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Author Topic: Leica Review  (Read 27105 times)

Kolor-Pikker

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2015, 08:39:52 am »

Camera owners are remarkably unwilling to admit that cameras are luxury items. They feel the need to justify the prices.

Why? Just put your man pants on and say "I spent $20K on a camera because I can, and the small but measurable benefits are worth it to me"

You don't normally see BMW owners trying to justify the car on the grounds that it serves their grocery shopping needs. It's about owning an awesome car that's fun to own, that looks nice, and has some small but tangible benefits over a Chevy. It it worth the $50K (or whatever premium you paid) additional? If you're asking that question, you've missed the point.

Is the slightly increased.. whatever.. worth the extra $10K? Who cares? It's a Leica S. It's has tangible benefits, but it is also a luxury item.

Probably because not one spec of the S007 is superior to the 645Z, so you can't even brag that it's objectively better, only that it's more fun to use (which having used the S I honestly agree with). You are paying a tax to be able to use the S lenses, which themselves are more expensive than any other MF lenses outside of Rodie tech wides. In before "you can adapt lenses from other systems", yes, but that defeats the purpose of having the best.

Accomplished photographers like bcooter could use a phone camera and still get a good shot, to me it seems like he uses an S because he is comfortable with it. At his level, workflow costs more than any camera, but I think you can count the number of people on this forum on one hand who fall into that category, for everyone else they have to balance specs with price instead of thinking solely about the look, otherwise I'd own three MF cameras for different occasions.
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telyt

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2015, 09:03:17 am »

If you were handed this camera blindfolded with no prior knowledge, would you have felt the same way?  I wonder if the little red Leica symbol is somehow hypnotic?

When I was first handed a Leica I wasn't blindfolded.  I was contemptuous.  I believed that the fawning over the camera was nauseating brand worship (the dot wasn't red back then).  The camera was under-spec'd, over-priced and within days it was my favorite.  A little objectivity goes a long way.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 09:24:05 am by wildlightphoto »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2015, 11:58:53 am »

If you were handed this camera blindfolded with no prior knowledge, would you have felt the same way?  I wonder if the little red Leica symbol is somehow hypnotic?

Who is sarcastic now?

I have 40+ years of involvement with photography. I have or had Canons, Pentax LX, Hasselblads, Rollei, and Contaxes. Plenty of "hypnotic" material already there. I used Leica R (friend's) for a week. There was a time in my life when I could afford Leica (that was before digital, when certain cameras started to compete with luxury cars in price). I was actually in store once, handling then-latest R model, with my mind already made up that I should buy it. But after having it in my hands and looking through the viewfinder, I changed my mind. It just wasn't that different or impressive.

So, no, the little red Leica symbol isn't hypnotic for me. But handling the S was a completely different experience.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2015, 03:28:26 pm »

Who is sarcastic now?

I have 40+ years of involvement with photography. I have or had Canons, Pentax LX, Hasselblads, Rollei, and Contaxes. Plenty of "hypnotic" material already there. I used Leica R (friend's) for a week. There was a time in my life when I could afford Leica (that was before digital, when certain cameras started to compete with luxury cars in price). I was actually in store once, handling then-latest R model, with my mind already made up that I should buy it. But after having it in my hands and looking through the viewfinder, I changed my mind. It just wasn't that different or impressive.

So, no, the little red Leica symbol isn't hypnotic for me. But handling the S was a completely different experience.

There is no sarcasm at all in my statement.  There is a long history of perception bias in many fields including photography.  I too have a 40+ year involvement in photography and have used several different cameras over the years.  I had a couple of old Leicas (a model III and M3) that on of my father's friends gave me (one of his hobbies was restoring old Leicas) that were fun to use.  They took good pictures just as my various Nikons have.  Adjusting for sensor size, my key point (which maybe is being missed) is that the all can take good pictures.  Look at the final three images in Michael's review comparing the Pentax, the new Sony, and the new Leica.  Sure one can see some differences as these are 100% crops and are not real world examples of something what would be hung on a wall or seen in a magazine advert.  As Michael notes the Pentax seems to have an advantage over these two, though I imagine 13 x 19 prints of the original image printed up might be very difficult to tell apart.  To me photography is about the image and equipment is a means to an end.  In the same way a car is a good mode of transportation, a Porsche Cayenne will not get me to the grocery store or out to one of the parks where I do a lot photography any better than my Honda CRV (though it will undoubtedly cost more and be more expensive to maintain).  Similarly, my 1927 Conover grand piano plays very well and sounds good in my living room and I doubt a Steinway would be much different other than more expensive.

