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Author Topic: When will Sony enter medium format market?  (Read 33350 times)

yashima

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When will Sony enter medium format market?
« on: June 13, 2015, 12:37:44 pm »

Do you see Sony will enter medium format market in the near future or do you think Sony will be quite happy to dominate FF and stay being sensor supplier for MFDB?

Personally I would love to see an MF version of A7rII, 80MPx, 4K, with AF/MF adapter for other lens lines (think Contax 645 Zeiss with faster AF!)



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synn

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 12:48:46 pm »

I believe they will. They have enough electronics knowhow and a capable optics partner in Zeiss.
I also believe that they will do so while making their offering clearly differentiated from the existing solutions.

What I don't believe is that it will be something to satisfy the fantasies of bargain hunters dreaming of a 3-4K MF camera.
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yashima

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 12:51:54 pm »

10K for the above spec would be phenomenal, and I believe doable by Sony
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 01:01:51 pm »

Hi,

I don't think so. Sony will deliver CMOS sensors to anyone willing to pay, but I don't expect they will go into medium format themselves.

Best regards
Erik


Do you see Sony will enter medium format market in the near future or do you think Sony will be quite happy to dominate FF and stay being sensor supplier for MFDB?

Personally I would love to see an MF version of A7rII, 80MPx, 4K, with AF/MF adapter for other lens lines (think Contax 645 Zeiss with faster AF!)




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Erik Kaffehr
 

synn

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 01:03:39 pm »

10K for the above spec would be phenomenal, and I believe doable by Sony

I agree with you.
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gerald.d

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 01:04:12 pm »

I'm absolutely certain they will.

They've recently got very serious in the high res audio game, with one of the best high res portable audio player/pre-amp combinations on the market.

They're not afraid of going after the top end niches, and I don't see any reason why this should be any different.

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synn

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2015, 01:06:04 pm »

I'm absolutely certain they will.

They've recently got very serious in the high res audio game, with one of the best high res portable audio player/pre-amp combinations on the market.



OT, but my DN 850 delights me every single time I use it!
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gerald.d

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 01:17:11 pm »

OT, but my DN 850 delights me every single time I use it!

More OT. I'm taking about the NW-ZX2 and PHA-3 combo. Do NOT audition this gear. I did, and ended up buying them both and Audeze LCD-3's.

Could have got a decent lens for that lot!
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synn

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 01:27:02 pm »

I did, and as much as it hurt me, I didn't go for it. My CFO would kill me if I did! ;D
Settling for a Creative E5/ Fiio X1/ iPod touch/ Bowers & Wilkins P7 combo for my mobile high res audio thirst now.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 01:32:31 pm by synn »
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ndevlin

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 02:03:34 pm »

Sure hope they do. But no one (but them) knows.  They would have to put in a great deal of R&D money, on at-best a break-even sort of proposition.  Not sure it's that attractive a market. 

But I'd sure be interested in buying one.

- N.
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synn

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 02:09:55 pm »

Sure hope they do. But no one (but them) knows.  They would have to put in a great deal of R&D money, on at-best a break-even sort of proposition.  Not sure it's that attractive a market. 

But I'd sure be interested in buying one.

- N.

Touch screen phones were an "At best, break even" market in a world of flip phones, before Apple had a go at it.
Sometimes you just gotta take a leap of faith and Sony is the kind of company that does it. I have my hopes up! :)
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Chris Livsey

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 02:12:28 pm »

do you think Sony will be quite happy to dominate FF

Dominate? In sensors I presume?

Sony's market share in interchangeable lens cameras (mirrorless and DSLRs) was 11% last year (compared to Nikon’s claimed 34% and Canon’s >40%). 
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JV

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 02:31:02 pm »

Dominate? In sensors I presume?

Sony's market share in interchangeable lens cameras (mirrorless and DSLRs) was 11% last year (compared to Nikon’s claimed 34% and Canon’s >40%). 

+1.  Sony has about 30% market share in the mirrorless market leading Olympus by not that much...

The mirrorless market still has a long way to go before it catches up with DSLR market...

At this stage saying that Sony dominates the FF market is stretching it a bit...
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ciccio

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2015, 05:06:18 pm »

2016 you will see a medium format full frame sony for sure.
best.
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hjulenissen

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2015, 05:23:40 pm »

I don't think so. Sony will deliver CMOS sensors to anyone willing to pay, but I don't expect they will go into medium format themselves.
They have certainly been aggressively testing out concepts all over the place. It seems that they have the muscle to do so in order to see what will float.

