Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: vartkes on April 14, 2022, 12:21:35 pm
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I called NEC SHARP Display Solutions in USA, and found out that NEC has discontinued the PA-series of monitors. These monitors have been at the core of our colour managed printing practice well over a decade. Further NEC-USA has no information from HQ in Japan for what if any plans exist to replace the the PA series. The next "best" thing in the NEC pro monitor line is the EA series which has 76% Adobe RGB gamut coverage. Hardly a replacement for the 98% coverage by PA series.
SO the question is what monitor are those who want more than 76% coverage will use? BenQ, Eizo? What else is available out there at the quality of these brands? Would Jeff Schewe or other printing gurus have any opinions?
PS- please spare the comments about why > 76% of gamut coverage is NOT needed. That topic has been put to bed long time ago.
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In a word: Eizo.
Based on "word of mouth" around the web, I'd avoid BenQ.
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Please limit the question to one forum. TIA.
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Please limit the question to one forum. TIA.
+1... This identical topic has already been duplicated within at least three different board categories: Colour Management; Printers, Papers and Inks; and Computers & Peripherals, where the topic fits best ["Discussion of Computers, Displays, Media, Backup"]. Please close the duplicate topic threads you've started to consolidate and facilitate discussion of this topic.
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I replaced a PA271(Spectraview) with an Eizo CS series monitor and have found it excellent.
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So, any ideas why NEC is doing this?
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So, any ideas why NEC is doing this?
Panasonic ceased production of IPS panels used in NEC PA and EIZO CG series.
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So, any ideas why NEC is doing this?
Make something up. (https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/flicker-eyestrain-or-headache-when-using-a-monitor-with-led-backlighting.484239/#post-5124157) :'(
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Panasonic ceased production of IPS panels used in NEC PA and EIZO CG series.
To me this looks like a rather serious issue. What if this means the end of NEC PA and Eizo CG monitors? Are there any other reasonably-affordable, high-quality wide-gamut monitors available? Any rumors about if and when NEC and Eizo may switch to other panel suppliers?
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Make something up. (https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/flicker-eyestrain-or-headache-when-using-a-monitor-with-led-backlighting.484239/#post-5124157) :'(
Very, very helpful!
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Very, very helpful!
To your audience, indeed. You have this odd repetitive habit of asking questions of others, both here and on PhotoNet (two sites dedicated to photography, an activity of which there is zero proof you've tried) when your posting history and agenda show/prove, you have no desire or ability to accept any answer. No need to ask questions of us. The factual answers provided will be ignored at best, or as is more often the case, you will disagree with the answers without any kind of evidence: sharing with us your strong opinion about a subject you’ve demonstrated you know virtually nothing about.
A partial paper trail for your readers new to your posting agenda:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136134.msg1185926#msg1185926
To me this looks like a rather serious issue.
Another habit, assuming, jumping to conclusions, panicking. :'(
Any rumors about if and when NEC and Eizo may switch to other panel suppliers?
Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don't know.
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To your audience, indeed. You have this odd repetitive habit of asking questions of others, both here and on PhotoNet (two sites dedicated to photography, an activity of which there is zero proof you've tried) when your posting history and agenda show/prove, you have no desire or ability to accept any answer. No need to ask questions of us. The factual answers provided will be ignored at best, or as is more often the case, you will disagree with the answers without any kind of evidence: sharing with us your strong opinion about a subject you’ve demonstrated you know virtually nothing about.
A partial paper trail for your readers new to your posting agenda:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136134.msg1185926#msg1185926Another habit, assuming, jumping to conclusions, panicking. :'(Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don't know.
Yet another example of your boring, childish behavior: contributing nothing to the topic at hand, but spouting the usual, pitiful rants.
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Yet another example of your boring, childish behavior: contributing nothing to the topic at hand, but spouting the usual, pitiful rants.
At least I'm an actual photographer posting on a site dedicated to photography.
What's your excuse? :P
Very, very helpful!
You are quite welcome. ;)
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At least I'm an actual photographer posting on a site dedicated to photography.
What's your excuse? :PYou are quite welcome. ;)
No need to prove myself, certainly not to you.
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No need to prove myself, certainly not to you.
An excuse as predicted.
Please get in the last silly word, takes a dump on the carpet here again (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1222178#msg1222178) so we photographers can back on topic, one you have no experience with.
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To me this looks like a rather serious issue.
