Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: rasworth on April 22, 2020, 04:09:19 pm
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It's been announced in the US, B&H has them for pre-order. Ever since my 3880 died I've had the urge, but couldn't warm up to the P800. The P900 has all the boxes ticked off, unless sanity returns I will commit.
BTW the B&H website shows almost $500 shipping charge to Texas, I called and they stated it was an error, will be corrected to free shipping.
Richard Southworth
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Gotta love the smaller 50 ml ink cartridges compared to the 80 ml ones on the P800--NOT! Apparently the price per ml has increased although couldn't find data on that.
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There's an video about the new printers on PhotoPXL with an Epson rep, basically an ad, but interesting. I'm interested in the P900 but will await some objective testing by someone I respect.. There are lots of questions, from the real cost of ink, (but if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it), to the new software for printing that appears to integrate computer and printer drivers, to the ability of the printers to work with QTR (my personal choice for black and white printing). If one has no printer, there's a lot more pressure. I'm fortunate to have an Epson 3880 that's been serving me well for many years so I can and will wait.
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There are lots of questions, from the real cost of ink, (but if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it)...
Eric,
With all due respect, I am not sure I agree with that statement.
A printer is basically given away for a cheap amount because the money over it's life span is in the inks.
It seems legitimate to compare and take notice where there is a 30% price hike from generation to generation.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard,
Are you stating the ink is 30% more expensive for the P900 compared to the 3880? I haven't found any ink pricing.
Richard Southworth
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Bernard,
Are you stating the ink is 30% more expensive for the P900 compared to the 3880? I haven't found any ink pricing.
Richard Southworth
Hi Richard,
I hope I am wrong on this, but mention was made earlier in this thread that capacity of ink cartridges was 30% lower and price the same.
If some of that was an assumption that turns out to be inaccurate I'll gladly withdraw my comments. :)
Cheers,
Bernard
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some links and discussion regarding new cartridges for P900 are in "epson P800 replacement announced (maybe?)" thread
BR
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Most resellers should have them on their site. And we probably all offer free ground shipping on printers nowadays.
P700 is "expected" to ship to first group of orders early May and P900 sometime end of June. But pre-orders are being taken for both models. Shipping is based on first-come, first-serve though.
Per Epson's webinar details on the P900 ink, since you don't have to worry about the black switching, they made it a little smaller and it's also based on how a handful of users may not print as much and the cartridge would sit in the printer for a while. They did work on the cost of the ink so it will be less expensive and pretty close to the price of the P800 larger ink per cost area; basically less ink = less expensive.
We have a good amount of the details of the printer per the webinar on our product page as reference (minus ink details).
IT Supplies
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I.T. Supplies,
I would sign up except your price is $1295, $100 over the press release "estimated MSRP". At this point your only competition is B&H, which is listing at $1195.
Richard Southworth
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Richard,
I've passed that info to our manager and we can surely quote that price as we were waiting for Epson to give the go ahead since it's based on their end for resellers pricing.
All resellers should be at the minimum price Epson offers though; nothing lower.
Feel free to contact us if you want to be added to the pre-order and get that price.
IT Supplies
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I.T.Supplies,
Looks good, I'm in, thank you. Now the long wait....
Richard Southworth
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Per Epson's webinar details on the P900 ink, since you don't have to worry about the black switching, they made it a little smaller and it's also based on how a handful of users may not print as much and the cartridge would sit in the printer for a while. They did work on the cost of the ink so it will be less expensive and pretty close to the price of the P800 larger ink per cost area; basically less ink = less expensive.
That is great news!
Cheers,
Bernard
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Per Epson's webinar details on the P900 ink, since you don't have to worry about the black switching, they made it a little smaller and it's also based on how a handful of users may not print as much and the cartridge would sit in the printer for a while. They did work on the cost of the ink so it will be less expensive and pretty close to the price of the P800 larger ink per cost area; basically less ink = less expensive.
IT Supplies
Not sure what you mean by "ink per cost area", as you do not explain that. In the Netherlands (and in the UK, see the other thread about the P900) though the cost per ml is NOT close to the price of the P800. Price for the P900 compared to the P800: €0,78/ml versus €0,64/ml incl VAT.
BTW: The costs per ml for the Canon Pro-1000 are €0,56 incl VAT (at the same supplier). That is a huge difference with the P900. Yes, the Canon uses a lot of ink for its maintenance routines. For the P900, time will tell.
"Less ink = less expensive". If you mean the out of pocket costs, you are correct. But the cost per cartridge is irrelevant IMHO. What counts are the costs per ml and these are significantly higher with the smaller cartridges.
The ink consumption will be a bit less with the P900 as there is no black ink switching (hurray!), but how much that is taken into account in your statement is not clear to me, and will differ of course a lot per user case.
cheers,
Remko
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Remko,
Please aim us at your ink pricing data, I have not been able to find such for the P900.
Richard Southworth
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Remko,
Please aim us at your ink pricing data, I have not been able to find such for the P900.
Richard Southworth
Sure, Richard. It is a Dutch site though. This dealer is a an Epson Gold Partner, called Arca. I give you the link for both the P900 ink price and the P800 ink, assuming you do not understand dutch.
Here is the link for the price of P900 cartridges: https://www.arca.nl/inkt/epson+/surecolorsc-pserie/surecolor+sc-p900/
And here the link to their price for ink for the P800: https://www.arca.nl/inkt/epson+/surecolorsc-pserie/surecolorsc-p800/
As you will see the price per cartridge is €38,97 incl VAT for the P900. And the price for a P800 cartridge is €50,99 incl VAT.
(BTW is dutch for VAT).
cheers,
Remko
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Remko,
Thanks for the info, and you're correct, I speak no Dutch. I assume "2 tot 3 werkdagen" means 2 to 3 weeks before available?
Richard Southworth
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Remko,
Thanks for the info, and you're correct, I speak no Dutch. I assume "2 tot 3 werkdagen" means 2 to 3 weeks before available?
Richard Southworth
My pleasure, Richard.
No, "2 tot 3 werkdagen" means 2 to 3 working days ;)
Cheers,
Remko
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Before it's obtainable? If so, then the printer is closer to ship than I realized. No reason to have the ink in stock without the printer.
Richard Southworth
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Interesting new feature, Carbon Black Mode. For glossy media. This is from the printer description@ITSupplies.
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Anything new on the paper holding system - like vacuum (as in Canon Pro-1000) instead of the pesky pizza wheels?
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Before it's obtainable? If so, then the printer is closer to ship than I realized. No reason to have the ink in stock without the printer.
Richard Southworth
IIRC the new Epson printers will be available in Europe sooner than in North America. Also, 5 years ago the ink carts for the SC-P600 were also available a few weeks before the printer model itself arrived on the market. It surely makes sense to ensure that refills are available in quantity before making the printers available.
Cheers,
Fabien
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Epson us site shows ink priced at $41.99 per 50ml cartridge except for Light Grey, which cost $37.99usd.
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On the US Epson site, $41.99 for P900 50 ml. cartridges, and $63.00 for P800 80 ml. cartridges. Doing the arithmetic, P900 ink is $.84/ml and P800 ink is $79/ml. About a 6% increase from P800 to P900, not too far apart, assuming equal coverage per ml.
Richard Southworth
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Please also remember, that virtually all A2+ Epsons waste ~20% of ink, not using it, leaving inside cartridge at the end of its life.
Wondering, how is it going to be with P900 (P600 and Canon Pro1000 uses every drop of ink; P600 because of vertical loading, Pro1000 because of middle tanks inside of the printer).
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Good point, but doesn't change comparison much - the cost per ml becomes $1.05 and $.98, or a 7% increase for the P900 over the P800, assuming both printers waste 20%. And we can hope Epson has engineered more efficiency into the P900.
Richard Southworth
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I am curious why the Carbon Black Mode is for glossy media-since all piezography carbon inks are for matte papers. Also, it is matte that has the problem with deep blacks, not glossy...am I right?
Generally, though the P700/900 look like nice improvements for the desktop series. No switching black channels is a godsend.
Anyone have any idea what the updates are for the "AMC" printhead?
Interesting new feature, Carbon Black Mode. For glossy media. This is from the printer description@ITSupplies.
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Hi,
I believe (according to Epson UK info) that "carbon Black'' increases D-max, reduces bronzing and/or gloss differential and is for 'some' glossy media only.
New printhead apparently has some special coating to 'repel' ink. The resolution still appears to be based on 360dpi, with 180 nozzles per channel.
Epson UK brochure link to download:
https://www.epson.co.uk/verticals/business-solutions-for-professional-graphics/professional-photography
Cheers,
Phil
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Thanks for this thread.
I've owned several generations of Epson 17" tabletop printers. My current printer for the past 4 years is the Epson P800. I love the quality and I have never had any clogging or banding even though the printer can sit off and unused for months at a time. My previous 3880 was the same in this regard.
I was seriously considering the Epson P7570 to be able to print up to 24" wide, lower ink costs and the not black switching needed. However, I have been holding off due to concerns about my low usage.
Now with the announcement of the Epson P900, the black switching issue is finally resolved on the tabletop printer. I placed my pre-order with B&H Photo. Their website states June availability.
I would be interested in hearing from P7570 owners as to the minimum usage needed to keep the printer healthy and avoid clogging or banding issues.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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I just asked B&H. What is the capacity of the "Starter" ink cartridges?. The term starter is used in the product description @ B&H.
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From Epson's website: (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201)
In-box Cartridge Fill Volume: 50 mL each color x 10 colors total
which I would guess is the size of the cartridges in the shipping box. I believe that this just showed up - previously they were described only as initial cartridges.
Tony
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I believe the P900 has shipped in Europe, any feedback? I have one on order in the US.
Richard Southworth
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My local (Belgium) shop gave me a 2-3 week delivery time estimate (response from their Epson contact) on 30/4, but no P900 version seems to be available yet, nor in the neighbouring countries.
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Ok, thanks. The user manual is available on the UK Epson website - I jumped to an erroneous conclusion.
Richard Southworth
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If you're coming from a 3880, the P900 ink (at $42/50ml cart) is more costly when compared to the "old" price of $65 for a 3880 80ml cart.; the P900 ink is less expensive if compared to the "new" 3880 cartridge price of $75. All prices B&H, 25 May 2020.
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My P800 starter carts were 64ml and were empty really fast. I would suspect the same issue if not quicker for the 50ml starters in the P900.
If not purchased with printer I would at least set that $400+ aside right from the start.
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Some P700 printers have been delivered in the EU. The printer forum at DPR has some INTERESTING info 8).
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P900 shipping in US now mid July
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I read:
No Photo and Matte Black ink switching — dedicated nozzles for both black ink types — no switching needed
and think; At Last!
I Read:
New Carbon Black Driver Technology — all-new Carbon Black Driver mode dramatically increases Dmax for best-in-class black density on glossy papers
and think: very interesting!
I read:
Industry-leading print permanence — UltraChrome PRO10 ink is expected to create prints that have WIR display permanence ratings of up to 200 years for color and 400 years for black-and-white
and think; we will see about that. to early to tell
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In Japan the SC-PX1VL is scheduled to ship on 7-August.
It will therefore be roughly 5 months after announcement.
Cheers,
Bernard
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pschefz,
B&H still shows expected availability early June, where did you find mid July?
Richard Southworth
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pschefz,
B&H still shows expected availability early June, where did you find mid July?
Richard Southworth
I ordered at itsupplies , have bought there for years, when i ordered 2 weeks ago, they said early June as well....epson now says the date has slipped back...i guess the P700 should be out earlier.....i would not be surprised if the date slips back to august for the P900 though....
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Can someone help me understand how Epson can charge twice for ink for the 13" P700 than for the 17" P900 and get away with it?
Am I to believe shoppers would rather pay double for P700 ink just to save a mere 4 inches in width?
Both models weigh the same, for Pete's sake.
I don't get it.
Epson P900
24.2" x 14.5" x 7.8" (W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201 (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201)
Epson P700
20.3" x 14.5" x 7.3"(W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201 (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201)
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Unless you are a home printer with limited space these two printers have very limited appeal.(YOMV) When you figure in the cost of consumables they are crazy expensive to operate.
The P700 ink is coming in at almost a $1.60 a ml. The P900 .90 a ml. The P800 ink cost is around .73 a ml. I agree the no black ink change will be nice for many. Is it worth paying the higher ink cost, probably not.
