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Author Topic: Let's talk about money: Upgrade prices, value depreciation, promotions for P1  (Read 108740 times)

voidshatter

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And I couldn't care less what numbers show up next to my images. I post them for SEO, next to my real name.
Of course you don't care. Not many care either. You are quite right that you take pictures for self-satisfaction  ;D

I'm just curious to see an example of a side by side comparison why a Credo 40 (CCD) could bring you more satisfaction than a Nikon D800 (Sony CMOS). I have posted many comparisons (with public links of RAW files for download). Can you elaborate any improvement in your non-studio pictures? What's the advantages? What I see is mostly disadvantages when compared against a Nikon D810/D800E (without anti-aliasing filter).
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voidshatter

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Been there, done that, got the T shirt.
So you've reached your conclusion that it is quite sufficient and satisfying to shoot with an iPhone. I see no potential of your CCD backs gaining more resales values over time. Time to sell them all?  ::)
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synn

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I am at the pub and this is good distraction.
There is nothing more entertaining than watching a measurebator trying to convince the world that his way is the only way.
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ErikKaffehr

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Hi,

I am mostly a landscape shooter, using both CMOS (Sony Alpha) and CCD (Phase One P45+). I am always shooting base ISO on the P45+ and always use a tripod. With the Alphas it is mostly the same, base ISO and tripod.

What is obvious to me is that the P45+ gives more resolution, often leading to aliases, but I don't see a lot of difference otherwise. Making A2 prints, I see little difference. That is cannot say which is which, unless looking at well known detail. Colour moiré is often a clue.

Another thing I have noticed is that my images with the P45+ seldom make it to the wall. That said, I like shooting with the P45+ and I do have quite a few nice images, it is just that wall space is limited.

What I often have seen is that a good MF image is often compared with a sloppy made Canon shot. I personally have never used a Canon SLR nor a Nikon digital camera, but my best friend shoots Canon and I am quite happy about his images. I would also say that most of the great images I have seen where shot with either Canon or Nikon. Clearly, this may to have a lot to do with preferences, and of course with the marketshare of foretold cameras.

Overall, I find we have to much obsession with equipment. Images care little about the tools used to make them. A good image is a good image, whatever tool has been used.

Personally, I am pretty sure I will switch to Sony FE (A7rII) in August, mostly because it will give me access to some nice lenses, like the Canon 24/3.5 TS and the Zeiss Batis 1.8/85. That camera can also use my existing lenses. I guess I will hang on to my Hasselblad gear, too, as I like to shoot with it and I don't think it is easy to sell it for a decent price.

Honestly, I would consider switching to a CMOS based MFD as I could use that with my Hasselblad Flexbody, but that wouldn't give me the wide angle I need. An Alpa FPS or a Hartblei HCam may take me there, but at a much greater expense than the Sony, a Metabones adapter and a 24/3.5 TS from Canon.

This was shoot with a P45+:


This was Sony Alpha:


This was P45+:


And this was Sony SLT 99:


Best regards
Erik


I had CCD (Phase, Leica) and Cmos (Canon, Nikon), and some of the CMOS had strong texture loss, while the CCD tended to be very good with skin. As an ex-ICC member I do understand what a CFA is, please spare me the lecture.

Whether this means that ALL Cmos are inferior in some way is improbable, but some people may ascribe creative virtues to their backs and we should not mock them: it makes them angry, possibly depriving their children or lovers of  an evening's affection, and also they might for all we know be more sensitive to image auras than the rest of us, ie. they might be right.

Given a choice, I would still prefer to use a random Phase or Hassy with CCD for portraits, and would certainly reach for a Cmos product whenever high ISO is desired. I don't think I would differentiate between the two for landscape.

Edmund
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 04:06:37 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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Chris Livsey

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I had plans to go down the pub but this is far more entertaining.
Yep, finished the popcorn, still watching.
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jco611

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and thread ruined by the ccd / cmos talk....
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eronald

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Yep, finished the popcorn, still watching.


Fingers so greasy you cannot participate?

Edmund
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gerald.d

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Well that escalated quickly.
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sgilbert

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"Well that escalated quickly."

About what's expected. 
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Ken R

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"Well that escalated quickly."

About what's expected. 