It isn't. To me, this looks like you worry too much.
What if this means the end of NEC PA and Eizo CG monitors?
It doesn't. Eizo recently announced two new 27-inch CG models (https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/sp_cg2700xs/) which will soon begin shipping as they continue to update their ColorEdge (https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/) line of displays and software (https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/cn7/index.html) with new models and versions.
Are there any other reasonably-affordable, high-quality wide-gamut monitors available?
Yes.
Any rumors about if and when NEC and Eizo may switch to other panel suppliers?
If you're looking for rumors, you've come to the right place. Welcome to the internet.
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This isn't a supply or supplier issue for Sharp/NEC Display Solutions. This is a business decision. More specifically, it's a product portfolio and strategic direction decision.
Sharp purchased controlling interest (66%) of NEC Display Solutions in November, 2020. It's clear, from a look at their current product offerings, that a major focus of Sharp Electronics (https://business.sharpusa.com/Commercial-Displays) and Sharp/NEC Display Solutions (https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us) is in large displays and projectors for commercial applications like digital signage, advertising, conference/collaboration, etc. A growing emphasis on large commercial displays is a direction in which the two companies have both been moving for some time.
Whether Sharp/NEC Display Solutions will return to displays for applications like medical diagnostics or creative content producers, which require a high degree of reproduction accuracy, is anyone's guess. NEC left the medical diagnostic display market in November, 2016. It appears that they are withdrawing from another market for high color accuracy displays as their market emphasis has shifted toward large commercial solutions.
NEC is a member of the Sumitomo Group (https://www.sumitomo.gr.jp/english/org/company/) and a roughly $23 billion annual revenue corporation engaged in a variety of businesses. The LCD display business, as a whole, has been declining in revenue at NEC for over a decade and they were happy to find a partner to buy the majority of that business. Sharp, since their 2016 acquisition, is a subsidiary of the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, Hon Hai Technology Group based in Taiwan, more generally known to the world as Foxconn. Foxconn generates about $200 billion in revenue and employs well over 1.2 million people. Sharp/NEC Display Solutions is one gear in a very big machine.
The $430 million in sales that Sharp/NEC Display Solutions generates is not insignificant, but the professional graphics display segment is only one slice of that pie. The future, as someone may remind us, is hard to predict. Sharp/NEC may have retreated from the relatively small color critical graphics segment of the display market, buy there are still a number of other options available including several from Eizo.
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To me this looks like a rather serious issue. What if this means the end of NEC PA and Eizo CG monitors? Are there any other reasonably-affordable, high-quality wide-gamut monitors available? Any rumors about if and when NEC and Eizo may switch to other panel suppliers?
EIZO swiched to custom AOC panels, NEC temporarly gave it up.
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SO the question is what monitor are those who want more than 76% coverage will use? BenQ, Eizo?
NEC PA, EIZO CG, and HP DreamColor used the same Panasonic IPS W-LED PFS panels, which were as good as it gets - suprisingly uniform, and with excellent OCF that reduces off-angle IPS black glow. New EIZO CG will use custom AOC panels with OCF, time will tell if they will be as good as Panasonic.
Newest Benq are not that bad like former models, but they have no OCF so the off-angle black is not as good, and calibration software has some flaws (it uses wrong spectral correction for i1Display Pro, which can be fixed by a small hack).
New Apple Studio Display is similar quality (most probably 3DLUT factory calibrated like PA and CG series), it uses custom 5k LG panel with OCF. The advantage of this display is higher resolution and glossy surface with excellent anti-reflex coating which both give better sharpness, purity and is less prone to flare from ambient lightning and than standard satin diffuser in CG/PA etc.
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... NEC temporarly gave it up.
Thank you Czornyj for sharing your insights with us. This may very well mean the end of NEC IPS monitors.
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EIZO swiched to custom AOC panels, NEC temporarly gave it up.
Misunderstood:
This may very well mean the end of NEC IPS monitors.
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Giving up portions of its display business is what NEC has been doing for several years. In 2004, they sold their plasma display business (https://www.eetimes.com/nec-sells-plasma-displays-business-to-pioneer/) to Pioneer. A few weeks later, NEC gave up their OLED manufacturing partnership (https://www.eetimes.com/nec-drops-its-oled-business/), with Samsung buying out NEC's 49% stake and all of their OLED patents. "To grow in the OLED business, it is essential to shift to active matrix OLEDs, which will require a large investment, said an NEC spokesman. NEC decided to focus on its IT and semiconductor solution businesses. Flat panels no longer a core business for the company."