Epson has you one way or another. You flush it with an ink change they have you. You buy the new printer with a 25% higher ink cost they still have you.
The best deal if you are an Epson person and have the room is a P6000 24" machine that can take 700ml carts. Full retail for those ink carts is $247 for 700ml.
I recently purchased some for $175@ Good dates too. You could buy 150's or 350's if you don't print that much.
That is .25 a ml. A huge savings.
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I'm not sold on the violet ink - not without more data on print permanence.
Using the violet ink on Epson's current printers decreases the print longevity significantly. In these printers, it's more for proofing, to match Pantone colours, than for photo printing.
If the new violet carries a similar penalty, I'd see little reason for photographers to use it - at least not without a RIP or other software solution to produce prints without using the violet at all.
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I'm not sold on the violet ink - not without more data on print permanence.
Using the violet ink on Epson's current printers decreases the print longevity significantly. In these printers, it's more for proofing, to match Pantone colours, than for photo printing.
If the new violet carries a similar penalty, I'd see little reason for photographers to use it - at least not without a RIP or other software solution to produce prints without using the violet at all.
Where did you get the info that the violet ink fades fast?
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Where did you get the info that the violet ink fades fast?
I don't know about the violet used in this inkset. This is based on the two different inksets you can choose for the previous generation - the standard edition with light light black and the commercial edition with violet
Light light black - better tonality, better longevity, meant for photos.
Violet - slightly wider gamut, able to match a wider range of Pantone colours, meant for pre-press and proofing work, not recommended for photos.
If they've managed to make a new violet which expands the gamut without sacrificing one of the black inks or sacrificing print permanence, that would be great. No-one ever said it was the same violet as the old one. It could well be that 'violet' here is more like the 'blue' in HP's Vivera inkset, which definitely scores high on permanence.
But I'd want some data before going all-in on it. After all, both Epson and Canon have a track record of sacrificing print permanence for more 'pop' for commercial work - Epson with the yellow in the Ultrachrome K3 inkset, which was much less permanent, but more vibrant, than their older yellow (somewhat ameliorated with the Ultrachrome HDR inkset, which used the same yellow, but had orange ink which could be used to cover for the weak yellow) and Canon with their recent Lucia Pro inkset, compared with the older Lucia EX inkset.
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Can someone help me understand how Epson can charge twice for ink for the 13" P700 than for the 17" P900 and get away with it?
Am I to believe shoppers would rather pay double for P700 ink just to save a mere 4 inches in width?
Both models weigh the same, for Pete's sake.
I don't get it.
Epson P900
24.2" x 14.5" x 7.8" (W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201 (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201)
Epson P700
20.3" x 14.5" x 7.3"(W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201 (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201)
They want you to buy the 900, I suppose. For extra $400, you get the bigger prints and half the cost of ink.
Looks like there is no lust lost here after initial excitement.....
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They want you to buy the 900, I suppose. For extra $400, you get the bigger prints and half the cost of ink.
I never print larger than 13x19", but I wouldn't get the P700 because it is virtually the same size as the P900 -- no desk space savings there. And it weighs the same 35.3lbs (down to the ounce, go figure). Sure, I'll have to fork over an extra $400 upfront, but there's no way I'm spending double for ink just for 4 extra inches of desk real estate. If the P700 were, say, ten pounds lighter or a third smaller, then you got a deal.
I suppose the P700 model is meant for those who rarely use it.
I am tempted to wait, however, to see if Canon will soon update their Pixma Pro-1 12-ink 13" model. How long has it been, 10 years?
UPDATE:
Epson's website is wrong. I downloaded the user manual to confirm the printers' dimensions. It turns out the P700 weighs 5 pounds less than the P900. That makes more sense. Plus the P900 weighs 8 pounds less than my Epson 3800. That's a pleasant surprise.
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B&HPhoto has a July 16 date for availability 8)
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Its still a mystery for me why my P800 has 80 mil ink carts and the new P900 has 50 mil ink carts.
I hope to be using the P800 for a long time based on the ink cart capacities. The new features of the P900 won't overcome that for me.
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I have one ordered, went to the B&H site to see the new date. Also found a new "In the box" list, that labels all cartridges "starter". Stay tuned.
Richard Southworth
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I have one ordered, went to the B&H site to see the new date. Also found a new "In the box" list, that labels all cartridges "starter". Stay tuned.
Richard Southworth
Starter cartridges are needed to purge the lines when doing the initial ink loading cycle. AFAIK they contain a special fluid for this purpose and cannot contain as much ink as normal cartridges.
The 100 dollar question is if the starter cartridges are full (as they were on my SC-P600) or if they will be half empty (as they were on the SC-P800).
Cheers,
Fabien
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What do you mean by special fluid?
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Starter cartridges are needed to purge the lines when doing the initial ink loading cycle. AFAIK they contain a special fluid for this purpose and cannot contain as much ink as normal cartridges.
The 100 dollar question is if the starter cartridges are full (as they were on my SC-P600) or if they will be half empty (as they were on the SC-P800).
What do you mean by special fluid?
AFAIK, it's the printer that sometimes comes with a special packing fluid in the lines, dampers (if any), etc., a sort of Cosmoline for printers. The starter cartridges do not contain any such fluid; they contain regular ink. In some printers the presence of starter cartridges may trigger the printer to run a purge cycle, where it pumps enough fluid through the system (dampers, lines, and head(s) to the waste tank) to make sure all the packing fluid is gone and ink is in its place.
AFAIK, the P800 starter cartridges were not half full; instead they were 80% full, listed as 64ml instead of the regular 80ml. Of course some of that 64ml gets drawn from the cartridges to fill the lines etc. when the printer is initialized for the first time. Maybe after that the cartridges have a remaining capacity of half of a regular ink cartridge. But that doesn't mean much ink was wasted. I have to think that the large majority of ink drawn from the starter cartridges during that initialization remains in the lines etc., available for printing.
Although it is well-known that P800 starter cartridges came with 64ml ink instead of the full 80ml, I have not yet seen any reports on how much ink comes in P900 starter cartridges. There have been complaints that not much is left after initializing. But to engage in some math speculation: if (as some have said) about 50% remains in a P800 starter cartridge after initialization, that means that about 40ml remains, so about 64ml - 40ml = 24ml was used for initialization. If the P900 starter cartridges likewise come 80% full relative to their regular 50ml capacity, then that would mean they come with 40ml of ink. If the same (as the P800) 24ml is used for initialization, that would mean that 40ml - 24ml = 16ml remains. 16ml is 32% of the full 50ml.
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That's better, I understand. Sounded like you said the starter carts had a special fluid.
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After several miscommunications with Epson (P900 was interpreted to be P9000) they stated the starter cartridges hold 25ml, i.e. 50% normal. May have to re-think my purchase, IMO it's excessive corporate greed.
Richard Southworth
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Per B&H $420 for 10 cartridges. Any opinions on reasonableness or the lack thereof?
Richard Southworth
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The Canon Pro 1000 goes for $1000 or so after rebate, and comes with full 80 ml cartridges? The P100 costs $1200 with 25ml starter cartridges? My lust for the P900 is fading, sanity may return.
Richard Southworth
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Starter carts are a perfect example of manufacturer obfuscation and hidden cost. Many buyers of these prosumer photo printers are not even aware that the ink carts that come in the box with the printer have been shortchanged. The manufacturer - Epson is not alone, but they certainly are front and center with the practice - wants you to drop another half a thousand dollars sooner, not later.
The irony is that "starter" carts ought to have more ink than standard, not less, in order to charge the lines. Corporate greed, indeed.
The good news is that other improvements notwithstanding - the dedicated photo and matte black lines in the new P900 is certainly welcome - actual print quality improvements are almost certainly going to be incremental, and quite modest. That won't be a reason to upgrade.
I'll continue to run my older P800. But my next printer will probably be a Canon Pro-1000.
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i just saw some wilhelm-research info on Epson,Canon and HP inks on Canson paper.
in short : the new Epson inks seems to be better; HP-Vivera still best. Canon has gone down. ( and Canson paper comes out very good)
However as Mark McCormick ( aardenburg-imaging.com) -has pointed out: some colours fade faster than others... and WilhemResearch does not take that into account the way Mark does.
For instance:the white in Cansons RC paper may turn yellow faster than WIR's values.
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AFAIK, it's the printer that sometimes comes with a special packing fluid in the lines, dampers (if any), etc., a sort of Cosmoline for printers. The starter cartridges do not contain any such fluid; they contain regular ink. In some printers the presence of starter cartridges may trigger the printer to run a purge cycle, where it pumps enough fluid through the system (dampers, lines, and head(s) to the waste tank) to make sure all the packing fluid is gone and ink is in its place.
[...]
Thanks for correcting this, looks like I misunderstood that part of the starter cartridges. IIRC the initial purge cycle can only be triggered by starter cartridges, but they are no longer accepted (as a subsequent set) once the initial purge has been done.
Cheers,
Fabien
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I have seen recommends to buy a second set of inks as the initial load and priming of the printer feed tubes and printhead take most of the supplied set. However the inks seem hard to come by just yet so hopefully they will become more readily available? I am guessing this is true of the P700 also.
Perhaps Epson could supply a discounted second set on purchase of the printer?
Having watched a few webinar presentations by Epson themselves I did think the printers looked rather lightly built (fragile)? I have not seen them in the flesh yet and am unlikely to for sometime so will be interested in owner feedback on this?
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From Epson's web site:
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201 (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201)
"In-box Cartridge Fill Volume:
50 mL each color x 10 colors total"
I would guess that if their website says this, that you would have a good argument on getting something from them if it comes with anything less than a full set of 50 ml cartridges.
Tony
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From Epson's web site:
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201 (https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201)
"In-box Cartridge Fill Volume:
50 mL each color x 10 colors total"
I would guess that if their website says this, that you would have a good argument on getting something from them if it comes with anything less than a full set of 50 ml cartridges.
Except that the same page says, "What's in the box: ... Initial Ink Cartridges" (italics added). It doesn't tell you how much ink is in the initial ink cartridges, but the Q&As for the P900 at B&H contain responses that Epson had told the posters the P900's initial cartridges contain 25ml each.
Don't get me wrong: I think Epson should either (1) plainly state that the included ink cartridges contain a smaller-than-normal amount of ink, and preferably clearly say 25ml each or whatever; or (2) include the usual amount of ink in them. But this is nothing new for this class of Epson printer, and seems unlikely to get anywhere with Epson.
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Unless you are a home printer with limited space these two printers have very limited appeal.(YOMV) When you figure in the cost of consumables they are crazy expensive to operate.
The P700 ink is coming in at almost a $1.60 a ml. The P900 .90 a ml. The P800 ink cost is around .73 a ml. I agree the no black ink change will be nice for many. Is it worth paying the higher ink cost, probably not.
Epson has you one way or another. You flush it with an ink change they have you. You buy the new printer with a 25% higher ink cost they still have you.
The best deal if you are an Epson person and have the room is a P6000 24" machine that can take 700ml carts. Full retail for those ink carts is $247 for 700ml.
I recently purchased some for $175@ Good dates too. You could buy 150's or 350's if you don't print that much.
That is .25 a ml. A huge savings.
I'm a hobbyist and print in spurts. My P800 can be off for months and fired up to make a few prints and I have never experienced a head clog. I also never had a head clog with my previous printer the Epson 3880.
I looked at the new P7570 to replaced my excellent Epson P800 because I wanted the ability to print wider, no loss black in switching, and lower ink cost per print. However, I cannot find any reliable information about the minimum throughput needed to keep the printer healthy. I would definitely go for this printer if my workflow would allow to operate without issues. I keep searching for user experiences and reviews on this printer, but I have not found any since the initial release.
The Epson P900 solves the black ink switching issue and improves print quality. I have one on order with B&H Photo. They are supposed to start getting stock on 7/15.
Do you have any experiences similar to my usage with the larger Epson 24" that you can share? That would be helpful.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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B&HPhoto has a July 16 date for availability 8)
When I placed my order in late May the website listed June, then after seeing your post I checked and sure enough it listed July 16th, even as late as yesterday (July 14th) it listed the 16th. Today I see that it now lists as "New Item - Coming Soon". I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing maybe August or September. However, at the same time I ordered the P900, I also ordered an extra set of inks and they were also listed as new item coming soon until today and it now states 7 to 14 days.
