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Author Topic: Sony and Lula  (Read 7546 times)

aragdog

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Sony and Lula
« on: September 19, 2015, 11:40:23 am »

I was in the French Quarter with some out of town friends who were here to take some photos.  I know that LULA is coming here for a workshop but then I will be out of town on business for most of the visit.  My reason for writing here is here we were in 95 degree heat lugging big Nikon SLR's and lenses.  So near heart attacks a person walks up with a Sony A7RII and that was so light.  By agreement it seems that us very old guys will have to make some switches.  Thanks Kevin and the Boss for advising us and now if you cannot lug this stuff around, join the crowd as we will.  So a lot of Nikon for a fire sale.
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michael

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 12:13:06 pm »

It's fascinating that for all their product planning and market research, some companies have simply ignored the very real demographic change caused by an aging population.

Michael
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PeterAit

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 12:23:14 pm »

I recall, 30 years ago, happily hauling my 4x5 camera, a husky tripod, couple of lenses, a bunch of film holders, spot meter, loupe, shroud, and other necessities up and down hills and valleys. I could not do it now.
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Herbc

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 12:27:27 pm »

Been there- used to have an RB67 hanging around my neck.  Sony makes sense to anybody, unless the big dslr's have a feature that Sony doesn't.
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aragdog

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 01:17:18 pm »

Heck RB, used to run around with that and a Hassy with a case and a bunch of lenses.  When I say a case I mean a Halliburton.  So what a fan I was.  Now at 76 cannot do that at all, knee replacement and all.  So on to whatever is light.  I agree times are a changing.
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rdonson

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 01:22:48 pm »

I do enjoy the smaller, lighter body and lenses of mirrorless gear, especially APS-C.  There are other reasons for my transition too.  For most of what I photograph these days there is no perceptible gain in using my DSLR.  With mirrorless I also don't have to worry about front/back focus adjustments.  Finally, with my Fuji X-T1 I just simply like the controls better and how it feels in my hand.   
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Regards,
Ron

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2015, 04:56:14 pm »

It's fascinating that for all their product planning and market research, some companies have simply ignored the very real demographic change caused by an aging population.

Hum... maybe... or they looked at a world map and realized that we were mostly irrelevant compared to the growth in China, India and AP South? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 05:37:44 pm »

It's fascinating that for all their product planning and market research, some companies have simply ignored the very real demographic change caused by an aging population.

Michael

The average new car buyer in France now is ... 54 years old, I read in the newspaper today. Kids move to cities when young, don't drive and later and don't buy new cars.

Edmund
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 05:49:27 pm »

The average new car buyer in France now is ... 54 years old, I read in the newspaper today. Kids move to cities when young, don't drive and later and don't buy new cars.

Edmund
Maybe parents buy cars for their children. ;D
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 06:25:29 pm »

The average new car buyer in France now is ... 54 years old, I read in the newspaper today. Kids move to cities when young, don't drive and later and don't buy new cars.

Anyone who has tried driving in Paris should be able to understand why car ownership is seen by younger urban generations as a problem rather than as a solution...

The problem with cars isn't really the spec of the cars, is it the environment around the car, starting by the attitude of other drivers. ;) A car should be considered as one element of a super complex inter connected system made up of roads, people and other road users. The only real solution for cars in urban settings is a lot less cars followed by owners giving up their freedom to drive in the selfish way they want in favor of global optimization (the Singapore model).

Cameras are much more simple in that their main functions are a lot less impacted by the matrix.

Besides, cameras are currently mostly global products (same product/same spec for all worldwide customers) and the strategic technological investments and main product development efforts are mostly driven by an identification of the main worldwide trend. Which of developped countries population aging or developping nations increasing buying power is the key trend is debatable year on year, the resulting prorities are probably very different:
- compactness for the developped elder -> mirrorless?
- status and perception of absolute performance for the younger developping -> DSLR?

Cars, on the other hand, are now mostly developped locally on top of modular platforms and are targetting narrow population niches when need be. The car industry is a lot closer of being able to deliver real mass customization.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 07:18:09 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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eronald

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2015, 08:09:25 pm »

Bernard

That all sounds very profound. Somebody less smart and technically less savvy than you might point out the obvious: There is a traffic matrix (roads) for cars, and a traffic matrix (the interwebs) for pictures. And a decent modern SLR or mirrorless's pictures cannot ride the interwebs without catching a ride via a computer, while a phone is a natural inhabitant of the information highway.  Which is why cameras are losing traction, regardless of weight, MP or features. Sorry Michael, paper is so ... wait, I think Bernard has the word ... passé  :)

Edmund


Anyone who has tried driving in Paris should be able to understand why car ownership is seen by younger urban generations as a problem rather than as a solution...

The problem with cars isn't really the spec of the cars, is it the environment around the car, starting by the attitude of other drivers. ;) A car should be considered as one element of a super complex inter connected system made up of roads, people and other road users. The only real solution for cars in urban settings is a lot less cars followed by owners giving up their freedom to drive in the selfish way they want in favor of global optimization (the Singapore model).

Cameras are much more simple in that their main functions are a lot less impacted by the matrix.

Besides, cameras are currently mostly global products (same product/same spec for all worldwide customers) and the strategic technological investments and main product development efforts are mostly driven by an identification of the main worldwide trend. Which of developped countries population aging or developping nations increasing buying power is the key trend is debatable year on year, the resulting prorities are probably very different:
- compactness for the developped elder -> mirrorless?
- status and perception of absolute performance for the younger developping -> DSLR?