In 2009, NEC cut 20,000 jobs (https://web.archive.org/web/20120130010214/http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/01/28/japans-electronics-industry-forced-eliminate-tens-thousands-jobs.html), "mainly in sluggish semiconductor and liquid crystal display-related businesses." In 2011, 70% of their LCD panel manufacturing business, NEC LCD Technologies, was sold to Tianma (http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/1102/2502.html). They acquired the remainder of NEC's interest in 2016 and renamed the business Tianma Japan, Ltd. (https://www.tianma.co.jp/en/products/index.html)
Additionally in 2016, NEC gave up their medical diagnostic monitor business (https://www.itnonline.com/content/nec-display-solutions-discontinue-medical-diagnostic-monitor-business). "NEC will now focus its development efforts and resources in key business areas, including clinical review, administration and back office, information way-finding, digital signage, education and conferencing."
In 2020, NEC sold majority interest (https://www.keypointintelligence.com/news/editors-desk/2020/november/with-nec-deal-complete-sharp-corp-continues-its-expansion/) (66%) and control of NEC Display Solutions to Sharp Corporation (a subsidiary of Foxconn), retaining a one-third minority stake in the business. Short of exiting the display business completely, there's not much of it left for NEC to sell or give up—temporary or otherwise. The direction (https://www.sharp-nec-displays.com/global/about/policy.html?) and market focus (https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/success-stories) decisions are now in the hands of Foxconn/Sharp and not NEC.
I'm not predicting the future. I'm also not ignoring an obvious trend.
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I'm not predicting the future. I'm also not ignoring an obvious trend.
"This may very well mean the end of"...:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvp3WE1ve4A
:D
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EIZO swiched to custom AOC panels
New EIZO CG will use custom AOC panels
When did AOC become a manufacturer of LCD panels? They manufacture and sell monitors/displays, but I'm not aware of them manufacturing LCD panels.
Perhaps the manufacturer your inside source meant to convey to you was AU Optronics (AUO). That's possible. Eizo has sourced LCD panels from numerous different manufacturers over the years and combined them with their own proprietary circuitry, firmware, and software to suit their product requirements.
Frankly, I've never cared who made any of the component parts in a device. I'm only concerned with how all of the components perform when combined and I use the device.
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According to this, AUO (AU Optronics) manufacturers only TFT panels which AFAIK, not the best for high end displays(?):
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160727005068/en/Technavio-Announces-Top-Five-Vendors-in-the-Global-Large-Area-LCD-Display-Market-from-2016-to-2020
Edit: newer, apparently wide gamut (99% Adobe RGB) "IPS-type panels" panels:
https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/au-optronics-latest-panel-development-plans-oct-2020
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Perhaps you're thinking of TN (Twisted Nematic) LCD panels. TFT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film-transistor_liquid-crystal_display) (Thin Film Transistor) is the basic technology underlying virtually any LCD panel type (IPS / TN / PVA etc.).
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Perhaps you're thinking of TN (Twisted Nematic) LCD panels. TFT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film-transistor_liquid-crystal_display) (Thin Film Transistor) is the basic technology underlying virtually any LCD panel type (IPS / TN / PVA etc.).
That older (so ignore) article stated "TFT-LCD panels" but upon more searching, indeed, they do produce wide gamut IPS-type panels, so certainly a possibility for NEC and others.
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You're more than likely looking at a TFT LCD panel right now. Thin Film Transistors are what make LCD monitors and TVs possible.
If you're looking at an LCD that isn't using TFT, then it's probably a clock, speedometer, thermostat, calculator or some other alphanumeric LCD device.
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SO the question is what monitor are those who want more than 76% coverage will use? BenQ, Eizo? What else is available out there at the quality of these brands?
Eizo offers a variety of ColorEdge models from which to choose. The Eizo U.S. website (https://www.eizo.com/products/coloredge/) shows available or recently shipping models, but currently doesn't show the two new 27" models. The Eizo Global website (https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/index.html) does show new models. Eizo monitors have been relied on for years in high volume print production environments and for professional video/broadcast/cinema production due to their accuracy, uniformity, and reliability. Eizo ColorNavigator 7 (https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/cn7/) software for calibration is free to download and offers a wide variety of options with an extensive set of user controls.