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Do you have any experiences similar to my usage with the larger Epson 24" that you can share? That would be helpful.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
I replaced a P800 with a P7000 two and a half years ago. All was fine with only a very occasional clog that usually cleared with just another nozzle check. Then, in April, I had a complete yellow head failure. Fortunately, I had Epson's extended service coverage, so they replace the head and other components, and it seems back to normal now, although the latest firmware has me baffled about auto-clean frequency. This is the first head failure I have had in 5 Epson printers, including the P800 and a 7800. With the smaller printers, I take my chances, but with a 24" or 44" I think the three-year service plan is wise
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I've been getting very good results with the P800 for 3 years but as the OP stated GAS appeared with the announcement of the P900. Has anyone done real world comparisons of prints using the same file? Whatever "savings on ink" are surely lost to depreciated sale of my printer and ink to trade up. So that leaves the appreciable gains in print quality. Until the printer is in the hands of a respected agnostic reviewer, it seems we are all guessing.
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I've been getting very good results with the P800 for 3 years but as the OP stated GAS appeared with the announcement of the P900. Has anyone done real world comparisons of prints using the same file? Whatever "savings on ink" are surely lost to depreciated sale of my printer and ink to trade up. So that leaves the appreciable gains in print quality. Until the printer is in the hands of a respected agnostic reviewer, it seems we are all guessing.
Indeed, which is why I would recommend waiting if you can.
Improved paper handling for thick media (front loading on the P600/P800 is a chore) and for rolls could trigger an instant buy. :)
Cheers,
Fabien
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I hope this is good news forth coming!
Back in May, I placed a pre-order with B&H for the P900 along with a second set of inks. While the printer is still listed as "Backordered", the set of inks is now listed as "Order in process" and my CC was charged this morning. B&H usually doesn't charge the card until it is ready to or has begun to ship an order.
An update! Today I received notice that the whole set has shipped and ETA is 6 August (Thursday).
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Keith, here's hoping the inks aren't tiny.
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Keith, here's hoping the inks aren't tiny.
Standard cartridges are a known quantity at 50 ml. But it is unclear if all the ink in a cartridge can be used. Some users of the P800 were suggesting that up to 20% might be wasted so the same could apply to the P900, assuming a similar ink delivery system.
Cheers,
Fabien
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Standard cartridges are a known quantity at 50 ml. But it is unclear if all the ink in a cartridge can be used. Some users of the P800 were suggesting that up to 20% might be wasted so the same could apply to the P900, assuming a similar ink delivery system.
Cheers,
Fabien
Fabien,
I have a P800 and it has 80ml cartridges. Its hard for me to grasp why the P900 carts are 50ml. When my 80ml carts require replacement it doesn't seem like 20% is left in the cart to me.
This will all get sorted out I guess when the P900 starts to ship and is the hands of people. I looks like a nice printer but I'm not looking my P800 anyway so this is just curiosity on my part.
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[...]When my 80ml carts require replacement it doesn't seem like 20% is left in the cart to me.
In fact, ~20% is left. Empirically proved for number of colours for 3880 and P800. Finished cart disassembled, ink that remained taken out, weighted, capacity measured.
Number of cases also reported for 24 and 44 inch Epsons.
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It doesn't matter how much is left. What matters is how much ink was delivered to the printer. Can that be calculated? Weight before and after use? BTW, both my original 3800 (what a printer!) and my current P800 were refurbs bought direct from Epson. Both came with full ink carts. Both functioned as new.
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It doesn't matter how much is left. What matters is how much ink was delivered to the printer. Can that be calculated? Weight before and after use? BTW, both my original 3800 (what a printer!) and my current P800 were refurbs bought direct from Epson. Both came with full ink carts. Both functioned as new.
It was delivered about 75%-85% out of 80 ml. I weighted number of new carts and then "empty" ones. Disassembled them after use measured weight and capacity of left ink. Number of times.
My 3880 still works like a charm as well. I consider to go to P7500, so need to sell P800 or 3880 and probably I will sell P800 and keep 3880 :-).
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If that holds true for the P900, owners are going to really be %^&*( about the smaller carts.
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It was delivered about 75%-85% out of 80 ml. I weighted number of new carts and then "empty" ones. Disassembled them after use measured weight and capacity of left ink. Number of times.
My 3880 still works like a charm as well. I consider to go to P7500, so need to sell P800 or 3880 and probably I will sell P800 and keep 3880 :-).
Thanks for confirming the 80% assumption.
Some of that 80% will also land into the waste ink pad, but that tends to heavily depend on the usage pattern of the printer. I suppose it wouldn't make sense to weight the waste ink pad given the evaporation of ink that will take place over its life?
Anyway, the P900 makes sense for someone like me who currently owns a P600 and is not a high volume printer. As Ron points out, not so for P800 owners, unless one wishes to leave black ink switching behind.
Cheers,
Fabien
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Fabien,
My photography and printing is my pastime. I don't sweat the ink switching as I do B&W prints in batches to minimize the switching.
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Initially I jumped on the instant switching, no waste of ink or time, idea. I've been printing with Epson 38xx printers for many years and while I realize it's not much ink or time, it still bothers me. However, the 50ml ink cartridge really put a crimp in my enthusiasm. As I've said before, I'll await a review by Mark Segal and or Keith Cooper. My current beloved 3880 continues to function.
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Keith Cooper received a P700 (the 13" version) and is in the process of reviewing it over on DPReview.
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I placed my preorder with B&H Photo in April when it was first announced. As of today, they still cannot tell me when they will have them in stock to ship to preorders.
Has anyone seen one of these in the wild?
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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No one knows when we'll see either the P700 or P900 in the US. There are some in Europe that have reportedly received them however. I preordered the 900 in May along with an extra inkset. Well the ink arrived today, so maybe they will start showing up sooner rather than later.
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Fabien,
My photography and printing is my pastime. I don't sweat the ink switching as I do B&W prints in batches to minimize the switching.
I try to do the same on the P600 as I prefer matte papers for B&W prints and baryta papers for colour prints. But this is one constraint that would go away on the new models and could to some extent offset the higher ink price.
On the other hand, people who only use MK or PK (but not both) would have one more incentive to stay on the previous generation of printers. Having to replace smaller black ink cartridges that are never used (but are emptied by cleaning cycles) would be an unwelcome expense.
Cheers,
Fabien
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Availability in Japan of the P900 now pushed to 30-Sept.
It seems the P700 once became available but is now out of stock without a clear plan for availability.
Cheers,
Bernard
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So, announced to be available by 2nd quarter might be available by the 4th quarter?
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Pre pandemic promises are unlikely to be delivered, production of parts or finished goods relying on off-shore manufacturing will be impacted by the global pandemic.
Brian.
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Companies do not make money by NOT shipping products. Occasionally it almost seems as though folks believe Epson is playing some sort of game. It's clearly in their interest to ship as soon as they can. It may not be exciting, but patient waiting the only rational approach. I suspect very few of us are dependent on this printer for our livelihood.
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I don't believe Epson is playing games but those on the fence between the announced printers and the recently announced canons may be inclined to choose which is available 1st.
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A suspicious and worrying lack of unbiased reviews of both the P700 and P900. I did see a customer complaining that following installation and priming of the ink delivery tubes that their P700 was showing 15% ink only left and this is before any printing? I had heard (but I forget where) that one is advised to buy a second set of inks immediately but these were in short supply.
Does anyone know of any honest reviews yet published? The new Canon printer seems to be stealing the thunder?
Looking at the promotional videos the printers appear flimsy? Any owners out there care to comment/set this right?
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A suspicious and worrying lack of unbiased reviews of both the P700 and P900.
I haven't seen any biased reviews either. There haven't been any real reviews of these printers yet. Be patient.
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A suspicious and worrying lack of unbiased reviews of both the P700 and P900....
Does anyone know of any honest reviews yet published? The new Canon printer seems to be stealing the thunder?
First, Keith Cooper received a P700--two actually, after he broke a part on the first one--and has been posting about it at DPR (see https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64172499 (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64172499) and https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64253425 (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64253425)). I'm confident he'll post one of his usual excellent reviews when he's done.
Second, although some P700s seem to have trickled out, I think mostly in Europe, I have not heard of any P900 in a user's hands. And the same goes for the Canon Pro-300. I have no idea how much is covid and how much is regular delays between announcement and widespread availability. But I think patience is key.
I did see a customer complaining that following installation and priming of the ink delivery tubes that their P700 was showing 15% ink only left and this is before any printing? I had heard (but I forget where) that one is advised to buy a second set of inks immediately but these were in short supply.
That has indeed been reported. See, e.g., https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63958618 (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63958618) and https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64158800 (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64158800). I analyzed the data from the latter at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64163661 (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64163661).
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P700 review from Red River Paper....
https://www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/epson-surecolor-p700-review-and-insiders-guide.html?utm_campaign=Epson%20P700%20Review%20%28Savh8v%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter%20Active&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJyZG9uc29uQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIk5rY2l5TiJ9
Unless I've missed something this looks insane.
About $37.99 per tank (25 mL capacity) for a $799 printer
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P700 review from Red River Paper....
https://www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/epson-surecolor-p700-review-and-insiders-guide.html?utm_campaign=Epson%20P700%20Review%20%28Savh8v%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter%20Active&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJyZG9uc29uQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIk5rY2l5TiJ9
Good suggestion / link, thanks!
Unless I've missed something this looks insane.
About $37.99 per tank (25 mL capacity) for a $799 printer
I think what you missed is that it's not significantly more expensive than ink for the predecessor, the P600, which is $36.99 for 25.9ml, i.e., only 6% cheaper. And the P700 supposedly uses less ink for a given amount of printing, and in any case there's no black ink switching loss, so the net ink cost is probably very similar.
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Good suggestion / link, thanks!
I think what you missed is that it's not significantly more expensive than ink for the predecessor, the P600, which is $36.99 for 25.9ml, i.e., only 6% cheaper. And the P700 supposedly uses less ink for a given amount of printing, and in any case there's no black ink switching loss, so the net ink cost is probably very similar.
that is The advantage of a larger printer, besides its professional build.
I am at about 0,5€ per ml of genuine ink.
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P700 review from Red River Paper....
https://www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/epson-surecolor-p700-review-and-insiders-guide.html?utm_campaign=Epson%20P700%20Review%20%28Savh8v%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter%20Active&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJyZG9uc29uQGdtYWlsLmNvbSIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIk5rY2l5TiJ9
Unless I've missed something this looks insane.
About $37.99 per tank (25 mL capacity) for a $799 printer
"The P700 comes with a starter set of inks. We estimate they are 10% full, and installation is straightforward." - it does not sound good...
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Anyone receiving the P900 in the US yet? I’ve been on the B&H list for ages.
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Only the 700 has appeared in Europe and very sparingly. Don't expect to see either the 700 or 900 in the USA until the 4th quarter at the earliest. I too have been on the BH waitlist since May.
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In anticipation of the Epson P900 in June I sold my Epson 3880 and all the ink on hand. The expected P900 delivery via BH was listed as July 16. Currently there is no predicted delivery date for the printer -- but art least I have the ink. It has been lonely with no printer at all and now hearing that the new one may not come for several more weeks.
Does anyone have insights as to what is causing the delay? A last minute glitch in manufacturing or is it attributable to the COVID 19 issues impacting the whole world but particularly the US? I noticed that one commentor has been waiting since last May making my June sign on look late.
Don
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Can't speak for the US, but here in Australia we wait for months for any online orders because of the virus having reduced the operations of so many businesses. The other day there was a newspaper article "Does your package seem to go across the country and back again several times?" Well, yes it does as couriers get completely overloaded. It also happens because customers are buying much more online.
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For those interested
Keith Cooper of http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/keiths-photography-blog/ according to his own words is planning to release his review of the P700 on Wednesday 26th August 2020. This should broadly applicable to the P900 also.
It is pretty clear that the P900 is the 'wiser buy' as far as ink cartridge volume/price.
I agree though that the huge delay in the P900 suggests 'trouble at mill' i.e. some manufacturing glitch perhaps as important is how available the ink cartridges are to buy since so much ink is consumed on set-up (of the P700) that Epson Europe are supplying a 'free' extra maintenance cartridge.
I can only think this is because the initial one gets filled (or almost filled) on set-up?
I really cannot get my head around why Epson chose smaller ink cartridges for the P900 versus the P800 it replaces?
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I really cannot get my head around why Epson chose smaller ink cartridges for the P900 versus the P800 it replaces?
