Photokina - Canon abandons the pros

[NashvilleMike]

Nikon has already played a remarkable card with their 58mm f1.4 (imho best bokeh with the Canon 85mm f1.2 of anything shorter than the Nikon 200mm f2.0) and they are likely to release soon their new 135mm f2.0. I would expect Sato san to have led that project too. He will probably have focused on look instead of emotionless technical perfection.

Going off topic a bit here, but Sato doesn't generally do the tele's. The patents I've seen for the rumored 135 Nikkor have (If I recall correctly) Tomoki Ito's name on them. He's got a good history with the teles. IMO what's needed in the 135 length is something with decent bokeh as well as the technicals; while I love my Zeiss apo sonnar 135, I seriously need a very high quality autofocus 135mm lens and Nikons current offerings do not meet my standards on the 800E. It will be interesting to see who gets there first: Sigma with their art series or Nikon. Sadly, I'm betting Sigma...

Now, so I don't remain completely off topic, my thoughts on the Canon thing are simply that while I'm a bit amazed they have not yet come out with a D800/D800e/D810 competitor, that they will. Canon has quietly building some very nice lenses lately (the 24-70 II, the new 16-35) so they'll have some things that are ready. But IMO the reality is that in the 135 frame size, I think the gains by resolution much above where we are now are going to be splitting hairs and other than the fanboy competition of "I have xx megapixel and you only have yy megapixel" nonsense, I think it's going to take a new technology (Foveon like change in sensor, etc) from the big players to move into the next neighborhood of quality. But I think Canon will eventually get to a higher mp / cleaner shadow sensor fairly soon, and they'll probably be "ahead" of Nikon in the numbers race for a few years. Always seems to go back and forth when you look at things across a wider timeframe with those two players.

Sorry for the thread hijack, just wanted to stick that in there

[jjj]

your quite right! I meant to quote someone else

my bad... mea culpa...

No problem.   
We all make mistakes, it's how you deal with them that counts.

[jjj]

I find Canon oversaturates the Reds and Nikon oversaturates the greens.  Of course, depending on the camera model, you can customize this to some extent or 'correct' it globally on a per camera basis in your post processing software.  And most digital cameras want to shift blues toward purple.

Do you use LR/ACR to process your raw files, if so are you using the Canon profiles in the Calibration tab? These profiles were added some years back and they solved the red/orange rendition problem that was an issue when using Adobe profiles.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I do not think Canon is abandoning the pros...

And the basis for your opinion is...?

... I never ever used any canon DSLR

Ah! 

[allegretto]

now you've done it... where's the popcorn... popcorn...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

While some pros are abandoning Canon, some others are jumping at the chance to use it:

(From a Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/SirBankWells)

[melchiorpavone]

While some pros are abandoning Canon, some others are jumping at the chance to use it:

Pros are just a tiny portion of the market.

[nemophoto]

Ah yes. Perhaps they may be lower in numbers, but more influential and visible. Look at any ad from almost any major manufacturer. Frequently, they tout the work of a pro, not Aunt Mary down the street. When beta testing, manufacturers use pros (such as Canon with sports shooters at the World Cup or Olympics), not the Oshkosh Camera Club.

[allegretto]

Ah yes. Perhaps they may be lower in numbers, but more influential and visible. Look at any ad from almost any major manufacturer. Frequently, they tout the work of a pro, not Aunt Mary down the street. When beta testing, manufacturers use pros (such as Canon with sports shooters at the World Cup or Olympics), not the Oshkosh Camera Club.

No...

well there goes my chance at being beta-tester...

damn, I thought for sure this time...

[melchiorpavone]

Ah yes. Perhaps they may be lower in numbers, but more influential and visible. Look at any ad from almost any major manufacturer. Frequently, they tout the work of a pro, not Aunt Mary down the street. When beta testing, manufacturers use pros (such as Canon with sports shooters at the World Cup or Olympics), not the Oshkosh Camera Club.

But they sell more to amateurs, by far, even of the high-end cameras. Apparently you don't know many cardiologists or dentists. When you make $30-40K per month you can buy all the camera gear you want, provided that you don't have too many ex-wives to support.

The most expensive lenses are generally not owned by the pros but by newspapers or news agencies; or they are rented.

It cracks me up to see those ads...they should be showing doctors and dentists, who are often better photographers anyway.