There are thorough reviews available of several current models from the German language display news and review site PRAD. Google does a good job of translating those reviews into English. A sample of some reviews with English translation are linked below. Two of the reviews (CG319X / CG279X) also include a review of ColorNavigator 7 which was a new version at the time of their review in 2019. Since those reviews, ColorNavigator has been updated multiple times, but the information is still useful as an overview. There are PRAD reviews of other Eizo models as well, which you can find with Google.
PRAD test of Eizo CG319X + ColorNavigator 7 (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-eizo-cg319x-top-monitor-fuer-dci-4k-content/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc) PRAD test of Eizo CG279X + ColorNavigator 7 (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-eizo-cg279x-bildqualitaet-in-perfektion/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc) PRAD test of Eizo CS2740 (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-eizo-cs2740-4k-monitor-fuer-kreative-ueberzeugt/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc) PRAD test of Eizo CS2731 (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-eizo-cs2731-monitor-fuer-anspruchsvolle-kreative/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
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When did AOC become a manufacturer of LCD panels? They manufacture and sell monitors/displays, but I'm not aware of them manufacturing LCD panels.
Perhaps the manufacturer your inside source meant to convey to you was AU Optronics (AUO). That's possible. Eizo has sourced LCD panels from numerous different manufacturers over the years and combined them with their own proprietary circuitry, firmware, and software to suit their product requirements.
Frankly, I've never cared who made any of the component parts in a device. I'm only concerned with how all of the components perform when combined and I use the device.
Sorry for mistake, I meant AUO
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That older (so ignore) article stated "TFT-LCD panels" but upon more searching, indeed, they do produce wide gamut IPS-type panels, so certainly a possibility for NEC and others.
AUO panels are alredy commonly used in Benq etc. Sharp NEC may also use Sharp panels, Sharp IGZO panel was used in PA322UHD that I had before I swiched to PA311D, and it was decent as well.
Here's an example of new professional 32" 8K FALD 1000cd/m² HDR display with IGZO panel:
https://www.sharp.eu/sharp-8k-displays/8m-b32c1
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Chatted with Sharp/NEC USA support. They told me that the PA series is in the process of being discontinued and that they (in Support) are currently not aware of plans to replace them. We may have to kiss these NEC monitors goodbye.
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My PA242W with Spectraview II might be going up in resale price.
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Today:
They told me that the PA series is in the process of being discontinued and that they (in Support) are currently not aware of plans to replace them
News flash for you?
I called NEC SHARP Display Solutions in USA, and found out that NEC has discontinued the PA-series of monitors.
We may have to kiss these NEC monitors goodbye.
"These" (the ones discontinued and out of stock everywhere) yes, NEC displays, maybe not. Oh wait, don't panic too much, in stock:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1519332-REG/nec_pa311d_bk_31_color_critical_desktop.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmPSSBhCNARIsAH3cYgYE08DdvFrMl4Jnw3-TJZ-QPfwVKT_xLdWNmBGb3uh00lPYOhhz2MEaAn1DEALw_wcB
But then you'll likely find they flicker for you. ;D
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My PA242W with Spectraview II might be going up in resale price.
Or maybe not.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1368967-REG/nec_multisync_pa243w_sv_24_wide.html
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Today:News flash for you? "These" (the ones discontinued and out of stock everywhere) yes, NEC displays, maybe not. Oh wait, don't panic too much, in stock:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1519332-REG/nec_pa311d_bk_31_color_critical_desktop.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmPSSBhCNARIsAH3cYgYE08DdvFrMl4Jnw3-TJZ-QPfwVKT_xLdWNmBGb3uh00lPYOhhz2MEaAn1DEALw_wcB
But then you'll likely find they flicker for you. ;D
Maybe, just maybe, you should take your head out of the sand for a moment and consider the possibility that NEC may quit this market segment and plan accordingly.
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Maybe, just maybe, you should take your head out of the sand for a moment and consider the possibility that NEC may quit this market segment and plan accordingly.
"Always remember, rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots." - Ziad K. Abdelnour
Maybe, just maybe, you should take your head out of the sand for a moment and consider the possibility that you can today, get NEC PA display(s), the links to do so were provided.
"Predictions are hard, especially about the future."- Yogi Berra
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"Always remember, rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots." - Ziad K. Abdelnour
Maybe, just maybe, you should take your head out of the sand for a moment and consider the possibility that you can today, get a PA display(s), the links to do so were provided.