Just guessing, because the typical P800 user probably used to change cartirdges every 12 months or so, and it's bad to leave the ink "open" for long periods of time.
Even I, happy R3000 owner, sometime leave tiny 25.9ml cartridges for a year or more (less used colors), and I print quite a lot, but small in size..
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I really cannot get my head around why Epson chose smaller ink cartridges for the P900 versus the P800 it replaces?
So Epson could make it smaller.
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But why? Who needs or wants a smaller printer?
I would pay more to have it heavier, less plastic, more robust, like the P5000.
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The P5000 is a very nice printer but some people are reluctant to spend the extra $$$ for it and go for the P800 or the new P900 instead.
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But why? Who needs or wants a smaller printer?
I would pay more to have it heavier, less plastic, more robust, like the P5000.
[/quote/
Who knows, bragging rights maybe. But they're certainly making a lot of noise about how much smaller it is than the older model.
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For those interested
Keith Cooper of http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/keiths-photography-blog/ according to his own words is planning to release his review of the P700 on Wednesday 26th August 2020. This should broadly applicable to the P900
His review is now online and includes links to videos he has made about the printer. The review is quite extensive and informative.
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The 3800, the 3880, the P800, and the soon-to-be P900 have all set square in the middle of the Prosumer DIY printer marketplace. That printer size/quality and price point were very attractive to a broad audience, ranging from serious amateurs to value-oriented professionals.
Epson's focus on size and looks in the P900 suggests that the marketing folks have gained ascendency over the engineers. Alas.
I predict a short product lifecycle, as Epson learns the hard way that they didn't really understand the customers who bought all those older, mid-size, pigment-ink photo printers.
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Epson's focus on size and looks in the P900 suggests that the marketing folks have gained ascendency over the engineers. Alas.
I predict a short product lifecycle, as Epson learns the hard way that they didn't really understand the customers who bought all those older, mid-size, pigment-ink photo printers.
Certainly having read Keith Coopers review of the P700 (and the P900 must be the same) it does look like Epson have not quite got it right this time and there is some truth in what you say. The reduction in the volumes of ink are beyond belief? The paper handling (with paper now costing more than ever!) leaves something to be desired. The prosumer/enthusiast printer really has no natural 'obvious' buy in this printer area with the horrendous issues with the now discontinued Canon Imageprograf 1000, the minute ink cartridges in the Canon 300 and now Epson have potentially missed a great chance possibly without some rapid changes by Epson.
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The 3800, the 3880, the P800, and the soon-to-be P900 have all set square in the middle of the Prosumer DIY printer marketplace. That printer size/quality and price point were very attractive to a broad audience, ranging from serious amateurs to value-oriented professionals.
Epson's focus on size and looks in the P900 suggests that the marketing folks have gained ascendency over the engineers. Alas.
I predict a short product lifecycle, as Epson learns the hard way that they didn't really understand the customers who bought all those older, mid-size, pigment-ink photo printers.
I don't know enough about the new printers to be able to agree with confidence, but that's my hunch too. The 3800 and 3880 were positioned by Epson as Pro printers, albeit at the bottom of the Pro range. I can't help but wonder whether too many non-pro folk were buying them, rather than the smaller desktop printers with higher per ml ink costs.
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The prosumer/enthusiast printer really has no natural 'obvious' buy in this printer area with the horrendous issues with the now discontinued Canon Imageprograf 1000...
Not sure where you are getting it. Printer is for sale on Canon USA web site and at B&H. I haven't seen any evidence it has been discontinued (but I certainly wouldn't buy one myself).
John
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Not sure where you are getting it. Printer is for sale on Canon USA web site and at B&H. I haven't seen any evidence it has been discontinued (but I certainly wouldn't buy one myself).
John
See here (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-printer-news-updates-and-rumours/)
I guess Canon USA are dumping old stock at lower prices?
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See here (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-printer-news-updates-and-rumours/)
I guess Canon USA are dumping old stock at lower prices?
That page says the following: " If we’re seeing an update to the PRO-1000 then I’ll be very surprised if it’s in 2020." No replacement model has been announced. The Pro-10 is being replaced. Of course the PRO-1000 will be replaced eventually. So far this is all rumor and speculation.
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Certainly having read Keith Coopers review of the P700 (and the P900 must be the same) it does look like Epson have not quite got it right this time and there is some truth in what you say. The reduction in the volumes of ink are beyond belief? The paper handling (with paper now costing more than ever!) leaves something to be desired. The prosumer/enthusiast printer really has no natural 'obvious' buy in this printer area with the horrendous issues with the now discontinued Canon Imageprograf 1000, the minute ink cartridges in the Canon 300 and now Epson have potentially missed a great chance possibly without some rapid changes by Epson.
Keith's review of the P700 IMO clearly shows that the printer is a bit flimsy and not up to the durability standards of the previous generation. The paper exit tray and roll holder look like they could fail after little use. I am unsure what to think of the paper handling rails which put the paper in the centre of the tray, no matter the size. That doesn't look like a heavy duty system.
Initial cartridges are almost empty after the initial ink load, as previously suspected. The endurance of the maintenance tank is an utter joke as it needs to be replaced after only two sets of cartridges. This seems to be a result of the initial ink load procedure which purges the fluid in the lines and is not representative of the normal behaviour later in the life of the printer.
The only good news is that the printer seems to be able to completely use the ink in the cartridges, with only a few drops left in the used cartridges.
If the P900 is an identical build scaled to 17" width, it doesn't look good. We now know what is the price to pay for a smaller and lighter printer. I predict that Epson will have to lower the recommended price to clear inventory.
Cheers,
Fabien
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I just disposed of my defective Canon Pro-1 and will replace it with a P900. Compared to the Pro-1, this will give me:
- A2 print sizes. The Pro-1 only got to A3+ sizes, but in practice much less due to the 1 inch print margins on most papers.
- More space in my office, and due the lower weight I may even store it somewhere else when I’m not printing.
My ink usage on the Pro-1 was terrible due to my infrequent printing. It seemed that every time I printed something I had to spent half an hour going through cleaning cycles and replacing half of the cartridges. Hopefully the P900 isn’t that bad with ink waste, and even if it is, I guess that’s the cost of infrequent printing.
For me, the low weight and relatively small size (for an A2 photo printer) is THE reason to buy this printer, and I am not aware of anything else that scores better in this regard.
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Nicov,
What you say makes sense and the P900 seems ideal for your usage however most printers are not fond of being moved back and forth so my advice would be to only do this if absolutely necessary. Enjoy the P900 and let us know how you get on.
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I just disposed of my defective Canon Pro-1 and will replace it with a P900. Compared to the Pro-1, this will give me:
- A2 print sizes. The Pro-1 only got to A3+ sizes, but in practice much less due to the 1 inch print margins on most papers.
- More space in my office, and due the lower weight I may even store it somewhere else when I’m not printing.
My ink usage on the Pro-1 was terrible due to my infrequent printing. It seemed that every time I printed something I had to spent half an hour going through cleaning cycles and replacing half of the cartridges. Hopefully the P900 isn’t that bad with ink waste, and even if it is, I guess that’s the cost of infrequent printing.
For me, the low weight and relatively small size (for an A2 photo printer) is THE reason to buy this printer, and I am not aware of anything else that scores better in this regard.
Totally agree with everything you say here as from my observations and what little there is to read about the P700 and P900 is true. I am very disappointed as having sworn never to buy another Canon printer (the Imageprograf pro 1000 is a nightmare) the new Epsons appeared to be a dream answer for me personally. I was especially interested by the 'blacker' black (DMAX) and the removal of black cartridge swopping out. The Epson printer nozzle blockage reputation and a non-replaceable print head still hang over Epsons like the sword of Damocles.
The initial ink usage priming the printer for first use is a necessary evil but in a way the ink cartridge volumes (of both printers) is clearly exposed as more than mean but in fact a design/engineering/marketing error. Keith Cooper of Northlight-images.co.uk has opened a P700 cartridge and reported that there is space for more ink (I do not know if this is true in a P900 ink cartridge). Epson would do well to quickly address this issue by 'upping' the ink volumes and retaining the pricing. I am only guessing (on the engineering front) that this is feasible and it may not be so. Certainly manufacturing larger maintenance cartridges would require re-tooling and drastic changes but halving the price of maintenance cartridges would address that quickly.
I am tempted to get one of the few remaining P800s and equipping it with either Permajets or Fotospeeds refillable ink systems that I have heard good things about. An extra cost outlay that soon pays for itself and frees the artist photographer to print more and more cheaply.
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I acquired the 800 to replace a 4800 in May when a rebate was available with the idea of repurposing it to use Piezography with the chip less solution and pre ordered the 900 for color. At the time, I also ordered a 2nd set of inks and a maintenance tank for the 900. I now have the ink and tank but am very surprised that the tank is the same size for the 900 as it is for the 700. If what I read about the 700 maintenance tank almost full upon the initial fill, then the 900 will definitely be full. These tanks are small in size in that it would almost fit inside the maintenance tank of my 4800. Price for the tank is $20.00 at B&H.
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I acquired the 800 to replace a 4800 in May when a rebate was available with the idea of repurposing it to use Piezography with the chip less solution and pre ordered the 900 for color. At the time, I also ordered a 2nd set of inks and a maintenance tank for the 900. I now have the ink and tank but am very surprised that the tank is the same size for the 900 as it is for the 700. If what I read about the 700 maintenance tank almost full upon the initial fill, then the 900 will definitely be full. These tanks are small in size in that it would almost fit inside the maintenance tank of my 4800. Price for the tank is $20.00 at B&H.
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And the 4800 maintenance tanks can be reused indefinitely by just resetting the chip.
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I acquired the 800 to replace a 4800 in May when a rebate was available with the idea of repurposing it to use Piezography with the chip less solution and pre ordered the 900 for color. At the time, I also ordered a 2nd set of inks and a maintenance tank for the 900. I now have the ink and tank but am very surprised that the tank is the same size for the 900 as it is for the 700. If what I read about the 700 maintenance tank almost full upon the initial fill, then the 900 will definitely be full. These tanks are small in size in that it would almost fit inside the maintenance tank of my 4800. Price for the tank is $20.00 at B&H.
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And the 4800 maintenance tanks can be reused indefinitely by just resetting the chip.
Thanks Keith, that is very interesting and I would suppose/expect the same as you though in practical terms. However even though the P900 has greater volume of ink than the P700 in its cartridges I guess only a similar volume of ink (slightly more in P900 as I guess the tubes are slightly longer) is needed to replace the shipping fluid and to prime the print head. Thus a similar amount of shipping fluid and ink would be ejected into their respective maintenance cartridges?
However it does imply that volume printers will be forever buying maintenance cartridges as they fill quickly? Perhaps as Mearussi has posted below a solution (please excuse the pun) is needed to reset the maintenance tanks and re-use them? After all recycling is good for the planet and in this case the pocket!
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That is what I have done over the years but they won't fit in the 900. If you tried to reset chips on the 800, epson firmware locks you out. When I made the decision to update my printers, I contacted Jon Cone and asked about a timetable for new chips/carts & color inks for the 900 and he replied that at least 3 - 5 years before anything could be made, so who knows when it may happen.
However, the 4800 is over 16 years old technology and I have already replaced the heads in previous printers and the 3rd one which is running fine now but the future is coming to an end in the short time. I was informed that replacement parts are no longer being made. I had two that I ended up taking to the recycler as nobody wanted them, even for parts. Selling on the bay, given the cost of shipping would have cost more than what would get for selling it. My current 4800 is running piezography just fine now but for how long? It's only a matter of time.
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An interesting situation in desktop printers to be sure... I was surprised by the cartridge-size decisions on both the Canon Pro-300 and the two new Epsons. That said, the very short life on the initial inks with the P700 may be strictly an initial ink problem - that ink is essentially going into the hoses. A 13" printer with 25ml cartridges isn't going to have great cartridge life, but it may not be as abysmal after the first set (having to buy a set of ink with the printer is very unfortunate, though). Keith Cooper often keeps printers a while (and is on here from time to time) - if he still has the P700, it'll be interesting to see what his longer-term experience with ink consumption is.
