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Author Topic: A7RII initial thoughts and images  (Read 196031 times)

adrian tyler

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2015, 11:04:18 am »

Adrian

I just looked at your web site. I was thinking, looking at that woods image that it is in some ways the exact opposite of Bill Atkinson's clean and detached spacious views, and that it was astonishing to see such an exceptional test shot. Now I understand.

If I were you I would do some serious testing of the color discrimination in the greens; you might find it useful to use a red or yellow filter and rebalance the channels. Also, I'd hang on to that 50, it is remarkable, and my feeling is it was designed with *precisely* this sensor in mind. The A7IIR images can be enlarged over pixel size when that lens is used. Sony/Zeiss might have some other lenses with the same properties.

BTW, as you certainly did some testing, what is your feeling regarding the H4D40 and 60?


thanks for the advice edmund, i'll take a look into that, my final objective is the print (or bookwork) and as you know what we get on a print is quite a lot less what we get in the capture. regarding the digital MF equipment, i never went down that route, i used MF & LF film up 'till the D3 & D3x & D800e with the shift lenses. but i always loved the freedom of using the M6 with the 50 & 35 summicrons and this little sony gives me the M6 compactness with the quality easily surpassing a well scanned 6x9 neg, it's really a great time for us camera users!!!
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Quentin

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2015, 11:07:57 am »

Nownow, we have better taste in walls over here.

One can only hope so  ;D
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adrian tyler

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2015, 11:34:59 am »

yes, it's a post modern wall image of a late 19th century building
making it a metaphoric statement regarding time, decay, etc... ad infinitum...
;-)
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Quentin

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2015, 11:57:19 am »

yes, it's a post modern wall image of a late 19th century building
making it a metaphoric statement regarding time, decay, etc... ad infinitum...
;-)

Rest assured, Adrian, that your wall looks very similar to my walls - that is, utterly useless as a tool for assessing image quality, but a cracking good wall nonetheless  ;D
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, Arbitrato

adrian tyler

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2015, 12:31:21 pm »

Rest assured, Adrian, that your wall looks very similar to my walls - that is, utterly useless as a tool for assessing image quality, but a cracking good wall nonetheless  ;D


jajaaa! i'll tell the neighbours...
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eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2015, 12:35:36 pm »

Outside my walled-in window just now.

This is what happens if you use lysergic acid instead of acetic as a stop bath :)

E.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 12:38:03 pm by eronald »
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NancyP

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2015, 02:27:46 pm »

re: wall photographers...... the correct term is "orthogonal architectural photographers"   :D
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Quentin

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2015, 03:02:49 pm »

I lied.  Here is a wall picture.  Sorry, orthogonal architectural image...  ;) 

Actually its a shot of street art near my London flat that  just happens to be on a wall.  

This time, it was taken with the A7RII and the venerable 35mm Zeiss F/2.8 that we all bought when we go an A7R, until something more exciting came along to replace it. Its actually a good lens, quite highly rated on DxO, if you pay attention to that kind of thing.  Not quite the 55mm, but good.

It was taken handheld at 1/160 sec, ISO 100, F/4.5, with steady shot doing its worst.



Probably could squeeze a bit more if I had tripod mounted the camera.

And finally, a clematis that is climbing though our weeping silver pear, shot with the same lens.  Not great weather for botanical shots, but a lovely morning nonetheless.  And a very sharp clematis



open each image in a new tab for a slightly larger version.


« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 03:06:46 pm by Quentin »
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davidgp

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2015, 04:03:04 pm »

On Landscape just published a short comparison between A7rII, A7r and 5Dsr

http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2015/08/sony-a7rii-compared-with-sony-a7r-and-canon-5dsr/

lots of r's... it must be the trendy word...

Quentin

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2015, 05:19:10 pm »

Thanks for the link.  Impressive result for the A7RII.
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eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2015, 06:13:11 pm »

Thanks for the link.  Impressive result for the A7RII.

I stand by my opinion that the color discrimination in the greens of the A7RII has been traded for higher ISO.
But a filter might help.

Edmund
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NancyP

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2015, 08:04:34 pm »

The OnLandscape link is interesting, the comment "Use the Sony when you are too drunk to expose correctly" is priceless.  ::)
That being said, for those who do a lot of super-high-dynamic-range type shooting without benefit of filters, the new Sony looks very worthwhile.
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LKaven

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2015, 08:15:35 pm »

yes, it's a post modern wall image of a late 19th century building
making it a metaphoric statement regarding time, decay, etc... ad infinitum...
;-)

Exactly.  DPR is "just brick".  We're more Kubrick.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2015, 11:35:27 pm »

Some posters at Fredmiranda claim that the magnified view in the EVF is much worse than that of the a7r.