"Predictions are hard, especially about the future."- Yogi Berra
NEC USA lists just 2 remaining PA monitors while they are in the process of discontinuing the product line. And you call that a rumor? Get real.
Even the PA243W at B&H is not in stock and they quote 3-5 weeks for special orders. Again, get real.
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NEC USA lists just 2 remaining PA monitors while they are in the process of discontinuing the product line. And you call that a rumor?
You're as usual, lost.
Never disputed, long before you got here and found out today, what the rest of us knew, before you got here:
I called NEC SHARP Display Solutions in USA, and found out that NEC has discontinued the PA-series of monitors.
Now the rumors:
To me this looks like a rather serious issue. What if this means the end of NEC PA and Eizo CG monitors?
And
This may very well mean the end of NEC IPS monitors.
And
We may have to kiss these NEC monitors goodbye.
I don’t know if you are purposely trying not to understand this, or if you are really struggling with it. Often, you are able to accomplish both! ;)
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Even the PA243W at B&H is not in stock and they quote 3-5 weeks for special orders. Again, get real.
"Deceiving a fool is an exploit worthy of an intelligent man".-Giacomo Girolamo Casanova
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You're as usual, lost.
Never disputed, long before you got here and found out today, what the rest of us knew, before you got here:Now the rumors:AndAndI don’t know if you are purposely trying not to understand this, or if you are really struggling with it. Often, you are able to accomplish both! ;)
So, applying logic (you should try it sometime!) to what you are ranting on about, it appears that you are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors. I truly wish you would be right, but that may be wishful thinking.
And I do feel for your anxiety and going into denial mode when your favorite products, be it NEC monitors, Apply computers, Adobe programs, etc. may or may not continue to be available.
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So, applying logic ....
Putting the cart before the horse and assuming again.
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance."-Laurence J. Peter
it appears that you are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors.
"Ignorance is brought about by assumption."-T. D. Jakes
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"Deceiving a fool is an exploit worthy of an intelligent man".-Giacomo Girolamo Casanova
Yes, wisecrack, they just updated their website to show the PA243W with SpectraView to be in stock. Without SpectraView it's 3-5 weeks with special order.
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Yes, wisecrack, they just updated their website to show the PA243W with SpectraView to be in stock. Without SpectraView it's 3-5 weeks with special order.
A comment from someone I'd expect has so little experience with SpectraView. The software you download.
Meanwhile, yes, one can have a PA shipped as soon as they place an order and pay, and this is just more of your typical BS assumptions you pulled out of your rear end:
Even the PA243W at B&H is not in stock and they quote 3-5 weeks for special orders
They 'just' updated their site, hilarious.
You are of course entitled to your uninformed opinions on this subject. As I am entitled to my fact-based data points.
Please get in the last silly word, take a dump on the carpet here again (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1222178#msg1222178) so we photographers can back on topic, one you have no experience with.
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you can today, get NEC PA display(s)
Yes... and they will all be TFT displays! Ever feel like there are too many people using too many acronyms these days?
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Ever feel like there are too many people using too many acronyms these days?
YCSTA ;D
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Let's forget about all your B$. Just comment on this simple statement: "It appears that you (Andrew Rodney) are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors."
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YCSTA ;D
OCF (https://www.acronymfinder.com/Obsessive_Compulsive-Foundation-(OCF).html) or OCF (https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-14346-0_209)? Sometimes... you just have to guess!
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...consider the possibility that NEC may quit this market segment...
Enough! Everyone here has already considered that possibility! It's pretty clearly implied in this topic's title for crying out loud! Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
Products get discontinued. We find other products to use in their place when we need to replace them. Get it?
Now... can we talk about the "substitute" part of this topic for a change? That's in the topic title as well.
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"It appears that you (Andrew Rodney) are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors."
"I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity in your statement". - Robert Jordan, The Gathering Storm
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For the purpose of comparison to previously posted links to PRAD.de test reports of Eizo monitors, BenQ top models in this category like the SW312C (https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/photographer/sw321c.html) and SW271C (https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/photographer/sw271c.html) have also been tested and reviewed by PRAD. Google translation to English links for PRAD tests are below...
