Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now.

[voidshatter]

At the very least the new Phase 100MP back is gonna be as good or most likely a lot better regardless of whether it has 13.1 stops or 14.99 stops of DR or whatever. It is gonna have much more color sampling due to more pixels and if they are as good pixels as the one in the 50MP Sony sensor (or even if they are sightly worse, possible better!) there is just a lot more of them. Its gonna be splitting hairs regarding per pixel quality.

For that I do not doubt I'm sure it's the king of sensors as of now!

There are so many "if"'s for me: if it's BSI, and if it works with the Schneider 28mm XL, and if I can find a reliable ND solution for that 112mm center filter of the 28XL (leakage-free), and if I can manage to find a good copy of the 28XL, or if Rodenstock makes something else that is compatible and compact and wide enough (doing a better job than the 32HR) then... it's going to be impossible to resist  Nevertheless, if the 32HR works with it then I'm sure many tech cam users will be happy with it.

[Joe Towner]

Medium format is a niche. It's a small small percent of all cameras sold. So any competition, marketing, or awareness raising, helps everyone in medium format with a strong product. Our hardest task, by far, is getting people to come take a picture with our camera; once they are looking into any medium format solution (of any brand) they are far more likely to do so.

I keep offering up to folks in my local market to give it a try - not had a single taker yet - and that was with the 5DsR and the 645Z to shoot along side my H4D-50.  Given the new high megapixel offerings, it really needs to be driven home that all pixels are not created equal, and the only way to see it is in print.

Interesting to see if Leaf gets the 100MP chip, or if they just do a firmware 'update' to change the color render.  I would wager that Phase has an exclusive period on the chip, wouldn't be surprised if it was 12 months.

I think the new HDMI out will be a huge addition for learning videos - literally see what the camera does as the photographer / art director / etc work live on set.

[AlterEgo]

Doug, why sensor + isn't used on P1's Cmos backs?

http://www.phaseone.com/apsis/160409Sensorplus.pdf

"The  Phase  One  Sensor+  solution  to  the noise  problem  was  to  add  the  pixels together  inside  the  image  sensor,  before the  amplification  process. "

Sony needs to be able to sell sensors to others... hence it can't make on chip (on die) solutions that can't be sold to others... and to make different chips = less savings from scale.

[aztwang]

One of the perks of the job is doing my wedding photography with Phase One gear (along with Fuji or Canon as a second camera).

Having the leaf shutter lenses is absolutely game-changing for what kind of light and lighting you can use at a wedding. That's a big deal because even our 10k systems feature a full line of leaf shutter lenses. If you'd ever like to arrange a test just let me know .

Doug,

Off topic, I would love to see an article regarding an analysis/comparison in the highs and lows on shooting a wedding with your Phase One rig vs Nikon/Canon DSLR being you ACTUALLY DO shoot weddings on a regular basis.

[bjanes]

http://www.phaseone.com/apsis/160409Sensorplus.pdf

"The  Phase  One  Sensor+  solution  to  the noise  problem  was  to  add  the  pixels together  inside  the  image  sensor,  before the  amplification  process. "

Sony needs to be able to sell sensors to others... hence it can't make on chip (on die) solutions that can't be sold to others... and to make different chips = less savings from scale.

Hardware pixel binning is preferable to software binning (e.g. Photoshop downsizing). For example, consider 2x2 pixel binning as discussed here where four pixels are combined into one. If this is done in hardware, the 4 pixels are shifted into one prior to readout, and there is only one read noise contribution. In the case of software binning, 4 read noises are involved. Since read noise is so low with the new CMOS sensor, the advantage of sensor plus over software binning would be less than in the case of a CCD sensor with relatively high read noise.

The cited example is monochrome. Hardware pixel binning is considerably more complex with a color Bayer array.

Bill

[Ken R]

Do not get me wrong, I think this will be an incredible camera.  100MPx from Phase One.  Awesome, really awesome.  My point was that the door is wide open for competition in that they are using a Sony sourced sensor and they are implementing it on an Optical viewfinder camera.  I really do believe Sony will produce a mirrorless MF camera.  Time will tell.

There is just one problem. Lenses. Several of the Pentax newer 645 lenses are made to cover the 33x44mm format, just. IIRC the 28-45mm zoom is for 33x44mm sensor only. Ironically the older 645 lenses might work nicely although I would not expect them to get the best out of a 100mp sensor. Even the Hasselblad HCD lenses, the 24mm, 28mm and the 30-90mm only work with 1.1x crop or smaller sensors.

[Doug Peterson]

You guys use to mention seconds per frame (spf) rather than frames per second.

Sunscreen? Apply it anywhere you feel you need it.  That's more information than I need.

Phase One IQ3 100mp Technical Specs

1.4 frames per second in 14-bit mode
0.7 frames per second in 16-bit mode

[markymarkrb]

There is just one problem. Lenses. Several of the Pentax newer 645 lenses are made to cover the 33x44mm format, just. IIRC the 28-45mm zoom is for 33x44mm sensor only. Ironically the older 645 lenses might work nicely although I would not expect them to get the best out of a 100mp sensor. Even the Hasselblad HCD lenses, the 24mm, 28mm and the 30-90mm only work with 1.1x crop or smaller sensors.

Yes, Pentax might not be able to pull it off with their lens lineup without introducing some others.  I think we are more likely to see a Sony mirrorless MF camera with Zeiss lenses and adapters for all sorts of MF lenses and possibly a Fuji MF camera as I believe they are looking for a ways to one up their APS-C based mirrorless line and possibly skip 35mm FF mirrorless as it would undermine their X series cameras.