They compare it to the much maligned D800 zoomed live view, which suggests agressive line skipping.

How do you guys feel about this?

Cheers,
Bernard

adrian tyler

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2015, 01:34:56 am »

I stand by my opinion that the color discrimination in the greens of the A7RII has been traded for higher ISO.
But a filter might help.

Edmund

bear in mid edmund that the test shot was made in the most brutal spanish summer sunlight at 1000m in the toledan mountains, the heat was stifling... that intense direct sunlight tends to flatten everything & turn greens to yellow... i'm not saying your observation is wrong but it'd be worth further tests in more natural light.

bernard,
i can't compare to the live view on the a7r, but the "focus magnifier," at higher asa's on both the a7ii and a7rii are just adequate, slightly better than the d800e, it does the job, but by no means great. with normal light and low asa the "focus magnifier" looks great however.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 03:06:46 am by adrian tyler »
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2015, 04:13:12 am »

Paulo must be right, in Switzerland the current price is around CHF 3700 ($3820 or €3490)…

The camera is officially launched today in my local photo store, priced at 3685,00 €... for reference, in the same shop:

5DMKIII - 2890,00 €
5Ds - 3595,00 €
5DsR - 3795,00 €

The 5DMKIII has been around for a while, so the price has gone down a bit. The other two are still fairly recent, with comparable prices to the Sony.

And yes, here in Portugal, we also get reamed by 23% VAT...

francois

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2015, 07:23:24 am »


And yes, here in Portugal, we also get reamed by 23% VAT...


Swiss VAT is only 8% but I tend to think that end user prices are similar (or higher) in Switzerland and Europe.
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Francois

AreBee

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2015, 07:33:42 am »

Bernard,

Quote
Some posters at Fredmiranda claim that the magnified view in the EVF is much worse than that of the a7r.

They compare it to the much maligned D800 zoomed live view, which suggests agressive line skipping.

How do you guys feel about this?

Nonchalant.
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Torbjörn Tapani

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2015, 07:55:17 am »

Some posters at Fredmiranda claim that the magnified view in the EVF is much worse than that of the a7r.

They compare it to the much maligned D800 zoomed live view, which suggests agressive line skipping.

How do you guys feel about this?

Cheers,
Bernard

Magnified view in EVF? Is it the same on the screen? If it is something like the D800/E that would be a major disappointment. I use the screen to focus in near dark, no easy feat on the D800E.
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eronald

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Re: A7RII initial thoughts and images
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2015, 09:50:52 am »

bear in mid edmund that the test shot was made in the most brutal spanish summer sunlight at 1000m in the toledan mountains, the heat was stifling... that intense direct sunlight tends to flatten everything & turn greens to yellow... i'm not saying your observation is wrong but it'd be worth further tests in more natural light.


If you look at that horrible image I posted, with the inverted channels, you can see how well my junkworthy 1Ds3 discriminates the  *color shades* inside the leaves. I have no particular love for this camera, but you are doubtless aware of its reputation, uses and limitations: In its day it was Canon's studio and MF replacement product, a slow camera whose images degrade around ISO 400, but intended to convey nuance.

Here is a similarly inspired treatment of Quentin's image above, and you can see there is simply not that much color information in that image. My take on this is that Sony decided to capture and encode as much luminance information as they could in the available 14 bits (?) of DR, with the intent of allowing people to shoot for movies in available light, and they set the design priority on capturing and encoding luminance information rather than color differentiation. A different set of priorities would have meant 2 stops less DR and more precise color, which is basically the tradeoff on those old CCD backs and early studio oriented CMOS cameras. Contrarywise to the way everyone else here expects the laws of physics to be waived, I still believe in conservation laws in physics, and the in the no free lunch theorem.

In the full afternoon shadow in Paris, my shot was soft as with difficulty I eked out 1/80@F8@ISO400 on my ancient 1DsIII, precisely because the color filters on this camera are very orthogonal so it is not very sensitive, and to shoot it higher means destroying the color.
 
Do some more testing, by all means, but I think I've now seen enough images here and elsewhere to reach a conclusion; however every camera has advantages and disadvantages, and this one can certainly see deep into both shadow and sky, in a unique way. If it is at the price of some evanescent shades of yellow-green and green and blue green which most men would not percieve, who cares?  In exchange, one will get well defined and textured images of the clouds above a landscape. The A7IIR is certainly the camera of the year. And if I may be allowed to say so, I think you have a very nice sample of an extraordinary 50mm lens that is almost symbiotic with that body.

I'm sure everybody here will tell you that I'm an idiot who understands nothing about digital cameras and even less about color. You can come back in a few months and tell us what you have learnt from experience :)

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 10:32:56 am by eronald »
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