PRAD Test of the BenQ SW312C (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-benq-sw321c-grafik-monitor-mit-16-bit-3d-lut/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
PRAD Test of BenQ SW271C (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-benq-sw271c-grafikmonitor-fuer-profis-ueberzeugt/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
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SO the question is what monitor are those who want more than 76% coverage will use? BenQ, Eizo? What else is available out there at the quality of these brands?
There are certainly other monitors that might be considered contenders based on their capacity for hardware calibration, native color gamut, uniformity compensation, and whatever other potential criteria individuals deem to be necessary for consideration. Dell (https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-premiercolor-monitor-up2720q/apd/210-avbp/monitors-monitor-accessories), LG (https://www.lg.com/global/business/monitors/lg-32bp95e), and ASUS ProArt (https://www.asus.com/ProArt/Displays-Home/) have wide gamut monitor offerings which can be calibrated. Perhaps an Apple display would be a contender for some user's needs.
Some of the possible contenders are HDR (High Dynamic Range) rather than SDR (Standard Dynamic Range) monitors. For anyone interested in an HDR monitor, that starts an entirely new discussion of the multiple HDR standards and technologies which continue to emerge and evolve at a relatively rapid pace.
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Eizo is unique in not being a subsidiary of some larger corporate entity involved in multiple unrelated product lines. They've maintained a narrow range of product focus in a rather chaotic industry. Although their focus on the type of products they offer is narrow, the range of products within the ColorEdge line is broad. There are 8 different models which range in price from $859 for the CS2420 (https://www.eizo.com/products/coloredge/cs2420/) to $5,739 for the CG319X (https://www.eizo.com/products/coloredge/cg319x/). The CG3146 HDR reference monitor is in a rather special category of application and price.
They have expanded and remained profitable by focusing on monitors for very specific applications where accuracy and reliability are critical. Their success has come from specializing in markets with very specific needs and then investing in R&D and acquisitions to become an effective professional tool to meet those needs. They have also leveraged their R&D across product lines. Eizo's largest share of revenue comes from medical diagnostic and operating room monitors. Most of what we would associate as features of the ColorEdge line originated in their medical monitors.
https://www.eizoglobal.com/company/history (https://www.eizoglobal.com/company/information/history/index.html)
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Since the needs and budget are unique for each individual, it would be worthwhile to include in the discussion the less expensive options from BenQ. Some might not take seriously a $400 monitor for editing their images. That would be a mistake in my opinion.
If you know someone with a modest budget wanting a monitor with good overall performance, I would suggest looking at the BenQ SW240 (https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/photographer/sw240.html). A surprisingly good performer for $399.
The BenQ SW270C (https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/photographer/sw270c.html) is a 2K 27" monitor for $800. Like the smaller model above, it offers hardware calibration, wide color gamut, and uniformity correction.
Are the BenQ models equivalent to an NEC monitor designed for photo editing? No. None of the various models from NEC, Eizo, BenQ, etc., are equivalent to another despite whatever assertions may be made. They each bring with them their own set of features, design, engineering, and manufacturing process which result in differences in price, performance, and capabilities. That said, I wouldn't dismiss any reasonable option from consideration without careful examination of each product compared to individual needs and priorities.
Below are PRAD test links with Google translation to English for the monitors listed above...
PRAD Test of BenQ SW240 (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-benq-sw240-guenstiger-grafik-monitor-ueberzeugt/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc) PRAD Test of BenQ 270C (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-benq-sw270c-grafik-monitor-mit-16-bit-3d-lut/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
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Are the BenQ models equivalent to an NEC monitor designed for photo editing? No. None of the various models from NEC, Eizo, BenQ, etc., are equivalent to another despite whatever assertions may be made. They each bring with them their own set of features, design, engineering, and manufacturing process which result in differences in price, performance, and capabilities. That said, I wouldn't dismiss any reasonable option from consideration without careful examination of each product compared to individual needs and priorities.
NEC PA 27" and 31" were virtually identical to EIZO CG and vice versa - same panels, same capabilities, same performance.
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That's too bad they decided to discontinue this series. My last monitor, a Spectraview 2960Wuxi was fantastic with I believe over 40K hours. I decided to grab a PA311D before it was too late and I expect nothing short of the same kind of longevity.
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NEC PA 27" and 31" were virtually identical to EIZO CG and vice versa - same panels, same capabilities, same performance.
I've seen assertions like this before and they don't become any less false thru repetition. A monitor is much more than simply a panel or a backlight or any other component part. They are are the sum of all of their parts, programming, and processes. Different manufacturers produce different products even when a component might be the same. That should be obvious.