If they continue that path, then I guess that a RX1 on steroids or A9 (54MP MF?) is possible. I won't dare to guess if it is likely.

-h
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Gel

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2015, 07:38:23 pm »

It depends on Sony's game plan. They've cornered the sensor market and sell their own camera bodies. I guess they'd leave Canon and Nikon alone but Medium format could be something they'd enter into.

It boils down as simple as this, a few years ago there was no full frame compacts (or what we'd consider small cameras) - Now we have them, everywhere. So the next logical step is up.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2015, 07:42:24 pm »

If they continue that path, then I guess that a RX1 on steroids or A9 (54MP MF?) is possible. I won't dare to guess if it is likely.

If Leica can sell a Q at 4200 US$ with a good 24mp FF sensor, Sony will be able to sell a RX2 with a great 50mp larger sensor for 5,000 US$. How compact the 35mm lens could be is the only question that could threaten the concept IMHO.

So this is my bet too.

Cheers,
Bernard

D Fuller

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2015, 08:15:55 pm »

+1.  Sony has about 30% market share in the mirrorless market leading Olympus by not that much...

The mirrorless market still has a long way to go before it catches up with DSLR market...

At this stage saying that Sony dominates the FF market is stretching it a bit...

Not so sure I agree with this. The casual DSLR market is already shrinking. The only thing that keeps it at its current levels is the perception by the general public that "pros use Nikon and Canon, so they must be good."

There are only a very few things that have kept the DSLR market ahead of the mirrorless market for pros. Chief among them are investment in a lens system, autofocus and optical viewfinders. If Sony has cracked the autofocus problem with the new camera, that will leave optical viewfinders and standing investment in lenses. In the motion world, optical viewfinders are, at this point, only available on a tiny segment of very high-end cameras used by very seasoned pros. Nobody else cares. And that change happened very quickly.

So the only thing holding Sony back from dominating the FF market is current investment in the other guys' lenses. If they keep doing what they're doing, that may not be as much of a barrier as we might think. Especially as one of the chief attractions of the E-mount is that its short flange-focal distance makes just about every lens adaptable to it.

Now for medium format, the story might be different, but imagine, for a moment, that Zeiss, who is partnered with Sony for lenses, wanted to breathe new life into the Contax 645 platform...

Mirrorless Contax anyone?

DAF
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2015, 09:00:20 pm »

So the only thing holding Sony back from dominating the FF market is current investment in the other guys' lenses. If they keep doing what they're doing, that may not be as much of a barrier as we might think. Especially as one of the chief attractions of the E-mount is that its short flange-focal distance makes just about every lens adaptable to it.

Not just that. It's also the lack of many specialised lenses.

Now, on the inertia resulting from existing lenses investment. Canon was light years ahead of Nikon for many years with faster AF, more widespread stabilisation, FF digital bodies... that only got them to win 5-6 points of marketshare. Nikon has been significantly ahead in image quality for many years now... that has perhaps enabled them to gain 2-3 points back in market share over Canon?

I wish the best to Sony, but the 25+ marketshare points they trail behind Canon and Nikon won't be easy to overcome.

The question really is what happens in China and India. I go there quite a bit and what I see is people with large DSLRs because status is more important than compactness.

We have a very biased view here at LL because the average age is high and that makes a few hundreds of gram extremely appealing (it's the same reason why mirrorless is so successful in Japan btw), but the general market is made of young guys for whom weight is mostly irrelevant. The growth there will probably be 5 times more significant for camera manufacturers than the adjustments in Europe and the US. That positions Samsung as a competitor a lot more dangerous than Sony because their brand is pretty strong there, especially in India.

I agree that the ability to mount any lens on the a7x - albeit with limited AF till proven otherwise - is appealing, but that's mostly about converting the small fraction of Canon shooters willing to spend thousands of US$ to save a few grams, get a modern sensor while continuing to use their lenses. BTW, that probably won't help Sony get very profitable since the margin they make on bodies are probably fairly slim compared to lenses.

IMHO

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 09:08:20 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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atlnq9

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Re: When will Sony enter medium format market?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2015, 11:27:27 pm »

I don't think anybody has to worry too much that they will take over the medium format market.  If they try they will surely flop with a battery life of 200shots, compressed files, buttons in the wrong spots, and trying to make it a video camera.  They have yet to hire a photographer to tell them the basics of what should be in a camera and ergonomics.  They seem to have the ability do great sensor and some other technology and thinking outside the box but often miss the big picture that it has to fall into your hand and just work.  Anyways that is what I have taken from them; just hope they continue to expand the CMOS sensor line for people that can design a system to use...
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