Looking at B&H's website, the P700 makes NO sense, compared to its own P900 stablemate. The two are effectively the same price unless the P900 comes with underfilled ink cartridges (P700 is $800 plus an immediate set of spare inks for $379). The P900 is $1200, but comes with inks that are twice as large - it effectively comes with that first set of spare inks. Each ink for the P700 is $37.99, while the P900 inks are $41.99 for twice as much ink! The P900 should leave some ink after setup (again, assuming the initial cartridges are full), because the longer hoses will only take a few ml more to fill, while the cartridges have an extra 25ml. Unfortunately, they use the same maintenance cartridge (fortunately, it's cheap) - that's going to fill even faster on the P900, because it has slightly longer hoses.
I was very surprised to see those tiny inks in Canon's Pro-300. I thought we'd left low-end desktop cartridges in high-end photo printers behind a while ago. it's not the same ink inside, but it's a very similar cartridge to what's in Canon's $100 printers, and it just doesn't hold enough ink for a $800 13" printer.
The Pro-1000 is an older printer, but it uses a top-end modern inkset. It's identical to what's in Canon's current big roll printers, and it actually uses the same head as well. The ink cost per ml is about 25% higher than for the big roll machines ($700 for a set of 80 ml cartridges, while 160ml carts for the roll printers are $1150 per set, for twice the ink). Will Canon release a "Pro-1200" soon? If so, will it be similar to what they did to the Pro-2000, 4000, 6000 lineup last year when they introduced the Pro-x100 versions (user interface and paper handling improvements, but same inks, heads and print engine)? Or will we see some of the ink improvements from the Pro-300 migrate into a full 12-color inkset?
The only other high-end desktop printer out there is Epson's P5000, and it's big enough that if you have space for it, you can probably fit a 24" printer. Depending on rebates, it also may not be much cheaper...
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.... unless the P900 comes with underfilled ink cartridges
That's highly likely in my view. Almost guaranteed. I'll be shocked if it doesn't. Epson have a hidden increase in the price of these printers, compared to their predecessors, in that you need to buy a new set of cartridges with the printer. That's no small thing.
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On the B&H website, it states that it comes with "starter cartridges". I believe that's a hint that they're not fully complete carts.
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If Canon do replace the Imageprograf Pro 1000 then they need to fix the cartridge jam design fault that is writing off printers and sending them to the dump! Also it is vitally important to any purchasers of the dwindling stock of Pro 1000s that they understand they should not be powered off at night and MUST be printed on every 60 hours (at least) to prevent excessive cleaning cycles and ink dumping into the maintenance cartridge. It is this latter issue that must be addressed in any replacement!
As far as my experience with the Pro 1000s in other respects I never had a misfeed of paper nor any nozzle blockage issues. It is the latter that scares me with the as yet unproven new Epsons - is the commonly reported nozzle blockages of the older models to some extent overcome?
These sort of matters do not concern professionals so much as they can off the maintenance contracts and breakdowns in costs to their customers but enthusiasts like me pay ourselves. Nonetheless I am sure Pros do not want breakdowns or issues either.
I think Keith Cooper summed up Epsons new printers with his opinion that he feels Epson may have scored a marketing home-goal in downsizing ink cartridge volumes, providing an inadequately sized maintenance cartridge and over-pricing the P700 inks. Two out of these could be addressed by providing larger ink volumes and reducing prices but the maintenance cartridge size I doubt could be overcome? Perhaps a larger one that sticks out of the front (ugly but practical)?
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As far as my experience with the Pro 1000s in other respects I never had a misfeed of paper nor any nozzle blockage issues. It is the latter that scares me with the as yet unproven new Epsons - is the commonly reported nozzle blockages of the older models to some extent overcome?
These sort of matters do not concern professionals so much as they can off the maintenance contracts and breakdowns in costs to their customers but enthusiasts like me pay ourselves. Nonetheless I am sure Pros do not want breakdowns or issues either.
I think Keith Cooper summed up Epsons new printers with his opinion that he feels Epson may have scored a marketing home-goal in downsizing ink cartridge volumes, providing an inadequately sized maintenance cartridge and over-pricing the P700 inks. Two out of these could be addressed by providing larger ink volumes and reducing prices but the maintenance cartridge size I doubt could be overcome? Perhaps a larger one that sticks out of the front (ugly but practical)?
Ink clogs were pretty much a non-issue on the previous generation of Epson printers so they should have this under control until they change inks or printheads dramatically.
I wouldn't expect much last minute changes based on the initial reception of the new models. The best we can expect is a free maintenance cart and revised prices at some point. I have to agree that the P700 barely makes sense when the smaller ink carts are almost as expensive as the larger ones in the P900.
Cheers,
Fabien
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Why not go straight to a P6000 barely over $2,000.
700 ml ink carts at around .35 a ml compared to $1.50 for the P700 and you can print to 24"
A no brainer.
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The big printers are certainly a better deal, but they aren't necessarily practical for smaller spaces, or if you ever move...
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Why not go straight to a P6000 barely over $2,000.
How does a P6000 or a P7000 or a P7500 handle A3, A3+ and A2 size sheets?
Cost here is 2,025 € for a P5000, 2,232 € for a P6000, 2,427 € for a P7000 and 2,940 for a P7500.
Is it worth waiting for a P5100?
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With our 9900 and P8000 we run a sheet or two maybe once a year. Never had any problem.
We also have a trusty 3880 and P800 that both take sheets very well. I would say 99% of all of our prints are off rolls.
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P5000 is $1395 after rebate right now....
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How does a P6000 or a P7000 or a P7500 handle A3, A3+ and A2 size sheets?
The SC-P7500 handles cut sheets very nicely. There's a slightly larger margin at the trailing edge but the feed is easy.
Jeremy
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One of the singular, great qualities of the 3800/3880/P800 series of printers was/is their solid reliability even when used intermittently. That made them a great choice for the serious amateur (or professional) who wasn't printing every day or every week. Presumably the P900 will continue that reliability tradition, its ink cart size / ink cost woes notwithstanding.
Epson's larger full-on professional models presume a much steadier diet of ink and paper, lest one fall into the hell of constant cleaning cycles. That was never more true than for the much lamented 4000 series, which reportedly made beautiful prints half the time... but then spent the other half of the time puking ink into its maintenance cart.
The reviews I've seen suggest that the P-5000 did little to improve that reliability. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they did.
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One of the singular, great qualities of the 3800/3880/P800 series of printers was/is their solid reliability even when used intermittently. That made them a great choice for the serious amateur (or professional) who wasn't printing every day or every week. Presumably the P900 will continue that reliability tradition, its ink cart size / ink cost woes notwithstanding.
Epson's larger full-on professional models presume a much steadier diet of ink and paper, lest one fall into the hell of constant cleaning cycles. That was never more true than for the much lamented 4000 series, which reportedly made beautiful prints half the time... but then spent the other half of the time puking ink into its maintenance cart.
The reviews I've seen suggest that the P-5000 did little to improve that reliability. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they did.
I am not aware that the P700 or P900 have come with any assurances of a continuation the the policy you refer to above? Canon certainly (at the same price point as the P900) DID NOT adopt this policy and as such the Imageprograf Pro 1000 ate ink like there was no tomorrow. The only way to prevent almost constant cleaning cycles was to print every 24 hours! OK for a commercial shop but not for enthusiast photographers unless they have a prodigious output of prints.
Epson might have seen this opportunity that Canon had to print money and changed their policy? Perhaps someone could get an 'official' reply from Epson that cleaning cycles will not be enforced so regularly and what period can elapse between them? A lack of an answer from any approach would indicate they are following Canon and that would be a disaster.
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I am not aware that the P700 or P900 have come with any assurances of a continuation the the policy you refer to above? Canon certainly (at the same price point as the P900) DID NOT adopt this policy and as such the Imageprograf Pro 1000 ate ink like there was no tomorrow. The only way to prevent almost constant cleaning cycles was to print every 24 hours! OK for a commercial shop but not for enthusiast photographers unless they have a prodigious output of prints.
Epson might have seen this opportunity that Canon had to print money and changed their policy? Perhaps someone could get an 'official' reply from Epson that cleaning cycles will not be enforced so regularly and what period can elapse between them? A lack of an answer from any approach would indicate they are following Canon and that would be a disaster.
One thing I love about my HP B9180 (yes that ancient piece of history) is that if you lower the special tray that feeds the paper from the front, it never goes into any kind of maintenance mode. Early on I realize that the maintenance cycles created more problems than anything else, including clogging up the heads all by themselves, not to mention the waste of inks and gunking up the inside with ink spray. So once I stopped all that by leaving the tray open. Every once in a while I will close the tray and print a few test pages and it's good to go once again. I have left it like that for weeks at a time with never a clog.
I wonder if there is anything like that in any of the Epsons or Canons.
:Niranjan.
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I am not aware that the P700 or P900 have come with any assurances of a continuation the the policy you refer to above? Canon certainly (at the same price point as the P900) DID NOT adopt this policy and as such the Imageprograf Pro 1000 ate ink like there was no tomorrow. The only way to prevent almost constant cleaning cycles was to print every 24 hours! OK for a commercial shop but not for enthusiast photographers unless they have a prodigious output of prints.
Epson might have seen this opportunity that Canon had to print money and changed their policy? Perhaps someone could get an 'official' reply from Epson that cleaning cycles will not be enforced so regularly and what period can elapse between them? A lack of an answer from any approach would indicate they are following Canon and that would be a disaster.
No, of course Epson is not providing any assurances of reliability with respect to the P900, just as they haven't with any of their previous models. Quite the contrary... their marketing folks would have you believe that all their printers are perfectly reliable!
But gather enough anecdotal evidence from enough folks doing serious printing - such as those on this forum right here - and a picture starts to emerge. Based upon that, as well as my own personal experience - I have owned and operated all the P900 predecessors - I am confident in saying that Epson's line of prosumer 17-inch pigment printers have provided yeoman, reliable service for the vast majority of their owners, even when operated intermittently. Absent a major head redesign - something that's possible, of course - I'd be surprised if that tradition of reliability doesn't continue in the P900. But, yes, that's just a guess.
I won't be buying one. But that's because of the ridiculously small ink cart size, not because of reliability concerns.
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One of the singular, great qualities of the 3800/3880/P800 series of printers was/is their solid reliability even when used intermittently. That made them a great choice for the serious amateur (or professional) who wasn't printing every day or every week. Presumably the P900 will continue that reliability tradition, its ink cart size / ink cost woes notwithstanding.
I agree completely and can go many months without even turning the printer on with no clogs or problems. The main issue now is that the 3880 ink has gotten so expensive it finally makes some sense to upgrade printers to the P900 to gain all the new features.
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The P800 and P900 are unique offerings in the sense that all other 17" printers are much heavier and bulkier. The nearest alternative would be a Canon PRO-1000 (32 kg) compared to the P900 (16 kg). The smaller cartridges play an important role in the downsizing of the printer. These products are not meant for high volume printing.
According to the Epson UK rep in this video (https://youtu.be/NKRjDsheb5s?t=787), the P900 is shipped with a set of full 50 ml initial cartridges. If true, that alone would cover the cost of the upgrade from a P700.
Cheers,
Fabien
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FabienP,
The Canon Imageprograf Pro 1000 is not designed for bulk printing either! Mine lasted less than 2 years with like enthusiast printing. In fact it was asking for more ink from 6 cartridges after only 30 A3s and 6 A4 prints? While something heavy might seem better and something light less worthwhile that is not necessarily important. After complaining to Canon that my so-called Pro printer had failed with an in-built design issue I was met with a roaring silence? However the design fault proved to be well documented on the Canon USA community forum.
A Pro product needs more than weight it needs company backing when it fails early and replacement.
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According to the Epson UK rep in this video (https://youtu.be/NKRjDsheb5s?t=787), the P900 is shipped with a set of full 50 ml initial cartridges. If true, that alone would cover the cost of the upgrade from a P700
This might be true for the UK market (however Keith Cooper in his review of the P700 indicated that the carts that were supplied with his model was barely enough to do do the initial fill). On the B&H site, it clearly states "starter cartridges" whatever that means, we'll not know until it ships.
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That's highly likely in my view. Almost guaranteed. I'll be shocked if it doesn't. Epson have a hidden increase in the price of these printers, compared to their predecessors, in that you need to buy a new set of cartridges with the printer. That's no small thing.
According to the Epson website, the P900 comes with a set of full ink carts, not the starter set.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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Yes, but what concerns P800 users is that the P900 ink carts are 50ML where as the P800 carts are 80 ML. You have to be concerned that the smaller carts ($42 each) will need more frequent replacement than the 80ML ($58) carts in the P800. We don't know how much that will hurt the wallet over time.
