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Author Topic: hyperfocal focusing  (Read 10453 times)

sgwrx

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hyperfocal focusing
« on: October 27, 2015, 07:00:20 pm »

i was thinking about hyperfocal focusing/distance and it's either all or nothing isn't it?

meaning, you use the hyperfocal distance to focus at in order to pretty much get everything in frame to be in focus.

what you can't do is, get a foreground object in focus, then everything behind that object for the next say, 500ft to be out of focus, then beyond that 500ft to infinity to be in focus?

so lets say you were photographing a person standing 20ft away with say a field of flowers from 30ft - 500ft and a mountain several miles away.  there's no way to have the person in focus, then the field of flowers out of focus, but the distant mountain in focus.
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tom b

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 08:56:35 pm »

The answer to your quest is called Photoshop.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

rdonson

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 09:02:17 pm »

Think focus stacking.  As Tom points out that's a strength of Photoshop.
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Regards,
Ron

sgwrx

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 09:12:36 pm »

ok got it - not possible in one shot.  cool actually, never thought about using focus stacking that way.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 04:18:23 am »

ok got it - not possible in one shot.  cool actually, never thought about using focus stacking that way.

Hi,

Focus stacking is one way of achieving it. You need to shoot slightly wider than intended, because both images will have a different magnification factor, and the focus stacking algorithms will resize to get both images into registration. The narrower angle of view of the closer shot (with most lens designs) will dictate the image boundaries of the composite.

Another way would be by using software like Photoshop or Topaz Labs LensEffects, which allow to create/use a depth map (distance map) which guides the lens blur algorithms to add realistic blur that transitions between no blur and full blur with specific lens/aperture characteristics. So you start with a fully focused image and add blur in a controlled fashion. This also allows to create more complex (de-)focus transitions.

Cheers,
Bart
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tom b

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 06:16:51 am »

You can do it with one image, think…
Photoshop
Masks
Filters
Gradients
These are skills more associated with a graphic artist than a photographer, good luck.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

SanderKikkert

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 06:59:28 am »

This one seems to fit the bill, (foreground in focus then an area oof and then in focus again), anyone here any idea how this might have been done ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/quizz/4786321803/in/dateposted/

I would be inclined to think it was with a lot of downward tilt movement as the oof area lies beneath the flat plane straight forward from the camera, however it may well be something completely different, done in post.

I thinks it looks magnifficent.

Stumbled upon this via onlandscape (http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2015/10/endframe-bogna-patrycja-altman/)

Cheers, Sander

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Jose Viegas

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 07:13:30 am »

This one seems to fit the bill, (foreground in focus then an area oof and then in focus again), anyone here any idea how this might have been done ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/quizz/4786321803/in/dateposted/

I would be inclined to think it was with a lot of downward tilt movement as the oof area lies beneath the flat plane straight forward from the camera, however it may well be something completely different, done in post.

I thinks it looks magnifficent.

Stumbled upon this via onlandscape (http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2015/10/endframe-bogna-patrycja-altman/)

Cheers, Sander

That image could also be two different images stack together, one for the foreground and another the background with the trees, might not even be taken on the same place.
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Jimbo57

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2015, 08:45:38 am »


so lets say you were photographing a person standing 20ft away with say a field of flowers from 30ft - 500ft and a mountain several miles away.  there's no way to have the person in focus, then the field of flowers out of focus, but the distant mountain in focus.

Actually, with a 28mm lens (or shorter) at f/11 (or smaller), focussed on a point roughly 25 feet from the camera, that whole scene is likely to be perfecty acceptable "in focus".

If you want the person filling more of the frame, do it by cropping rather than moving closer.
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AFairley

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 11:27:31 am »

If memory serves from my large format days (it has been quite a while), you may be able to obtain such an effect (fore and back ground more in focus than mid ground) by using a tilt lens and tilting it at wide aperture.  Current practitioners will be able to tell you if I'm right.
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MarkL

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 03:07:56 pm »

so lets say you were photographing a person standing 20ft away with say a field of flowers from 30ft - 500ft and a mountain several miles away.  there's no way to have the person in focus, then the field of flowers out of focus, but the distant mountain in focus.

This would be one strange looking picture.
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Lightsmith

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 09:01:33 pm »

A distant mountain is not truly going to be in sharp focus at infinity to any degree unless you are using a super telephoto lens. Even with a 85-105mm lens the distant mountain will not be in sharp focus with the limited amount of magnification. There is also the subjective aspect of such a scene for the viewer and having the individual in sharp focus with a relatively large aperture of say f4, the flowers will be out of focus but the lack of sharp focus will be much less apparent with the distant mountain.

Use a 24mm lens for example and the mountain will be greatly diminished in its relative size in the scene as compared to anything in the foreground. This perspective distortion can only be overcome with a 100mm focal length that presents the scene in a manner that is closer to what we perceive when viewing the scene with our eyes.

