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Author Topic: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued  (Read 8445 times)

Frans Waterlander

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2022, 04:40:07 pm »

You're as usual, lost.
Never disputed, long before you got here and found out today, what the rest of us knew, before you got here:Now the rumors:AndAndI don’t know if you are purposely trying not to understand this, or if you are really struggling with it. Often, you are able to accomplish both!  ;)
So, applying logic (you should try it sometime!) to what you are ranting on about, it appears that you are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors. I truly wish you would be right, but that may be wishful thinking.

And I do feel for your anxiety and going into denial mode when your favorite products, be it NEC monitors, Apply computers, Adobe programs, etc. may or may not continue to be available.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 04:46:46 pm by Frans Waterlander »
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digitaldog

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2022, 04:42:07 pm »

So, applying logic ....
Putting the cart before the horse and assuming again.
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance."-Laurence J. Peter
Quote
it appears that you are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors.
"Ignorance is brought about by assumption."-T. D. Jakes
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2022, 04:46:06 pm »

"Deceiving a fool is an exploit worthy of an intelligent man".-Giacomo Girolamo Casanova
Yes, wisecrack, they just updated their website to show the PA243W with SpectraView to be in stock. Without SpectraView it's 3-5 weeks with special order.
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digitaldog

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2022, 04:51:47 pm »

Yes, wisecrack, they just updated their website to show the PA243W with SpectraView to be in stock. Without SpectraView it's 3-5 weeks with special order.
A comment from someone I'd expect has so little experience with SpectraView. The software you download.
Meanwhile, yes, one can have a PA shipped as soon as they place an order and pay, and this is just more of your typical BS assumptions you pulled out of your rear end:
Quote
Even the PA243W at B&H is not in stock and they quote 3-5 weeks for special orders
They 'just' updated their site, hilarious.
You are of course entitled to your uninformed opinions on this subject. As I am entitled to my fact-based data points.
Please get in the last silly word, take a dump on the carpet here again so we photographers can back on topic, one you have no experience with.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 04:55:45 pm by digitaldog »
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2022, 04:58:41 pm »

you can today, get NEC PA display(s)

Yes... and they will all be TFT displays! Ever feel like there are too many people using too many acronyms these days?
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digitaldog

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2022, 05:07:03 pm »

Ever feel like there are too many people using too many acronyms these days?
YCSTA  ;D
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2022, 05:16:17 pm »


Let's forget about all your B$. Just comment on this simple statement: "It appears that you (Andrew Rodney) are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors."
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2022, 05:16:58 pm »

YCSTA  ;D

OCF or OCF? Sometimes... you just have to guess!
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2022, 05:25:48 pm »

...consider the possibility that NEC may quit this market segment...

Enough! Everyone here has already considered that possibility! It's pretty clearly implied in this topic's title for crying out loud! Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued

Products get discontinued. We find other products to use in their place when we need to replace them. Get it?

Now... can we talk about the "substitute" part of this topic for a change? That's in the topic title as well.
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digitaldog

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2022, 05:30:54 pm »

"It appears that you (Andrew Rodney) are fully convinced that NEC will re-introduce these kind of monitors."
"I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity in your statement". - Robert Jordan, The Gathering Storm
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2022, 05:41:56 pm »

For the purpose of comparison to previously posted links to PRAD.de test reports of Eizo monitors, BenQ top models in this category like the SW312C and SW271C have also been tested and reviewed by PRAD. Google translation to English links for PRAD tests are below...

PRAD Test of the BenQ SW312C

PRAD Test of BenQ SW271C
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2022, 08:36:48 pm »

SO the question is what monitor are those who want more than 76% coverage will use? BenQ, Eizo? What else is available out there at the quality of these brands?

There are certainly other monitors that might be considered contenders based on their capacity for hardware calibration, native color gamut, uniformity compensation, and whatever other potential criteria individuals deem to be necessary for consideration. Dell, LG, and ASUS ProArt have wide gamut monitor offerings which can be calibrated. Perhaps an Apple display would be a contender for some user's needs.

Some of the possible contenders are HDR (High Dynamic Range) rather than SDR (Standard Dynamic Range) monitors. For anyone interested in an HDR monitor, that starts an entirely new discussion of the multiple HDR standards and technologies which continue to emerge and evolve at a relatively rapid pace.
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2022, 08:42:23 pm »

Eizo is unique in not being a subsidiary of some larger corporate entity involved in multiple unrelated product lines. They've maintained a narrow range of product focus in a rather chaotic industry. Although their focus on the type of products they offer is narrow, the range of products within the ColorEdge line is broad. There are 8 different models which range in price from $859 for the CS2420 to $5,739 for the CG319X. The CG3146 HDR reference monitor is in a rather special category of application and price.

They have expanded and remained profitable by focusing on monitors for very specific applications where accuracy and reliability are critical. Their success has come from specializing in markets with very specific needs and then investing in R&D and acquisitions to become an effective professional tool to meet those needs. They have also leveraged their R&D across product lines. Eizo's largest share of revenue comes from medical diagnostic and operating room monitors. Most of what we would associate as features of the ColorEdge line originated in their medical monitors.

https://www.eizoglobal.com/company/history
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2022, 05:14:04 pm »

Since the needs and budget are unique for each individual, it would be worthwhile to include in the discussion the less expensive options from BenQ. Some might not take seriously a $400 monitor for editing their images. That would be a mistake in my opinion.

If you know someone with a modest budget wanting a monitor with good overall performance, I would suggest looking at the BenQ SW240. A surprisingly good performer for $399.

