read just read fine in C1 version 9.0.2 .
Not that I would normally do that, because TIFFs are huge and will slow down things a lot, and one can exceed the size limitations, or have other non-Raw metadata settings that could confuse the Raw converter. C1 is not an image editor, but it is a Raw converter. However, I can understand some need to produce a catalog that contains the lot, Raw + Derived result after photoediting and Retouching.
So I suggest you review your scan settings. see my settings as attached. Otherwise, open a support case with Phase One, but do read about the limitations for TIFF import first, to avoid wasting their time with something that was already mentioned elsewhere like here (http://help.phaseone.com/en/co6/output/learn-more-about-file-formats/capture-one-and-raw.aspx?p=1#item3) . And don't expect them to have all applications on the planet to test for compatibility, so you may have to supply samples.
Applications that save TIFFs may add their own flavor of previews, transparency, change tags, etc., so it is not guaranteed that C1 will always be able to read everything thrown at it. TIFF is a very flexible format, and C1 is not primarily a photo editor (although it's getting better with Raw based source material).
Cheers,
Bart
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TIFF is a very flexible format, and C1 is not primarily a photo editor (although it's getting better with Raw based source material).
The problem, in my view, is that CO claims to support round-trip photo adjustments.
http://blog.phaseone.com/quick-round-trip-photoshop/
Doing that in TIFF format isn't asking for much and supporting OnOne and Affinity Photo isn't asking for much, either.
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The problem, in my view, is that CO claims to support round-trip photo adjustments.
http://blog.phaseone.com/quick-round-trip-photoshop/
Doing that in TIFF format isn't asking for much and supporting OnOne and Affinity Photo isn't asking for much, either.
Hi Bob, I suppose when the external applications do not modify the TIFF structure too much, things should work. If they don't and the user is not doing things like e.g. adding or removing color channels, I'm sure Phase One are willing to investigate.
Cheers,
Bart
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Thanks, all, for your comments. I'll give these suggestions a try, sounds hopeful.
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If you save as RAW .DNG file you can save as RGB or grayscale without problem. CO accept all.
Cheers
Sonny T
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Hi Bob, I suppose when the external applications do not modify the TIFF structure too much, things should work. If they don't and the user is not doing things like e.g. adding or removing color channels, I'm sure Phase One are willing to investigate.
Cheers,
Bart
Maybe not so much. I entered a support case for not being able to import Affinity Photo TIFFs and got back this:
That tiff comes in as having layer 0 in Photoshop which we have support for. See below. It is not just background but actually a layer 0. So once flattened it was readable in the import window. I'm not sure Affinity's structure of saving a tiff is compatible or standard. See these release notes on what to expect from outside programs and tiffs.
Tiff and Jpeg support
The number of channels must match that of the ICC profile. e.g if an image is Adobe RGB 1998, it must have 3 channels (no alpha etc).
A 4-channel image must have a CMYK profile. Images that do not conform to these specifications will not display properly in Capture One and may cause instability or crash.
Editing images in external applications other than Adobe Photoshop might result in unexpected behavior.
Do they don't seem to want to support external applications other than Photoshop, as long as it's not a PSD. :(
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Maybe not so much. I entered a support case for not being able to import Affinity Photo TIFFs and got back this:
Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing that feedback. It seems from that response that Affinity photo changes the "Background" to a "Layer 0", which presumably is not locked like the default Background, and maybe other things in the TIFF structure also changed. I've read on the internet about an older issue that Affinity created, a 0px preview, that apparently got fixed by Affinity.
So they don't seem to want to support external applications other than Photoshop, as long as it's not a PSD. :(
Well, it looks like an almost impossible task for Phase One to repair issues created by others, so I'd contact the other program manufacturers as well and see if they can improve their output to a more standardized/generic version. I see no real good reason for outputting a TIFF without a 'Background type' layer if there is only one layer and no masking or alpha channel.