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Yes, but what concerns P800 users is that the P900 ink carts are 50ML where as the P800 carts are 80 ML. You have to be concerned that the smaller carts ($42 each) will need more frequent replacement than the 80ML ($58) carts in the P800. We don't know how much that will hurt the wallet over time.
I have a z3100 with 130ml tanks. It has 12 types of ink.
Only yesterday one ink ran out during printing at the end of a 120cm print making the print worthless.
What i am trying to say: the more ink colours, the more a chance on runs out of one ink; So better have large ink tanks with a printer that has many ink colours.
50ml seems very small to me. Also the HPZ3100 uses all ink till the last drop. Many small printers don't and work on average use, so they are wasting ink and turning 50ml into say 45 ml.
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According to the Epson website, the P900 comes with a set of full ink carts, not the starter set.
Regards,
Bud James
Not sure about this... under "What's in the box", Epson says "Initial Ink Cartridges"
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I have a z3100 with 130ml tanks. It has 12 types of ink.
Only yesterday one ink ran out during printing at the end of a 120cm print making the print worthless.
What i am trying to say: the more ink colours, the more a chance on runs out of one ink; So better have large ink tanks with a printer that has many ink colours.
50ml seems very small to me. Also the HPZ3100 uses all ink till the last drop. Many small printers don't and work on average use, so they are wasting ink and turning 50ml into say 45 ml.
I owned and know more about smaller 13"-17" Epson printers and with those I can definitely pause the print, replace the empty cartridge and resume the process with zero effect on the final result. No matter what the cartridge capacity.
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I have a z3100 with 130ml tanks. It has 12 types of ink.
Only yesterday one ink ran out during printing at the end of a 120cm print making the print worthless.
What i am trying to say: the more ink colours, the more a chance on runs out of one ink; So better have large ink tanks with a printer that has many ink colours.
50ml seems very small to me. Also the HPZ3100 uses all ink till the last drop. Many small printers don't and work on average use, so they are wasting ink and turning 50ml into say 45 ml.
All the Epson's give you a low ink warning (Time to order more)and then will keep printing until you get the X. Doesn't matter where you are in the print cycle. Put in your new cart and the printer picks right up where it left off with no sign of interruption.
Epson has more than a few good things going for them.
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I owned and know more about smaller 13"-17" Epson printers and with those I can definitely pause the print, replace the empty cartridge and resume the process with zero effect on the final result. No matter what the cartridge capacity.
All the Epson's give you a low ink warning (Time to order more)and then will keep printing until you get the X. Doesn't matter where you are in the print cycle. Put in your new cart and the printer picks right up where it left off with no sign of interruption.
Epson has more than a few good things going for them.
Good to know, and very important.
The Hpz3100 has a GE-ink ( Gloss enhancer) that is the spoiler. The GE mixes into the printed color. You see the interruption
Probably there is no problem without using the GE-Ink, but i ususally print on glossy papers with GE.
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Looked at potential suppliers online in UK and seems the late October date has slipped for the Epson P900. First one I looked at quoted 31st December 2020! In other words not until 2021! This suggest issues and not necessarily those relating to Covid-19 delays? Is Epson going in for a redesign or is the ink not ready? Get a gut feeling something is going on?
Canon must be laughing all the way to the bank on this one? Does not seem to be a shortage there due to Covid-19 (which adds weight to my suspicions about the P900)? Even then I would not advise anyone to buy an Imageprograf Pro 1000 over the Epson, even if reduced!
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The P900 is in stock in Tokyo.
Cheers,
Bernard
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That's good to hear but it's still a long boat ride from there to here. :o
The question remains of which will first arrive here in the U.S.: the election, Christmas or the P900.
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The P 900 will arrive when the COVID 19 vaccine is released. I hear rumors that in addition to the inks that are included with the printer, there are two vials of the COVID Sputnik V vaccine included.
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The P 900 will arrive when the COVID 19 vaccine is released. I hear rumors that in addition to the inks that are included with the printer, there are two vials of the COVID Sputnik V vaccine included.
Lol
Cheers,
Bernard
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The P 900 will arrive when the COVID 19 vaccine is released. I hear rumors that in addition to the inks that are included with the printer, there are two vials of the COVID Sputnik V vaccine included.
Unfortunately, each vial is only half-filled... these are starter vaccines
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Got a call from Samy’s LA yesterday and picked up my P900, did not have one on order there but my contact knew i wanted one....
To get the first thing out of the way: the included ink will not last long, I have a full set here so i will be fine....the US version does come with an extra tank...
Printer is nice and compact, seems much better thought out then all others before, nice details that make sense,...a light on the inside, the LCD screen is really, really nice, actually useable....set up is easiest i have seen and i have had them all....
I am trying to use this exclusively from ipad for right now, this is the first iOS driver that uses profiles, a full driver......so far that works extremely well as long as one uses epson paper, otherwise it might be useless....i have to dig deeper, haven’t had much time....
There are no pizza wheels so far, i have tried most of the epson sample packs, heavier papers feed fine in the back...
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"extra tank"?
Look forward to reading your posts about this printer.
Richard Southworth
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"extra tank"?
Look forward to reading your posts about this printer.
Richard Southworth
In Europe they give you 4 extra inktanks ;)
I guess they are used...
Maybe the P900 has AI and knows exactly when to put the ink on the paper or save the paper and put the ink in the tank...
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Sorry, I still don't understand what you mean by "ink tank". Is this an extra cartridge of one color, or are you referring to the maintenance cartridge?
Richard Southworth
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Sorry, extra maintenance tank
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Even then I would not advise anyone to buy an Imageprograf Pro 1000 over the Epson, even if reduced!
Just curious why not? I downgraded from a Z3200 and am in the market for a smaller printer and the Pro 1000 is one being considered along with the P900.
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Unique Photo in NJ not only says they have them in stock (5:38pm EST Friday 5 November), but I picked one up at 10am today (I live in Montclair NJ). Anybody need an Epson SC-P800 in the NYC area?
The starter set is the worst ever. I haven't printed anything and it's at 1/3 or less supply levels. I ordered a set at BH (since nobody else has the sets) but it will be Sunday before I can get them.
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@maxs
I have a scrapped Imageprograf Pro 1000 in my office now. It lasted barely 2 years with a jammed ink cartridge (a known design fault reported in American Canon community forums). I have sold on nearly £1000 (£s not $s) worth of ink I had in a cupboard. It drank ink and regularly filled the maintenance cartridge. It printed beautiful prints but is seriously flawed. A fix for a jammed ink cartridge cots more than a new printer - it requires a back to base engineer strip down to correct. Yes I probably could have ripped the jammed cartridge out as many in the community forum have done but there are many other reported problems. Please read all the forums you can before deciding. I bitterly regret buying it. It needs a usage or a nozzle check every 60 hours or it will carry out a full head clean and dump huge amounts of expensive ink. Anyone printing very regularly may not suffer so.
Canons customer service were terrible and this is another reason not to buy Canon. My scrapped printer looks like new and has probably produced only 50 A3 prints and less A4 prints so these were very expensive as I probably also changed all cartridges twice in that 2 years (£1200 worth of ink). I had to invest in a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) since powering off triggers a head clean the next time you switch it on. Despite Canon marketing this printer as suitable for enthusiasts as well as professionals it really only suits those with a high throughput.
However its thirst for ink and an ink cartridge jamming issue these are only two problems. Read the forums for others reported.
Another reason to buy Epson might be the healthy 3rd party refillable and CIS (continuous ink supply) systems that were available though not for P900 yet.
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@maxs
I have a scrapped Imageprograf Pro 1000 in my office now. It lasted barely 2 years with a jammed ink cartridge (a known design fault reported in American Canon community forums). I have sold on nearly £1000 (£s not $s) worth of ink I had in a cupboard. It drank ink and regularly filled the maintenance cartridge. It printed beautiful prints but is seriously flawed. A fix for a jammed ink cartridge cots more than a new printer - it requires a back to base engineer strip down to correct. Yes I probably could have ripped the jammed cartridge out as many in the community forum have done but there are many other reported problems. Please read all the forums you can before deciding. I bitterly regret buying it. It needs a usage or a nozzle check every 60 hours or it will carry out a full head clean and dump huge amounts of expensive ink. Anyone printing very regularly may not suffer so.
Canons customer service were terrible and this is another reason not to buy Canon. My scrapped printer looks like new and has probably produced only 50 A3 prints and less A4 prints so these were very expensive as I probably also changed all cartridges twice in that 2 years (£1200 worth of ink). I had to invest in a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) since powering off triggers a head clean the next time you switch it on. Despite Canon marketing this printer as suitable for enthusiasts as well as professionals it really only suits those with a high throughput.
However its thirst for ink and an ink cartridge jamming issue these are only two problems. Read the forums for others reported.
Another reason to buy Epson might be the healthy 3rd party refillable and CIS (continuous ink supply) systems that were available though not for P900 yet.
Like @maxs, I am also in the market for an A2 printer. I am currently looking at the Canon Pro-1000, Epson P900 and Epson P5000 STD.
Canon is the cheapest, but it has a few problems like the ones you've mentioned. I did not like the fact that it cannot print borderless for custom paper sizes. Panos are limited to 1.20 meters max. And there was one dire warning of the printer flushing all of the ink when the printer is moved while it is switched on. And the horrible 60 hour cleaning cycle, which is happening even when one has printed extensively during that period.
P5000 has the built-in roll paper and the paper cutter as well as being more dust resistant. Also, the handling of the roll paper is automatic. But it is huge and the most expensive of these three.
P900 has one huge flaw, it is nowhere in stock. Also, it seems to have a flimsy build quality from what I have seen on youtube videos. It is pricewise halfway between the other two when one also buys the roll paper unit. And the dreaded 50 ml cartridges. Lastly, I haven't heard anything about the paper handling and skewing problems as of yet. I don't know what the reality will be like when the printer is generally available.
So considering these pros and cons, I am undecided what would be the best choice for me. I am an amateur photographer who wants to print his own pictures but not in huge volumes. Another option is to use labs for any prints but I haven't been able to find one which I really like (paper surface, structure, quality, color management). In the past I have had the Epson 3800 and it was a great printer until the print head has clogged eventually and would not be un-clogged no matter what I've tried.
Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.
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Like @maxs, I am also in the market for an A2 printer. I am currently looking at the Canon Pro-1000, Epson P900 and Epson P5000 STD.
Canon is the cheapest, but it has a few problems like the ones you've mentioned. I did not like the fact that it cannot print borderless for custom paper sizes. Panos are limited to 1.20 meters max. And there was one dire warning of the printer flushing all of the ink when the printer is moved while it is switched on. And the horrible 60 hour cleaning cycle, which is happening even when one has printed extensively during that period.
P5000 has the built-in roll paper and the paper cutter as well as being more dust resistant. Also, the handling of the roll paper is automatic. But it is huge and the most expensive of these three.
P900 has one huge flaw, it is nowhere in stock. Also, it seems to have a flimsy build quality from what I have seen on youtube videos. It is pricewise halfway between the other two when one also buys the roll paper unit. And the dreaded 50 ml cartridges. Lastly, I haven't heard anything about the paper handling and skewing problems as of yet. I don't know what the reality will be like when the printer is generally available.
So considering these pros and cons, I am undecided what would be the best choice for me. I am an amateur photographer who wants to print his own pictures but not in huge volumes. Another option is to use labs for any prints but I haven't been able to find one which I really like (paper surface, structure, quality, color management). In the past I have had the Epson 3800 and it was a great printer until the print head has clogged eventually and would not be un-clogged no matter what I've tried.
Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.
Epson SC-P800?
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I believe the Epson P800 is very much in short supply also.
There seems to only be the Epson P900 in this arena {if you discount the Imageprograf 1000 for given reasons) with a few others at higher price points.
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I believe the Epson P800 is very much in short supply also.
There seems to only be the Epson P900 in this arena {if you discount the Imageprograf 1000 for given reasons) with a few others at higher price points.
Correct. No one has any P800 in stock either.
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Near NYC? Well, I have a P800 for you.
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Near NYC? Well, I have a P800 for you.
I sold my P800 to help finance my purchase of the P900.
Now that I have been using the P900 for a few weeks, I really love the dual black ink set up so that I don't have to waste ink to switch from photo black to matte black. Now I can print matte papers at will instead of batching them up. Love it!