Monitors are much more complex than some may think. The incoming digital video signal undergoes multiple levels of calculated transformations before becoming a carefully controlled analog electrical signal eventually applied as a precise voltage to a tiny sub-pixel inside an analog screen.
Same panel and so... what? Everything else is "virtually identical"? Of course not. As one of many examples of different choices made in engineering and design; in their most recent CG and PA series monitors, NEC and Eizo used different approaches to something as basic as supplying power to the panel to control brightness. Eizo uses DC (Direct Current) dimming (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-eizo-cg319x-top-monitor-fuer-dci-4k-content/7/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc#Backlight) to regulate brightness while NEC chose to use PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) (https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-nec-pa311d-grafik-monitor-mit-dci-4k-aufloesung/6/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc#Backlight). No... I'm not going to get pulled into a discussion about the advantages or disadvantages of either method and the difference it makes in the cost of manufacturing. It's just an example of how one component, like a display panel in this instance, may be treated differently and connected to entirely different surrounding components by two different manufacturers.
It illustrates why no one should accept anything they read as true without applying some of their reasoning skills and doing some further investigation of claims. What you choose to accept as fact, perceive as "virtually identical", or your understanding of differences will always be entirely up to you.
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Please tell us the hack. I have a new benq monitor
Newest Benq are not that bad like former models, but they have no OCF so the off-angle black is not as good, and calibration software has some flaws (it uses wrong spectral correction for i1Display Pro, which can be fixed by a small hack).
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Please tell us the hack. I have a new benq monitor
The "hack" involves replacing a system file, used in connection with X-Rite's i1Display Pro colorimeter, known as an EDR (Emissive Display Reference). The purpose of the file is to correct for the spectral characteristics of the display combined with the colorimeter being used in order to improve the calibration accuracy. A concise explanation of colorimeters and the use of a calibration matrix to improve accuracy can be found here (http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf).
X-Rite's SDK (Software Development Kit); for developers utilizing the i1Display Pro connected to their software, like BenQ, NEC, Eizo, etc., includes EDR files for various generic display types. A calibration matrix is calculated to improve the accuracy of the measurements. Accuracy is not an absolute like a switch that is either on or off, but a matter of degrees and this is a method commonly used to improve display calibration accuracy.
The "hack" or EDR "forging" procedure is to get a file and substitute it for a generic X-Rite file by renaming it using X-Rite's nomenclature and placing it in the system folder where EDR files are stored. The goal is to improve on the X-Rite generic files with a better (more accurate) generic file measured from a display technology that is closer to the spectral characteristics of your display. Replacing EDR files is a much discussed topic at the DisplayCal software forum by users interested in the pursuit of ever tighter tolerances wanting to get under the hood and make modifications.
If this is something that you wish to pursue, it would be necessary to know which display model you have to determine the general LCD panel type. Once that's known, you may be able to make some improvement in your current calibrations using the method described above. First, you may want to calibrate your new monitor and look at the results to determine if it's within your tolerance requirements for accuracy.
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Eizo produces some worthwhile reading material and videos, how it's organized and what you will find varies somewhat depending on the regional website. Eizo APAC is an independent distributor of Eizo products in the Asia-Pacific market and produce some of their own educational and promotional material and videos. They have organized a collection of ColorEdge brochures and guides (https://www.eizo-apac.com/monitors/photography-design-video/coloredge-brochures) in one place for those interested. They also have produced their own technical guides and videos (https://www.eizo-apac.com/support-service/tech-library/tech-guides) for specific applications. Les Walkling, also from Australia, has a concise explanation in a 5-minute video of manual editing of color settings for monitor soft proofing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddl8d2VdS2k)
Eizo's subsidiaries in Europe have organized some information on color management (https://www.eizo.be/en/knowledge/colour-management-calibration/) and other resources that may be helpful to some. The Eizo Global (https://www.eizoglobal.com) website also has a variety of information and resources available.
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My monitors are Benq 27 and 24. Sw270c and sw240
Could you provide me the file or a link to the procedure?
Thank you
The "hack" involves replacing a system file, used in connection with X-Rite's i1Display Pro colorimeter, known as an EDR (Emissive Display Reference). The purpose of the file is to correct for the spectral characteristics of the display combined with the colorimeter being used in order to improve the calibration accuracy. A concise explanation of colorimeters and the use of a calibration matrix to improve accuracy can be found here (http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf).