Cheers,
Bart
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing that feedback. It seems from that response that Affinity photo changes the "Background" to a "Layer 0", which presumably is not locked like the default Background, and maybe other things in the TIFF structure also changed. I've read on the internet about an older issue that Affinity created, a 0px preview, that apparently got fixed by Affinity.
Well, it looks like an almost impossible task for Phase One to repair issues created by others, so I'd contact the other program manufacturers as well and see if they can improve their output to a more standardized/generic version. I see no real good reason for outputting a TIFF without a 'Background type' layer if there is only one layer and no masking or alpha channel.
Cheers,
Bart
You're pretty forgiving of PO and CO. Affinity Photo TIFF files open fine for me with Preview, Acorn, Pixelmator and, of course Photoshop. I would expect PO to have chops equal to or better than the small teams that write Acorn and Pixelmator.
I would love to be able to round-trip out of CO to AF to do some pixel pushing or even some pano making. :(
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You're pretty forgiving of PO and CO. Affinity Photo TIFF files open fine for me with Preview, Acorn, Pixelmator and, of course Photoshop. I would expect PO to have chops equal to or better than the small teams that write Acorn and Pixelmator.
But Capture One is not a photo editor like the others you mention, but a Raw converter. Again, it would be nice if C1 could open anything thrown at it, but it's not their main focus, Rawconversion is. A photoeditor obviously needs to cater to another audience, not necessarily for Raw files.
I would love to be able to round-trip out of CO to AF to do some pixel pushing or even some pano making. :(
I agree, the round tripping (if needed, and it occasionally is) is what also puts some pressure on C1 to facilitate it, or offer better solutions from within C1 itself. But that doesn't mean that other applications shouldn't do their homework as well.
Cheers,
Bart
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But Capture One is not a photo editor like the others you mention, but a Raw converter. Again, it would be nice if C1 could open anything thrown at it, but it's not their main focus, Rawconversion is. A photoeditor obviously needs to cater to another audience, not necessarily for Raw files.
I agree, the round tripping (if needed, and it occasionally is) is what also puts some pressure on C1 to facilitate it, or offer better solutions from within C1 itself. But that doesn't mean that other applications shouldn't do their homework as well.
Cheers,
Bart
CO is no longer solely a Raw converter. It's added DAM features, a managed catalog, and offers round trip editing. I can understand PO's position that they don't want to support PSDs (while I don't think it's wise), but I do expect near universal support for TIFF. It continues to be my opinion that if CO wants to be a serious option for Aperture users, and an industry alternative to Lightroom, it has to up its game. Excusing PO as "small" and CO as a "RAW converter" doesn't put much customer pressure on them to improve.
Perhaps PO does not want to compete in that way. That's their choice, of course. But I, at least, am hoping for a real challenger to Lightroom and CO is getting very, very close. Fix some bugs, clean up a few features, add real image stacks, and they will be near about there, in my estimation.
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What I cannot wrap my mind around is how they have a perfectly usable DAM (Media Pro) and refuse to update it. Yet still offer it for sale.
Media Pro recognizes PSD along with several other file types. I don't care if I can edit a PSD, Tiff or whatever in C1, just let me catalog it!
I have been a C1 user for a while and find it quite funny watching the C1 forum getting swamped with Aperture users pointing out issues that C1 users just gave up on.
Guess its time to hire some help ;D
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I found this thread today on a Google search. I had the same issue of not seeing Vuescan's tiffs in Capture One Pro, where I wanted to try editing one. From Lightroom, I had previously looked at some Vuescan tiffs in the (free) Siler Efex Pro plug-in and now notice that the tiffs which are generated for SEP are in fact seen by C1. One can just save the SEP tiff without doing any edits there. That tiff can then be worked on in C!.
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Although now "old news" it may be useful for this thread to mention that CO 9.1 has in its list of updates:
"TIFF files saved with Alpha channels or layers can now be stored and viewed in Capture One."
From what I can work out, it seems that you can edit TIFFS with alpha channels which is good news for round tripping to some plugins, but layered TIFFS are view only.
Cheers,
Graham
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RGB 24 or 48 bit and less than 500mb size will be ok for C1 in my experience.