Print quality with the P800 is awesome, but the P900 improves it to a new level, especially with glossy stock.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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Near NYC? Well, I have a P800 for you.
Thanks but I am on the other side of the pond ;)
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I sold my P800 to help finance my purchase of the P900.
Now that I have been using the P900 for a few weeks, I really love the dual black ink set up so that I don't have to waste ink to switch from photo black to matte black. Now I can print matte papers at will instead of batching them up. Love it!
Print quality with the P800 is awesome, but the P900 improves it to a new level, especially with glossy stock.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
Any paper recommendations?
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This morning one of the retailers had 4 P900s in stock. I have immediately ordered one. Let's see if it will arrive tomorrow as promised.
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It turned out that Unique Photo also has the inks, they are just hard to find on the Web site. I cancelled my order at B&H and got them there.
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We just got a P900 in and we checked the starter cartridges against the actual 50 ml cartridges (T46Y...). The weight of the two cartridges is identical, so, the starter cartridges seem to be 50 ml just like the replacement cartridges. The cartridges are effectively the same physical size as 80 ml P800 cartridges, too (so why can't they be made with more ink in them?).
Tony
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We just got a P900 in and we checked the starter cartridges against the actual 50 ml cartridges (T46Y...). The weight of the two cartridges is identical, so, the starter cartridges seem to be 50 ml just like the replacement cartridges. The cartridges are effectively the same physical size as 80 ml P800 cartridges, too (so why can't they be made with more ink in them?).
Tony
Either Epson has determined that part of the cause for clogging issues is low printer usage can cause more clogs. So we will introduce smaller size carts requiring change out more often.
Or
It is strictly marketing trying to up the profits with a smaller package contents at a higher price.
Or both.
Knock on wood the way my old 3880 and P800 run all Epson had to do was make the new printer the same. These two printers have been the shining stars of all the Epson's we own.
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Any paper recommendations?
I use Epson fine art papers: Legacy Plantine, Exhibition Fiber, Premium Luster and Bayrata. I also use Carson Bayrata II.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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We just got a P900 in and we checked the starter cartridges against the actual 50 ml cartridges (T46Y...). The weight of the two cartridges is identical, so, the starter cartridges seem to be 50 ml just like the replacement cartridges. The cartridges are effectively the same physical size as 80 ml P800 cartridges, too (so why can't they be made with more ink in them?).
Tony
I got my P900 and I can confirm the same.
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I use Epson fine art papers: Legacy Plantine, Exhibition Fiber, Premium Luster and Bayrata. I also use Carson Bayrata II.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
Thanks!
I have ended up ordering Canson Rag Photographique (310g) for mat printing and Canson Platine Fibre Rag (310g) for semi gloss.
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Thanks!
I have ended up ordering Canson Rag Photographique (310g) for mat printing and Canson Platine Fibre Rag (310g) for semi gloss.
Yes, they are good choices too.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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We just got a P900 in and we checked the starter cartridges against the actual 50 ml cartridges (T46Y...). The weight of the two cartridges is identical, so, the starter cartridges seem to be 50 ml just like the replacement cartridges.
This is fascinating! This suggests that the carts are labelled as "starter" just to warn you that there won't be much ink left after the lines are charged.
My recollection is that the 3880, the last printer in this line to come without starter carts, used up a decent amount of its 80ml carts in charging the lines, but I can't recall how much. If the P900 has less than 10% left, that suggests that the 3880 would have been at around half or less left. Is that right?
As the carts get smaller, they get closer to the amount used for charging the lines, which is the minimum size. Which has me wondering about how the R3000 and P600 managed to charge their lines without exhausting their smaller carts. Perhaps the amount of ink used for charging has increased in newer models?
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After my P900 charged the ink lines, my starter ink cartridges showed only 50% capacity left.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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This is fascinating! This suggests that the carts are labelled as "starter" just to warn you that there won't be much ink left after the lines are charged.
My recollection is that the 3880, the last printer in this line to come without starter carts, used up a decent amount of its 80ml carts in charging the lines, but I can't recall how much. If the P900 has less than 10% left, that suggests that the 3880 would have been at around half or less left. Is that right?
As the carts get smaller, they get closer to the amount used for charging the lines, which is the minimum size. Which has me wondering about how the R3000 and P600 managed to charge their lines without exhausting their smaller carts. Perhaps the amount of ink used for charging has increased in newer models?
I think starter carts also have a special code that tells the printer to charge the lines.
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Can someone please post the weight, preferably in grams, of a full P900 cart? Ideally non-starter, but it sounds like that doesn't matter.
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Can someone please post the weight, preferably in grams, of a full P900 cart? Ideally non-starter, but it sounds like that doesn't matter.
121.5 grams
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Thanks Cem. I guess it would also be useful to know the weight of an empty P900 cart. Can someone with an empty oblige?
My thinking was that if the P900 carts really are the same as the P800 / 38xo ones, then we could impute the usable ink by weight. I think that the 3880 carts were around 142.7 gms full and 76.2 empty, a difference of 66.5gms. We don't know the SG of the ink, but it's unlikely to be less that 1. The accusations of too much ink left in these carts is well known.
If the P900 carts empty weigh the same as the 3880, a big if, then that's 45.3gms of usable ink by weight. That's a much smaller gap to the nominal volume of 50 mls than for the 3880. (Yes, I'm assuming an SG of 1 but it's the relative difference between P900 and 3880 that I'm really interested in.)
It would be useful to get an empty P900 cart measurement to verify or vary this estimate.
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Thanks Cem. I guess it would also be useful to know the weight of an empty P900 cart. Can someone with an empty oblige?
My thinking was that if the P900 carts really are the same as the P800 / 38xo ones, then we could impute the usable ink by weight. I think that the 3880 carts were around 142.7 gms full and 76.2 empty, a difference of 66.5gms. We don't know the SG of the ink, but it's unlikely to be less that 1. The accusations of too much ink left in these carts is well known.
If the P900 carts empty weigh the same as the 3880, a big if, then that's 45.3gms of usable ink by weight. That's a much smaller gap to the nominal volume of 50 mls than for the 3880. (Yes, I'm assuming an SG of 1 but it's the relative difference between P900 and 3880 that I'm really interested in.)
It would be useful to get an empty P900 cart measurement to verify or vary this estimate.
I'll weigh the cartridges again when they are empty. May take a few more days. I am in the process of making trial prints and profiling prints right now.
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I've found myself really disappointed with the P900, mostly around paper-feed issues.
Big Negatives I've found:
- 13x19 Matte Paper won't reliably feed from the top paper feed. Just refuses to grab.
- Loading nice thick paper, like Epson's cold press bright through the front-loading mechanism takes 1 min 40 seconds (I timed it) with constant supervision. You can't just set it and leave, you have to wait for the slow-slow screen to come back for the next step.
- The new screen is nice, but really slow compared to older models.
- The error chime is not as loud as on the P800 (I turned it up to max) — this matters in our busy/loud environment.
Things I like:
- I have noticed what feels like slightly better color than a P800 for the same prints, especially in darker tones.
- The display showing the time-to-print is really nice (though doesn't seem terribly reliable.
But the paper feed issues are really troubling; nothing really likes to feed 13x19 paper — the P800 is prone to skew — but not grabbing it at all is almost unusable for me.
I've got just one of the P900s, but 4 P800s, a P5000, a 3880 and a 7900 — the P900, fresh out of box, has already been the most trouble.
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Pat,
You should check out Mark Segal's excellent and thorough review over on photopxl:
https://photopxl.com/the-new-epson-sc-p900-printer-review/ (https://photopxl.com/the-new-epson-sc-p900-printer-review/)
If you scroll down many pages, he clarifies a number of issues about paper handling for which the Epson manual has no useful information.
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Read that just now — his experience is the reverse of mine. Ha.
From the review, "My experience indicates it is very reliable." (top loader for less than .5mm)
I can't get it to reliably take paper at all that way, and the front feed, while it works fine, is 4x as as slow as the P800 was at "getting ready." I should probably make a video of how bad this feed mechanism is for me. Maybe after the holiday crunch.
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Still not buying all the fuss about the 900. The ink switch, not a big deal. New ink set same thing. Maybe for the at home printer it makes sense. Just too small with very expensive ink.
The great buy is a P6000 at slightly over $2000. You can buy 700 ml carts which are about as cheap as you can buy oem inks.
Gives you 24" printing capacity plus sheets and rolls are a snap to load. I think I may get one if I can find someone to take this oh so slow Z3200 off my hands.
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Took a video today of the mechanism just not grabbing a single sheet.
https://youtu.be/JraIPtUWjhw?t=37
It works if you apply a little pressure on the sheet as it's trying to grab, but that's not useable for our production environment. I'm really disappointed in it, that and the general slowness of the interface makes me sad.
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I'm looking for something like the P5000 but with better full-bleed capabilities; the P7000 is still single-sheet feed, and that's a non-starter for us. We can use the P800 with a 5-10 sheets in the top feeder and that's great.
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Man this is disappointing. One of the reasons I was wanting to buy a desktop machine was to speed up my sheet fed printing vs my P10000 ...maybe not so much.
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Is Epson going to fix the sheet feed problem? Or have they calculated 5% of returns is not worth the redesign costs. Not sure if I should wait for a reliable P900 rebake or buy a Canon instead. The last time I bought the 3800, a month later they came out with the 3880 which fixed their magenta issues. Makes me suspect a P980 is currently in the works.
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Is Epson going to fix the sheet feed problem? Or have they calculated 5% of returns is not worth the redesign costs. Not sure if I should wait for a reliable P900 rebake or buy a Canon instead. The last time I bought the 3800, a month later they came out with the 3880 which fixed their magenta issues. Makes me suspect a P980 is currently in the works.
You are clearly an optimist? I suspect Epson are not bothered unless enough potential Epson buyers switch to Canon but the Canons are not without flaws especially the Imageprograf Pro 1000 which was very nearly a legendary A2 printer. Apart from the Epson P900 paper grab issues it seems not very robust and the ink cartridges are only 50ml yet appear to have far greater capacity?
I suspect Canon will bring out a replacement for the Imageprograf 1000 before Epson do anything useful. Neither company or their representatives seem to engage with forums (outside of their control) and openly discuss improvements or issues. I was actually banned from the Canon USA forum (superior in some ways to any EU/UK Canon forum) as I live in the UK but in actual fact Canon did not like what I was posting.
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Do all P900 copies have this paper feed problem or just a few? Is it a design flaw or a quality control issue? If it is a quality control issue, I might take the risk and buy one because I can always test it out before keeping.
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Hi Richard,
I hope I am wrong on this, but mention was made earlier in this thread that capacity of ink cartridges was 30% lower and price the same.
If some of that was an assumption that turns out to be inaccurate I'll gladly withdraw my comments. :)
Cheers,
Bernard
I believe Bernard is right - as he often is. I too have read of a 30+% price differential over the now older P-800, which resonated with me as I own one and am very sensitive to ink prices.
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Epson's greed regarding ink cartridge volume and price of the P900 (especially compared to those of the P800) can only be answered by not buying it!
If you can bear the drop in size from A2 to A3 the new Canon Imageprograf 300 is testing as the better printer anyway. Superior for monochrome despite Epson's 'carbon black' so sure to be popular with those (like me) that see monochrome as king. Certainly (from reports) paper handling is superior and build quality also.
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Ink prices:
Canon Pro-300 PFI-300 ink, 14.4 ml per cartridge, $12.99 list, 90 cents per ml
Epson P900 T46Y ink, 50 ml per cartridge, $41.99 list, 84 cents per ml
Epson P800 T850 ink, 80 ml per cartridge, $63.00 list, 79 cents per ml
Tony
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I think that the 3880 carts were around 142.7 gms full and 76.2 empty, a difference of 66.5gms.
Over the years I've owned a 3800 I've weighed carts on installation and when empty.
Full weight has varied between 145gm to 148gms
Empty has varied more from 68gms - 78gms with an average of 73gms
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FWIW, the P900 is manufactured in Indonesia. Covid 19 is very widespread in that country now. May be awhile :'( . Also, prolly not important but, the P900 has a cooling fan inside the printer. Not sure yet If this fan could cause dust etc. to get on paper as printing is taking place. ???
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Over the years I've owned a 3800 I've weighed carts on installation and when empty.