Yep, Same folks hammering in the same arguments to the same people.

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Chris Livsey

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Fingers so greasy you cannot participate?
Edmund

Pointless, well actually no there are two points: CCD pleases some shooters mainly for reasons that are subjective which therefore, by definition, are largely unprovable to a sceptic, CMOS pleases the other group mainly for technical reasons that can be proved but also because those attributes also suit the style or look they wish to produce that pleases them. They are irreconcilable differences.
I suspect if they had the WWW the pictorialism movement and the modernism movement the arguments wouldd be similar. I can misquote A Fassbender: "There is no solution in trying to eradicate CCD sensors for one would then have to destroy idealism, sentiment and all sense of art and beauty. There will always be CCD sensors." The latter may in time however not be true.

CCD sensors replaces pictorialism, but then you knew that.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 02:56:48 am by Chris Livsey »
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synn

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In between all this, my original point as always, got lost.

I have no problem with CMOS sensors or people who shoot with them. I use one when the situation calls for it. However, I derive a lot more pleasure working with my CCD camera, which is a result of a lot of quantifiable and iquantifiable factors that I am in no compulsion to justify to anyone but myself.

I do have a problem with halfwit nincompoops that jump up and down insisting that their perspective is the only valid one and everyone else are dumbasses for sticking to their convictions.

Welcome to my ignore list, Mr. Yunli Song from Oxford. You've earned it.
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barihunk

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In between all this, my original point as always, got lost.

Any point you try to make, while at the same time spouting off personal attacks and doxing your intended target, SCREAMS of hypocrisy.

You are no better than the average schoolyard bully.  #stopbullying

Shame on you.

Shame.
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synn

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Since you used a hashtag, I'll curl up in a corner and feel all the shame in the world.
Thanks for enlightening me.
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eronald

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CCD sensors replaces pictorialism, but then you knew that.



Well, now I do :)
Interesting comment.

Edmund
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eronald

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Since you used a hashtag, I'll curl up in a corner and feel all the shame in the world.
Thanks for enlightening me.

Synn, maybe the guy really does have delicate sensibilities, and you did get carried away a bit, and could apologise - we'll all think of you as more of a gentleman if you do.

Edmund
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synn

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Synn, maybe the guy really does have delicate sensibilities, and you did get carried away a bit, and could apologise - we'll all think of you as more of a gentleman if you do.

Edmund

Good point, I do apologize to barihunk if his sensibilities were offended.
 I couldn't care less if voidshatter cried to sleep reading my posts though, as his agenda is quite clear to me and there's nothing productive there.
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ErikKaffehr

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Hi,

Just to say, Voidshatter has actually shared a lot of good stuff, like raw images from different cameras including the IQ-250. That is more service than most posters on these forums have done. He also is a person who actually can listen and even admit mistakes.

Obviously, "Void" doesn't share your opinion on things, he has made his experiments and drawn his conclusions. No reason to be uncivilised about…

I think the original subject of this thread was "Let's talk about money: Upgrade prices, value depreciation, promotions for P1". On that I would say that there are some alternatives to Phase One, depending on needs. Phase One offers probably the nicest set of options but at a very high cost. For some customers Phase One pricing goes with the territory, some find it less customer friendly.

As an example, if you have a value protection plan you may assume that you can switch from say an IQ-260 to an IQ-250 at a nominal cost, if that back suits your needs. But my understanding is that this is not the case as switching from IQ-260 to IQ-250 is seen as a cross-grade and not an upgrade. Things like that should be more clear.

Best regards
Erik

Good point, I do apologize to barihunk if his sensibilities were offended.
 I couldn't care less if voidshatter cried to sleep reading my posts though, as his agenda is quite clear to me and there's nothing productive there.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 05:47:48 am by ErikKaffehr »
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synn

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 He also is a person who actually can listen and even admit mistakes.



Not something I have seen.

"CCD is useless for anything other than in studio".

This is the original statement he made that I have a problem with and I will continue to have a problem with.
Sweeping statements that don't hold true for everyone are asinine and those who make them should have the courtesy to present them as personal opinions than facts. Not to mention the continuous attempts at mockery at anyone who dares to think otherwise.

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gerald.d

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"CCD is useless for anything other than in studio".



Can we please move on now?
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