Cars, on the other hand, are now mostly developped locally on top of modular platforms and are targetting narrow population niches when need be. The car industry is a lot closer of being able to deliver real mass customization.

Cheers,
Bernard
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rdonson

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2015, 09:17:31 pm »

...... Kids move to cities when young, don't drive and later and don't buy new cars.

Edmund

I'm delighted to hear that.  I wish more would move to the huge metropolitan areas of the world.  Without cars they'll likely stay there and avoid the peaceful countrysides that I inhabit.  Of course, many feel that the countrysides should provide them with energy, food and water but that's a different story.
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Regards,
Ron

chez

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 10:26:34 pm »

It's fascinating that for all their product planning and market research, some companies have simply ignored the very real demographic change caused by an aging population.

Michael

Aging demographic that actually has some disposable money.
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MatthewCromer

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2015, 10:29:41 pm »

The dSLR makers have a big problem.

Their customer base is aging to the point they don't want to carry big cameras anymore, and the younger generation is not interested in giant flappy-mirror cameras that suck for video.
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adias

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2015, 11:44:35 pm »

Bernard

That all sounds very profound. Somebody less smart and technically less savvy than you might point out the obvious: There is a traffic matrix (roads) for cars, and a traffic matrix (the interwebs) for pictures. And a decent modern SLR or mirrorless's pictures cannot ride the interwebs without catching a ride via a computer, while a phone is a natural inhabitant of the information highway.  Which is why cameras are losing traction, regardless of weight, MP or features. Sorry Michael, paper is so ... wait, I think Bernard has the word ... passé  :)

Edmund

 :D
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2015, 11:55:21 pm »

Bernard

That all sounds very profound. Somebody less smart and technically less savvy than you might point out the obvious: There is a traffic matrix (roads) for cars, and a traffic matrix (the interwebs) for pictures. And a decent modern SLR or mirrorless's pictures cannot ride the interwebs without catching a ride via a computer, while a phone is a natural inhabitant of the information highway.  Which is why cameras are losing traction, regardless of weight, MP or features. Sorry Michael, paper is so ... wait, I think Bernard has the word ... passé  :)

:-)

Cheers,
Bernard

bokehcambodia

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2015, 03:40:47 am »

I think Americans especially still like LARGE cameras, and i can see it here in SE Asia that the size of the camera/white L-lens is a status symbol for many shooters.
But mirrorless is fast catching up in the rest of SE Asia, outside of Japan.

Hum... maybe... or they looked at a world map and realized that we were mostly irrelevant compared to the growth in China, India and AP South? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Rob C

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2015, 04:12:55 am »

It isn't just a matter of heavy vs light cameras as you age.

To a large extent, it also becomes a matter of mental maturity, of eventually knowing what works and what doesn't.

Like others here have, I, too, wandered parts of the world, poor shoulder laden with either three Nikons and at least seven lenses or two 'blads and three lenses. I was younger, but also had a real requirment: work. Then, I had to be capable of attempting a wide range of images on any single assignment, so all that I owned of the format that was relevant had to travel with me.

Today, I'm not young, neither do I have photographic responsibilities. Today I am just another amateur going about the business of perhaps finding a single picture worth spending time on at the computer.

So, does it make sense to cart around a load of stuff that prevents me from going to the loo should I need to, simply because there's nobody around to keep an eye on my junk as I use the washroom? Am I likey to want to shoot something happening a hundred yards away from me – if I can't even tell what that might be? No.

Freedom of mind is an essential part of creativity.

Putting a single camera/lens combination over your shoulder as you leave the house is the answer to pretty much everything: it frees the mind to concentrate in one direction, which is really what concentration implies.

Travel simple; free your eye. If even one camera/lens is too much, then it may be time to think again and do something else. As I wrote elsewhere in LuLa, you can find a helluva lot to shoot just at home, if you but look for it. If you can't see it there, what makes you imagine that you'll see it somewhere else? Your old slr/dslr can give you all you ever need if your stuff just ends up on the web. Why impoverish yourself buying loads of obsolescent junk?

In the end, you can't buy yourself great vision.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 09:53:13 am by Rob C »
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2015, 07:56:17 am »

The average new car buyer in France now is ... 54 years old, I read in the newspaper today. Kids move to cities when young, don't drive and later and don't buy new cars.

Edmund

I 10 years from now (or sooner) nobody will buy a car in the city anyway as selfdriving electric cars will take you around where you want ordered by smartphone apps. It will also limit health threatening diesel busses and make most taxi drivers unemployed ... I find no real analogy with cameras though. Except that at that time phones with multiple lenses will have replaced and made redundant most cameras.

petermfiore

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Re: Sony and Lula
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2015, 09:48:05 am »

Travel simple; free your eye. If even one camera/lens is too much, then it may be time to think again and do something else. As I wrote elsewhere in LuLa, you can find a helluva lot to shoot just at home, if you but look for it. If you can't see it there, what makes you imagine that you'll see it somewhere else? Your old slr/dslr can give you all you ever need if your stuff just ends up on the web. Why impoverish yourself buying loads of obsolescent junk?

In the end, you can't buy yourself great vision.

Seeing is the Art...how we present that is our voice choice.

Peter
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