The BenQ SW270C is a 2K 27" monitor for $800. Like the smaller model above, it offers hardware calibration, wide color gamut, and uniformity correction.

Are the BenQ models equivalent to an NEC monitor designed for photo editing? No. None of the various models from NEC, Eizo, BenQ, etc., are equivalent to another despite whatever assertions may be made. They each bring with them their own set of features, design, engineering, and manufacturing process which result in differences in price, performance, and capabilities. That said, I wouldn't dismiss any reasonable option from consideration without careful examination of each product compared to individual needs and priorities.

Below are PRAD test links with Google translation to English for the monitors listed above...

PRAD Test of BenQ SW240  PRAD Test of BenQ 270C
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Czornyj

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2022, 06:11:12 am »

Are the BenQ models equivalent to an NEC monitor designed for photo editing? No. None of the various models from NEC, Eizo, BenQ, etc., are equivalent to another despite whatever assertions may be made. They each bring with them their own set of features, design, engineering, and manufacturing process which result in differences in price, performance, and capabilities. That said, I wouldn't dismiss any reasonable option from consideration without careful examination of each product compared to individual needs and priorities.
NEC PA 27" and 31" were virtually identical to EIZO CG and vice versa - same panels, same capabilities, same performance.
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ned

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2022, 10:39:11 am »

That's too bad they decided to discontinue this series. My last monitor, a Spectraview 2960Wuxi was fantastic with I believe over 40K hours. I decided to grab a PA311D before it was too late and I expect nothing short of the same kind of longevity.
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2022, 01:52:11 pm »

NEC PA 27" and 31" were virtually identical to EIZO CG and vice versa - same panels, same capabilities, same performance.

I've seen assertions like this before and they don't become any less false thru repetition. A monitor is much more than simply a panel or a backlight or any other component part. They are are the sum of all of their parts, programming, and processes. Different manufacturers produce different products even when a component might be the same. That should be obvious.

Monitors are much more complex than some may think. The incoming digital video signal undergoes multiple levels of calculated transformations before becoming a carefully controlled analog electrical signal eventually applied as a precise voltage to a tiny sub-pixel inside an analog screen.

Same panel and so... what? Everything else is "virtually identical"? Of course not. As one of many examples of different choices made in engineering and design; in their most recent CG and PA series monitors, NEC and Eizo used different approaches to something as basic as supplying power to the panel to control brightness. Eizo uses DC (Direct Current) dimming to regulate brightness while NEC chose to use PWM (Pulse Width Modulation). No... I'm not going to get pulled into a discussion about the advantages or disadvantages of either method and the difference it makes in the cost of manufacturing. It's just an example of how one component, like a display panel in this instance, may be treated differently and connected to entirely different surrounding components by two different manufacturers.

It illustrates why no one should accept anything they read as true without applying some of their reasoning skills and doing some further investigation of claims. What you choose to accept as fact, perceive as "virtually identical", or your understanding of differences will always be entirely up to you.
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jejes

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2022, 05:02:38 pm »

Please tell us the hack. I have a new benq monitor



Newest Benq are not that bad like former models, but they have no OCF so the off-angle black is not as good, and calibration software has some flaws (it uses wrong spectral correction for i1Display Pro, which can be fixed by a small hack).


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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2022, 11:25:55 pm »

Please tell us the hack. I have a new benq monitor

The "hack" involves replacing a system file, used in connection with X-Rite's i1Display Pro colorimeter, known as an EDR (Emissive Display Reference). The purpose of the file is to correct for the spectral characteristics of the display combined with the colorimeter being used in order to improve the calibration accuracy. A concise explanation of colorimeters and the use of a calibration matrix to improve accuracy can be found here.

X-Rite's SDK (Software Development Kit); for developers utilizing the i1Display Pro connected to their software, like BenQ, NEC, Eizo, etc., includes EDR files for various generic display types. A calibration matrix is calculated to improve the accuracy of the measurements. Accuracy is not an absolute like a switch that is either on or off, but a matter of degrees and this is a method commonly used to improve display calibration accuracy.

The "hack" or EDR "forging" procedure is to get a file and substitute it for a generic X-Rite file by renaming it using X-Rite's nomenclature and placing it in the system folder where EDR files are stored. The goal is to improve on the X-Rite generic files with a better (more accurate) generic file measured from a display technology that is closer to the spectral characteristics of your display. Replacing EDR files is a much discussed topic at the DisplayCal software forum by users interested in the pursuit of ever tighter tolerances wanting to get under the hood and make modifications.

If this is something that you wish to pursue, it would be necessary to know which display model you have to determine the general LCD panel type. Once that's known, you may be able to make some improvement in your current calibrations using the method described above. First, you may want to calibrate your new monitor and look at the results to determine if it's within your tolerance requirements for accuracy.
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TechTalk

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Re: Substitute for NEC PA-series monitors - discontinued
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2022, 02:11:19 am »

Eizo produces some worthwhile reading material and videos, how it's organized and what you will find varies somewhat depending on the regional website. Eizo APAC is an independent distributor of Eizo products in the Asia-Pacific market and produce some of their own educational and promotional material and videos. They have organized a collection of ColorEdge brochures and guides in one place for those interested. They also have produced their own technical guides and videos for specific applications. Les Walkling, also from Australia, has a concise explanation in a 5-minute video of manual editing of color settings for monitor soft proofing.

Eizo's subsidiaries in Europe have organized some information on color management and other resources that may be helpful to some. The Eizo Global website also has a variety of information and resources available.

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