[nik]

Are you trading-in the Benz for the IQ3 100?

Sounds like a perfect first road trip for the new Benz.

[Ken R]

Its late in Europe now, hence the tranquility in the thread... 

[narikin]

With my DCamProf color profiling work I've looked at a few Sony high end CMOS sensors and their CFAs are if not identical very highly similar. You can use a A7r2 profile on a Pentax 645z for example. I never made any real attempt to actually find out exactly how similar they are. I very much doubt that Sony make custom mixes for different manufacturers though so I think all products based on the sony sensor of a particular model have the same CFAs, but the IR filter response can differ of course.

Ok, so if this is true, then we can reverse that process, and use the new IQ3-100 profiles on a Sony A7R2 in C1 9.0.2 ?

Getting to use ultimate quality Capture One profiles for a modern Sony sensor will be great. Yes they make 'generic' ones for A7R2 already, but if the ones from a new 100Mp Sony CMOS back are cross-usable for A7R2, then we should see an improvement, as Phase One refine their own camera's profiles to the Nth degree, whereas I have always had a hunch they don't do that with other manufacturers camera profiles.  (they are usually better than Lightroom, but not up to their own IQ backs profiles quality, imho)

[Edit: I just tried it, A7R2 files are indeed marginally better processed using IQ3-100 profiles - requires about 500k more to the K temp settings, but gives slightly more neutrality overall, a bit cleaner grays/whites/shadows plus slightly better shadow detail. It's a very fine difference, but I will set it as the new default for this camera now.]

[AlterEgo]

The cited example is monochrome.

cited example is



no ?

[BJL]

Actually, the film image of 645 is 56 x 41.5 mm, so the sensor is getting pretty close to "full 645 frame".

While we are splitting hairs over dB of DR and format sizes: even if "645 film format" was up 56x42mm depending on brand, mounts for transparencies cost about a mm along each edge, and printing with enlargers usually costs a bit off the edges of the image that digital printing does not, so yes: 53.7x40.4mm is close enough that we can all stop worrying about the dreaded and despised "digital crop".

My question is whether this sensor is for Phase One only.  With the previous Sony 44x33mm CMOS sensor, it seemed that Sony was selling to all possible users in order to get enough sales volume, so is it the same this time, or is Phase One dominant enough in the "full frame 645" that it has negotiated an exclusive, the way it did with several Dalsa sensors?

[eronald]

If people here really buy 50k backs, then this forum should be priced at least $10K/annum for dealers

Edmund

While we are splitting hairs over dB of DR and format sizes: even if it was up 56x42mm, depending on brand, mounts for transparencies cost about a mm along each edge and printing with enlargers usually costs a bit off the edges of the image, so yes, 53.7x40.4mm is close enough that we can all stop worrying about the dreaded "digital crop".

My question is whether this sensor is for Phase One only.  With the previous Sony 44x33mm CMOS sensor, it seemed that Sony was selling to all possible users in order to get enough sales volume, so is it the same this time, or is Phase One dominant enough in the "full frame 645" that it has negotiated an exclusive, the way it did with several Dalsa sensors?

[gavincato]

One of the perks of the job is doing my wedding photography with Phase One gear (along with Fuji or Canon as a second camera).

Having the leaf shutter lenses is absolutely game-changing for what kind of light and lighting you can use at a wedding. That's a big deal because even our 10k systems feature a full line of leaf shutter lenses. If you'd ever like to arrange a test just let me know .

Hey Doug,

I'm very much a natural light guy so leaf shutters don't really matter for me. I'm using a 645z & 1Dx's at weddings and it works very well. I'd love a larger chip phase one but when I tried the phase ones the demo p65+ I was offered which fit the budget was just too slow and the full frame xf series was too much $$ - I'm sure I'll get there eventually but not right now

[AlterEgo]

Ok, so if this is true, then we can reverse that process, and use the new IQ3-100 profiles on a Sony A7R2 in C1 9.0.2 ?

if you believe that CFA is the same for 100mp (or 50mp) as for A7R2 then you can simply rename the profiles (the file names) in C1 and use them right now...

[Wayne Fox]

My question is whether this sensor is for Phase One only.  With the previous Sony 44x33mm CMOS sensor, it seemed that Sony was selling to all possible users in order to get enough sales volume, so is it the same this time, or is Phase One dominant enough in the "full frame 645" that it has negotiated an exclusive, the way it did with several Dalsa sensors?

mmm ... maybe that explains the fire sale for Hasselblad backs in the past couple of months ... getting ready for a new line up.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Except that it is 100 ISO.

Just to say, low base ISO can be a good indication of large well capacity. Or non permissive filters, or low quantum efficiency.

Best regards
Erik

I would expect the samenbase Iso as A7r2 which I think is 200.

Edmund

[Theodoros]

mmm ... maybe that explains the fire sale for Hasselblad backs in the past couple of months ... getting ready for a new line up.

Could be the case... Surely Hasselblad seems to be moving their 50MP sensor as to be their entry level product which means that they are making space for larger sensors... Whether that will be the same Sony 100mp sensor or other remains to be seen... Also, the timing of the pricing policy suggests that these higher up sensors shouldn't be long before they appear...

Never the less, if Hasselblad uses the Sony 100mp sensor as well, that will mean that the MS versions will be of ...400mp of "true color" for the 6x version of the back...

[torger]

Phase One IQ3 100mp Technical Specs

1.4 frames per second in 14-bit mode
0.7 frames per second in 16-bit mode

Interesting, the 16 bit mode is probably new and may really produce 16 bit data in the raw files. Maybe those 15 bits of DR is true afterall