The question I have with regard to hyperfocal focusing is in the real world with a foreground object at a distance of 10 feet from the camera and a middle ground that is 30 feet from the camera and a background mountain at miles from the camera does using the calculated hyperfocal distance for the lens provide the sharpest image or is it better to focus at the foreground object that is 10 feet away. I have not seen anyone empirically evaluating the two different approaches with actual images created out in the field.
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sgwrx

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 10:24:28 pm »

The question I have with regard to hyperfocal focusing is in the real world with a foreground object at a distance of 10 feet from the camera and a middle ground that is 30 feet from the camera and a background mountain at miles from the camera does using the calculated hyperfocal distance for the lens provide the sharpest image or is it better to focus at the foreground object that is 10 feet away. I have not seen anyone empirically evaluating the two different approaches with actual images created out in the field.

not understanding the physics behind it, i wondered to some extent the same thing.  and similarly are all areas in as good of focus as they would be if you focused on that area specifically regardless of whether or not other things are in focus.

i look at cell phone cameras, it's a tiny lens and sensor and pretty much everything seems in focus - for example when taking a shot of 4 or 5 people "at the game". so does lens size or sensor size majorly impact dof and how?  i know from my new full frame digital camera that oof areas are different than a smaller sensor - 6d compared to 7d.

thanks
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 04:34:35 am »

not understanding the physics behind it, i wondered to some extent the same thing.  and similarly are all areas in as good of focus as they would be if you focused on that area specifically regardless of whether or not other things are in focus.

i look at cell phone cameras, it's a tiny lens and sensor and pretty much everything seems in focus - for example when taking a shot of 4 or 5 people "at the game". so does lens size or sensor size majorly impact dof and how?  i know from my new full frame digital camera that oof areas are different than a smaller sensor - 6d compared to 7d.

Hi,

Smaller sensor cameras have shorter focal lengths, which thus magnify the optical detail/blur less, and as a consequence have more DOF.

Cheers,
Bart
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SanderKikkert

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 04:55:45 am »

The question I have with regard to hyperfocal focusing is in the real world with a foreground object at a distance of 10 feet from the camera and a middle ground that is 30 feet from the camera and a background mountain at miles from the camera does using the calculated hyperfocal distance for the lens provide the sharpest image or is it better to focus at the foreground object that is 10 feet away. I have not seen anyone empirically evaluating the two different approaches with actual images created out in the field.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

Remember that even within the range that is in focus according to hyperfocal math there is still within that range a difference in sharpness, the area close to the plane of focus appears (is) sharper then for example the extreme backend of the range, even though that would then still be 'acceptibly' sharp according to the formula.

If you want examples I strongly suggest doing some experiments yourself, work with different focal distances apertures etc. ,make notes while doing so and afterwards use your notes to check on screen how it all ended up looking.  A fun way to master how your different lenses beahve and how you can get the desired look you want/need ánd understand better how this stuff works. ;)

Cheers, Sander

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bjanes

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2015, 07:15:14 am »

Actually, with a 28mm lens (or shorter) at f/11 (or smaller), focussed on a point roughly 25 feet from the camera, that whole scene is likely to be perfecty acceptable "in focus".

If you want the person filling more of the frame, do it by cropping rather than moving closer.

The problem with depth of field and hyperfocal calculations is that the calculations (and depth of field markers on the lens) often assume a small print size (~8x10 inches) and a viewer with less than 20/20 vision. For a viewer with 20/20 vision and a print size of 16x24 inches, the depth of field is considerably less.

Here are the results for your parameters as calculated by the Cambridge in Color calculator:

Regards,

Bill
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elf

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2015, 03:04:02 am »

i was thinking about hyperfocal focusing/distance and it's either all or nothing isn't it?

meaning, you use the hyperfocal distance to focus at in order to pretty much get everything in frame to be in focus.

what you can't do is, get a foreground object in focus, then everything behind that object for the next say, 500ft to be out of focus, then beyond that 500ft to infinity to be in focus?

so lets say you were photographing a person standing 20ft away with say a field of flowers from 30ft - 500ft and a mountain several miles away.  there's no way to have the person in focus, then the field of flowers out of focus, but the distant mountain in focus.

It all depends on where each object is in relation to the focus plane.  If the person and the mountain are on the focus plane and the flowers are not, then you could make the desired photograph.  I'd recommend reading everything Harold Merklinger has written on the subject.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2015, 03:08:24 pm »

This would be one strange looking picture.
just what I was thinking ...
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FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2015, 10:41:52 pm »

You can get the desired effect in one shot, with limited composition options, by using a "split field" filter, which is like a close-up filter cut in half.

Allen Bourgeois

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Re: hyperfocal focusing
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2016, 08:43:20 pm »

I use the DoF scales on my lens.

If you are using a view camera you can control a lot by tilting the front lens board.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 08:48:58 pm by Allen Bourgeois »
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