X-Rite's SDK (Software Development Kit); for developers utilizing the i1Display Pro connected to their software, like BenQ, NEC, Eizo, etc., includes EDR files for various generic display types. A calibration matrix is calculated to improve the accuracy of the measurements. Accuracy is not an absolute like a switch that is either on or off, but a matter of degrees and this is a method commonly used to improve display calibration accuracy.
The "hack" or EDR "forging" procedure is to get a file and substitute it for a generic X-Rite file by renaming it using X-Rite's nomenclature and placing it in the system folder where EDR files are stored. The goal is to improve on the X-Rite generic files with a better (more accurate) generic file measured from a display technology that is closer to the spectral characteristics of your display. Replacing EDR files is a much discussed topic at the DisplayCal software forum by users interested in the pursuit of ever tighter tolerances wanting to get under the hood and make modifications.
If this is something that you wish to pursue, it would be necessary to know which display model you have to determine the general LCD panel type. Once that's known, you may be able to make some improvement in your current calibrations using the method described above. First, you may want to calibrate your new monitor and look at the results to determine if it's within your tolerance requirements for accuracy.
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There's another process (hack if you will) that can be used IF (big if) you own a Spectrophotometer as well as such a Colorimeter, whereby you use the Spectrophotometer first:
How to use an i1Pro to create an offset for an i1Display (or similar), using SpectraView as an example, but it may be doable with other software products:
Background:
The two devices can be used in combination to create a correction offset which will lead to much better results. This involves first calibrating the display with the i1Pro measuring the resulting white point with the i1Display and creating a new target based on that measured white point.
Steps:
1. Connect the i1Pro
2. Select the desired Target in SpectraView and calibrate the display.
3. Confirm that the calibrated white point is acceptable (judge 100% white only).
4. Disconnect the i1Pro and connect the i1Display.
5. Open the SpectraView Preferences dialog.
6. Re-detect the color sensor.
7. Change the "Primary Colors Chromaticity Source" to "Factory Measurement"
8. Click OK. (for other software products, you may need to jot down the CIE xy values rather than what is stated below in step 4)
Next, you will create a new Target with a custom white point that has been adjusted with the offset between the two devices:
1. In SpectraView, click the "Edit Target settings" icon.
2. Click the "Edit..." button in the "White Point" group.
3. Click the "Measure" button and measure the white patch on the screen using the i1Display.
4. The CIE xy values should be filled in automatically.
5. Click OK.
6. Click OK.
7. Enter a new name for the Target file.
8. Make sure the new Target is selected, and calibrate using the ii1Display.
The white point should match what you got with the i1Pro and the greyscale should be much better.
The i1Display Colorimeter is more ideal for calibration of the display** but the Spectrophotometer is going to give you a better offset. Once that's been measured, just stick to using the Colorimeter.
**http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf
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My monitors are Benq 27 and 24. Sw270c and sw240
Could you provide me the file or a link to the procedure?
Thank you
Next you'll need to determine the LCD panel type in each monitor. If you've already calibrated your monitors and are not satisfied with the calibration or are just curious and wish to experiment with this process, I would suggest making use of the forum at DisplayCal.
There are a number of people there that are very interested in this process and willing to aid in the detective work required to find the best match. Frankly, I've never found a need for this with either the NEC or Eizo monitors I've used. But, others needs may be different than my own.
Here's a link to a recent forum topic on a user's test with a BenQ SW240 like yours...
https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/benq-sw240-pme-and-displaycal-results-custom-edr (https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/benq-sw240-pme-and-displaycal-results-custom-edr/)
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There's another process (hack if you will) that can be used IF (big if) you own a Spectrophotometer as well as such a Colorimeter, whereby you use the Spectrophotometer first:
How to use an i1Pro to create an offset for an i1Display (or similar), using SpectraView as an example, but it may be doable with other software products...
Sensor correlation is built into Eizo ColorNavigator 7 (https://www.eizo.com/products/coloredge/cn7/) and basICColor Display 6 Pro (https://www.basiccolor.de/assets/Uploads/basICColor-display-6-Pro-Additional-Features.pdf) as well. As you indicated, this will aid in fine tuning the display calibration accuracy.
It's also useful in a production environment to have correlation to a master reference instrument of all the other measuring devices used to improve color consistency.