The bottom line is to each his own.  If one derives great pleasure from a Porsche, a Steinway, or a Leica camera that's fine; just don't rule out perception bias when it comes to making choices.

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Telecaster

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2015, 04:56:05 pm »

Perception bias hurts no-one when it involves subjective things like choice of photographic tools. It has a lot to do with why we have preferences in the first place. The harm comes from objectifying such choices or preferences. "This xxx is best for me, therefore it should be best for everyone. And if it's not best for you, there's something wrong with you."

And, in my experience, perception/confirmation bias runs strongly both ways when it comes to Leica. More so than with other photo brands. Some folks get an endorphin kick from owning & (maybe) using Leicas. Other folks get the same kick from disliking & denigrating them.

-Dave-
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 04:58:07 pm by Telecaster »
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MHMG

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2015, 05:16:11 pm »

And, in my experience, perception/confirmation bias runs strongly both ways when it comes to Leica. More so than with other photo brands. Some folks get an endorphin kick from owning & (maybe) using Leicas. Other folks get the same kick from disliking & denigrating them.

-Dave-

Well said ;)
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amolitor

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2015, 07:09:56 pm »

So what if the logo is hypnotic?

We're in the land of luxury items. The branding is part of the experience.

Let's say I buy a Leica and I tell you "it works just like a Nikon, I bought it because of the brand, and i paid $16,000 for it, so there" and then you tell me I'm a fool to waste my money on such frivolous things.

I'm gonna look at the CaNikon in your hand and tell you the same thing. Isn't there something better you could have done with your $599.95, or your $4000 or whatever you spent? You're frivolous too. You bought a toy with which, more than likely, you take pictures that nobody cares about a damn except you. Why didn't you invest that money? Or donate to a worthy cause? Because you're frivolous.
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HSakols

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2015, 11:17:42 pm »

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Isaac

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2015, 02:12:24 am »

"For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?"

    "Oh!" cried Elizabeth, "I am excessively diverted."
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JohnBrew

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2015, 07:20:36 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2WzQzxuoA

Love this. Forwarded it to my wife who is an administrator at a college where she has to deal with the same stuff from students.
BTW, the Leica logo has no attraction for me which is why I shoot an M-P  ;D

Kolor-Pikker

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2015, 07:53:03 am »

Black insulation tape is a lot cheaper ;-)

Heheh... next time someone asks me what favorite camera brand is, I'll answer "gaffers tape".
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JV

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2015, 09:35:53 pm »

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adias

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2015, 01:32:19 am »

Some more images here:
http://www.jupitersnake.com/review/leica-s-typ-007-s-007/

The Leitz photos' look is unique, no doubt. The MTF curves do not tell the full story.

To note that this 'look' clips the blacks for full effect. The opposite of the current 'trend' of 'recovering the shadows'. :)

Great photos by someone who understands the tool and uses it properly. Well done!
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tjv

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Re: Leica Review
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2015, 06:34:15 pm »

In terms of an SLR, the S is the best camera I've ever had the pleasure of using. My all time favourite camera (other than technical cameras) is the Mamiya 7, and the S is the only thing I've used that I'd seriously consider using instead for the kind of work I used the Mamiya for – save for the 3:2 format, which I'm not fond of. I had every intention actually to buy an S006 and demoed one twice, thinking I'd get a split prism screen with markings for 4x5 format. Anyway, long story short, I ended up getting a Leaf Credo 60 to use on a Techno as I can't live without in camera movements. When I saw that the 006 was selling for $6KUSD recently, I nearly fell off my chair. For those that appreciate what it offers, it was an absolute steal. I hope this new price for a new 007 is a sign of things to come for the system. Keep the body priced relatively fairly, and charge more for the lenses.
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