Full weight has varied between 145gm to 148gms
Empty has varied more from 68gms - 78gms with an average of 73gms
I'm waiting for someone to do this for the P900. I haven't measured my 3880 ink carts as systematically as Rhossydd, but my general impression has been that the weight has dropped by less than 70gms from full to empty. The whole "we're getting ripped off by Epson because it leaves so much unused ink in the 3880 cart" debate is well-known. I've read a suggestion somewhere, perhaps on Lula, that the P900 is better in this regard. I'd really like to see the before and after numbers to get some sense of this. Ripping open some supposedly empty carts would also be interesting.
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The whole "we're getting ripped off by Epson because it leaves so much unused ink in the 3880 cart" debate is well-known.
Shouted about without much thought.
If the printer is to remain working the print head and lines have to remain full of liquid ink, if they dry out...dead printer. It's hardly a surprise that manufacturers tend to be conservative about when to change the carts if getting that wrong would kill the printers prematurely.
Trying to squeeze more ink out of a cart might be possible, but it would require other compromises with different overall designs that might be unacceptably bulky or other cost additions that end users would find unacceptable.
The quality of results and generally great reliability of the 38xx series printers has shown them to have been really good buys in the long term.
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I agree with what you said, but even so it begs the question of where is the fine line between cautious conservatism and rip-off?
As I said, my intention in raising this was not to invite yet another round of such debates. I was just raising the question about whether Epson had moved that fine line in the P900? Some full and empty weights would be useful to understand this.
If the printer is to remain working the print head and lines have to remain full of liquid ink, if they dry out...dead printer. It's hardly a surprise that manufacturers tend to be conservative about when to change the carts if getting that wrong would kill the printers prematurely.
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Epson printers report the ink remaining by estimating the cartridge content through monitoring what is printed, right? There is no direct measure of cartridge contents, like the float gauge that measures the level in an automobile fuel tank. If somehow Epson allowed users to print 'all the way' until the cartridge was really empty, or closer to empty than at present, the established inaccuracy of the measuring system would pretty much guarantee numerous occurrences of total ink channel failure, probably bricking of the printer, and lead to many very unhappy customers. Of course, Epson could engineer an actual ink level measuring/reporting system, but I suspect the printers would go way up in price and complexity.
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No-one is arguing with any of this, least of all me. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that people should be able to print until the cart is actually empty. That's a recipe for air in the ink lines and a lot of pain. The unanswerable question is how much safety margin is really needed? Would you say he same if they left 25% of the ink in the cart? 50%? People's concern has been that the safety margin seems rather high in the 3880, and I assume the P800. The claimed capacity is 80ml, but the usable capacity is significantly less. I think the usable capacity is what should be stated as the cart capacity.
As I said, I'm not looking to redebate all this all over again. I'm only asking whether or not the safety margin in the P900 is similar. To make an educate guess at that we need full and empty weights, or someone to cut open empty carts and measure. The claimed capacity of the carts is only 50ml, and if the safety margin is the same number of mls, then that's a bigger percentage hit to the effective ink cost.
Epson printers report the ink remaining by estimating the cartridge content through monitoring what is printed, right? There is no direct measure of cartridge contents, like the float gauge that measures the level in an automobile fuel tank. If somehow Epson allowed users to print 'all the way' until the cartridge was really empty, or closer to empty than at present, the established inaccuracy of the measuring system would pretty much guarantee numerous occurrences of total ink channel failure, probably bricking of the printer, and lead to many very unhappy customers. Of course, Epson could engineer an actual ink level measuring/reporting system, but I suspect the printers would go way up in price and complexity.
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I'm only asking whether or not the safety margin in the P900 is similar. To make an educate guess at that we need full and empty weights, or someone to cut open empty carts and measure.
A few answers, or at least pointers to them, can be found in Keith’s review at http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-sc-p900-printer-review/
Regarding changing empty carts he said “this cart (replaced as late as it allowed) had but a few drops of ink left in it.” "A few drops" is rather too vague for our concerns here, it's rather a shame if he didn’t weigh them as he did for the maintenance cart.
“There will then be warnings that there may not be enough ink to finish a print. Initially you can ignore these, unless you’re making a big print…Finally, an error will be thrown up and you have to change ink to proceed. If this occurs during a print, you will lose the print…“
This was an interesting comment as the 38xx series printers could have the cart changed mid-print without a problem. Maybe that’s changed or maybe Keith didn’t test that fully.
Unfortunately I don't think user's opinions make a huge difference to how Epson specify their printers (with the possible exception of the, now very old, problem of dye inks fading). The P900 looks a like a good replacement for the 38xx/P800 series in most respects, it's just a shame that they've opted for a more expensive and worse for the environment ink cart regime.
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Eric,
With all due respect, I am not sure I agree with that statement.
A printer is basically given away for a cheap amount because the money over it's life span is in the inks.
It seems legitimate to compare and take notice where there is a 30% price hike from generation to generation.
Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard was right - I've found the report relating to ink cost differentials of the new P900 vs P800. Was off an English website (- possibly 'Northlight' or 'Northbridge'..??) that has done many thorough, unbiased full analyses/tests of printers and was the basis of my earlier P3880 purchase.
The variation is huge, and over time, might actually obviate the advantage of having separate dedicated channels for black inks. An accident? Hardly I feel, as engineers follow design briefs. It makes me wonder which cynical Epson Marketing Person conceived of this nasty sleight of hand?
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The argument that these printers are being sold 'cheap' and the profit is made on the inks doesn't really add here.
Credible when a colour laser printer is sold for £150 with half filled toner carts, then a set of full carts is £180. When this printer is sold for £1000 with full ink carts, that argument falls apart. Yes, they will be making a profit on ink carts, but I can't see the decision to choose 50ml carts rather 80ml being just about profit from ink sales.
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I fully respect this may not be of any import to some people, but it clearly is to a significant group of people judging by the thought and research and concern that has been expressed here.
That the accumulated benefits of marginal economics has been formally codified means a handbook exists for those intrepid or mercenary enough to implement it commercially and its' expressions are all around us.
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Reviewers have indicated plenty of 'spare' capacity in the 50ml ink cartridges of the P900 and the fact that Epson made a clear decision to downsize from the 80ml of the predecessor of the P900 (the P800) either indicate a technical difficulty in implementing the 80ml (or larger) or a clear commercial (economic) decision that a greater profit might be made via inks.
In the now clear light of the P700 almost emptying its cartridges on initialisation and the P900 using a large volume of the diminished capacity supplied indicates either an insurmountable technical issue (highly unlikely) in supplying larger cartridges or a very strong profit (greed?) driven motive.
A printer that promised so much and replaced what was (with hindsight) a superior printer (the P800) in build and economy. An opportunity missed?
I should also add that reviews of the A3+ sized Canon Imageprograf 300 (also pigment ink) are telling us that the black is superior to that of the Epson P700/P900!!! Just the (major) drawback that the Canon has tiny cartridge capacity of 14ml. I do not know why Canon other than profiteering through ink has hampered what would have made a superior and class leading printer? Perhaps an Imageprograf Pro 500 A2 on the way to replace that so flawed Pro 1000?
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I've read a number of posts in this thread dissing the Canon Pro 1000 that based on my personal experience I would (politely) refute.
I bought a Pro 1000 3 years ago and set it up here in my RV. It's kind of big for the RV and an awkward setup so I haven't used it since I set it up and moved it into a cabin I've been working on.
This Monday, I finally decided to do some prints with it as I had promised a print to a friend. I downloaded the current firmware and ALL of the updates to the driver, Print Studio Pro, etc. and installed them on my PC (I originally had the Pro 1000 connected to my Mac system). I ran a nozzle check and the page printed with nary an issue, incredibly. I then printed a 13" x 19" trial run of the image I'd promised to my friend and it came out perfect. This morning I printed a 17" x 25" version of the same image and again it came out perfect.
Maybe it's just me or it was just luck, but I wouldn't consider any other printer for my needs.
ANY product can have a lemon - I owned a Mazda B4000 pickup and loved it, but at 36,000 miles the transmission blew and I swore I'd never buy a Ford product again - and I haven't . . .
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I've read a number of posts in this thread dissing the Canon Pro 1000 that based on my personal experience I would (politely) refute.
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Maybe it's just me or it was just luck, but I wouldn't consider any other printer for my needs.
ANY product can have a lemon - I owned a Mazda B4000 pickup and loved it, but at 36,000 miles the transmission blew and I swore I'd never buy a Ford product again - and I haven't . . .
You are correct, its just luck.
However there are a number of key issues here. When you restarted your printer it would have triggered a head clean (a FACT unless Canon have changed this in newer firmware?). This would have dumped a load of ink (possibly more than you actually used on your two prints!). In around 60 hours it will repeat this if powered up. If not powered up it will do teh same next time you power it.
You will soon feel the amount of ink used and this can be proved by how much your maintenance cartridge weighs full versus empty - try weighing it.
That was one criticism.
The second criticism involves usage also but cartridge replacement. At some point a cartridge may not eject and unless you are prepared (as some are) to rip that cartridge out forcibly with subsequent damage then your printer is a right-off and on its way to printer heaven - the dump.
Given your extremely light and sporadic use you have been lucky - so far!
Makes great prints though and the vacuum feed is sublime
If anyone wants a Pro 1000 only two years old with light use and is in UK, I have one at £100 for spares and repair only.
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Hey, just subscribed again after a decade away. Haven't been here since my Rebel XT days.
Now I am shooting GFX 50s and wondering how far down the printer rabbit hole I want to get. I have P900 budget, and need to start taking my images all the way across the finish line into prints. (Havent printed in a decade either).
The majority of my catalog is 24-26mp from the smaller Fuji bodies, but my work with my H2 (40mp) and 50s is much better, so I'm not too worried about printing the old stuff.
Last wrench in my plan is the ol "by once cry once" methodology. Sure I can grab a P900 now, but how many reviews will I read about the P7570 will I read, and keep wondering:
- what can I do with 4" more
- what can I do with that added green and orange
- what can I do with roll vs sheets
I'm kinda tempted to get the big one and get off the upgrade train. But. I seriously have not made a print in 10 years. Might need to start with some training wheels.
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I would read this post if you're considering an Epson 7570:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=142536.0
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- what can I do with roll vs sheets
You can get a roll feeder (without a cutter) for the p900, for extra $$.
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I would read this post if you're considering an Epson 7570:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=142536.0
Yikes! Thank you.
Looks like P900 or just go Canon. Def not a printer to start learning on.
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I am not a fan of the P900 at all. It is primarily a cheap mostly plastic printer. Small ink carts cost $1.00 a ml which is insane. The best buy in small wide format right now is the new 17" 5370. Built like a tank with roll feed and cutter for a few dollars over 2 grand. The inks are 200 ml for around $96 or .48 a ml, less than half of the P900 baby carts.
I am getting one to just fool around with, it is that impressive.
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I am not a fan of the P900 at all. It is primarily a chip mostly plastic printer. Small ink carts must $1.00 a ml which is insane. The best buy in small wide format right now is the new 17" 5370. Built like a tank with roll feed and cutter for a few dollars over 2 grand. The monks are 200 ml for around $96 or .48 a ml less than half of the P900 baby carts.
I am getting one to just fool around with, it is that impressive.
I am interested in the 5370 for my landscape photography as my old Epson 7800 nears the end of its life. Please keep us informed about your results with your new purchase !
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The best buy in small wide format right now is the new 17" 5370. Built like a tank with roll feed and cutter for a few dollars over 2 grand. The inks are 200 ml for around $96 or .48 a ml, less than half of the P900 baby carts.
In terms of best value, going by B&H prices as of a moment ago, IMO a decent case can be made for the new Canon Pro-2600 24" printer at $2853. Many Epson prices for a given 'slot' of printer seem to have gone way up--the 24" Epson P7570 is $4245--and HP isn't cheap with a 24" Z9+ being $3195. So in terms of the printer itself, would you rather have a 17" P5370 for $2095 or a 24" Pro-2600 for $2853?
On the ink side, yes, the P5370 ink at $0.48/ml is a good deal. FWIW, the ink for the Pro-2600 costs between $0.45 and $0.66/ml, depending on whether you buy a 700 ml, 330 ml, or 160 cartridge.
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Agree Epson has raised prices on just about everything. I almost purchased a P6000 24" but decided that an extra 17" machine for our smaller portfolio work would make more sense.
5370 is on back order everywhere. Looks like the 3rd. week of March.