Would you buy one brand of pasta over another just because you see an ad showing some chef holding the package? Or would you try different brands and use your own taste buds as the final arbiter?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

From recent threads in the For Sale forum:

Lots of high end Canon gear. Price drop😃...I am switching to Nikon from Canon

Canon 5d Mark 3 in MINT condition, like new in box... Reason for sale: switching to another system.

[melchiorpavone]

From recent threads in the For Sale forum:

A local camera shop reports that Canon sells slightly better than Nikon, even though the shop owner prefers Nikon. Most of the staff own Canon. I have heard several people complain that Canon's pro program is much better, and that would be a real consideration. They say Nikon USA does not care....I hear the same thing about how the two companies treat dealers. Nikon is uncooperative in the extreme.

I have no horse in this race, but if I didn't own Leicaflexes I would not buy Nikon under any circumstances. Ever.

[NancyP]

Oh, so THAT'S what people mean by saying that Canon caters to wildlife photographers.....
Fine humor, Slobodan!

[DeanChriss]

A local camera shop reports that Canon sells slightly better than Nikon, even though the shop owner prefers Nikon. Most of the staff own Canon. I have heard several people complain that Canon's pro program is much better, and that would be a real consideration. They say Nikon USA does not care....I hear the same thing about how the two companies treat dealers. Nikon is uncooperative in the extreme.

I have no horse in this race, but if I didn't own Leicaflexes I would not buy Nikon under any circumstances. Ever.

This is a very good point, and as a potential switcher I'd be very interested to hear about anyone's experience getting Nikon equipment repaired. CPS members get repair turnaround times of 2 days and 30% repair discount with a Platinum membership, and up to 5-7 days and no discount with a free "Silver" membership. There are also lots of other perks in the program. Based on my own experience the repairs are flawless and you get back a camera that's cleaned inside and out and looks like new. I've heard that non-CPS repairs of "professional equipment" (1-series and 5D series bodies, and I think L-series lenses) is also 5-7 days, but I'm not sure if that's always true.

[melchiorpavone]

This is a very good point, and as a potential switcher I'd be very interested to hear about anyone's experience getting Nikon equipment repaired. CPS members get repair turnaround times of 2 days and 30% repair discount with a Platinum membership, and up to 5-7 days and no discount with a free "Silver" membership. There are also lots of other perks in the program. Based on my own experience the repairs are flawless and you get back a camera that's cleaned inside and out and looks like new. I've heard that non-CPS repairs of "professional equipment" (1-series and 5D series bodies, and I think L-series lenses) is also 5-7 days, but I'm not sure if that's always true.

From the horse's mouth, I hear that Nikon treats dealers poorly, and has very poor service to pro club members, if there still is one.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It's not like that cameras go to service every 5,000 shutter clicks, like cars. In 40 years of photography, I had to send a camera for repair only once (Canon 40D for a faulty CF slot). When on assignment or trip, service time does not matter much, that is why we have back up cameras.

[melchiorpavone]

It's not like that cameras go to service every 5,000 shutter clicks, like cars. In 40 years of photography, I had to send a camera for repair only once (Canon 40D for a faulty CF slot). When on assignment or trip, service time does not matter much, that is why we have back up cameras.

Pros need it. They drop cameras, and even though they have multiples they still need service.

Pros use their cameras much more than amateurs. I would imagine that today's cameras are much more fragile because of all the electronics and plastic do-dads on them.

[kers]

From the horse's mouth, I hear that Nikon treats dealers poorly, and has very poor service to pro club members, if there still is one.

Well i cannot complain about the nikon professional service here in Holland; The Nikon service is very good. For the time of repair you can have a replacement of your equipment if you like..
and repairs usually take only a few days; If you need a replacement while working you can have it in a few hours...

[melchiorpavone]

Well i cannot complain about the nikon professional service here in Holland; The Nikon service is very good. For the time of repair you can have a replacement of your equipment if you like..
and repairs usually take only a few days; If you need a replacement while working you can have it in a few hours...

That is good, but apparently the situation in the United Snakes is different.

[Misirlou]

Pros need it. They drop cameras, and even though they have multiples they still need service.

Pros use their cameras much more than amateurs. I would imagine that today's cameras are much more fragile because of all the electronics and plastic do-dads on them.

Interesting observation. I've been shooting for decades, but only really selling in the last 6 years or so. Never dropped or broke any camera, until I started to make money with them. And Canon fixed them quickly and completely when I did so.