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Author Topic: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)  (Read 57741 times)

eronald

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2014, 08:57:56 am »

the video is motion jpeg? if you are serious about 4k you are better off not buying the ostrich leather strap for your Leica and buying something from panasonic instead.

The latest Samsung NX1 appears to be a video killer - something entirely new in the compression.
And it probably costs as much as an S2 lens cap.
The nice thing about Leica are the lenses - I just wish they would do what Zeiss does and make them available in other mounts, including for MF gear - I'm sure the Phase shooters here would love a Leica lens, and when you pay $30K for the back alone a Leica lens makes sense.

http://www.eoshd.com/2014/09/photokina-report-day-1-samsung-nx1-4k-mirrorless-camera-h-265/

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 09:00:22 am by eronald »
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Theodoros

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2014, 09:13:50 am »

The S2(007) is about 4K video.  Pros with video budgets are probably the only ones who can afford this gear anymore.  By incorporating what appear to be really well thought-out pro-grade video features, Leica has acted extremely intelligently.  They satisfy the fat-walleted amateurs to whom price is irrelevant, and give the pro market a reason to look at them.  I think it's impressively foward-thinking.

- N.
There are some wedding photographers that such a camera, especially one that bares the name Leica as a badge, will enhance their prestige and will strengthen their position against competition... High quality video is important to these people. Keep in mind that for many of those photographers, selling some (or all) of their DSLR equipment can pay for most of the investment required for a new S (007). These people may only be a small only percentage if compared to the vast majority of wedding photographers, but for the volumes of MF market, they are a huge number of possible additional customers.... The size of the camera, its wide lens compatibility and its high ISO performance are additional functions that make this camera attractive for these photographers.... still the decisive factor for them will be the "wow he is using a Leica - he is special" whisper of the customers which will strengthen their position in their business.
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peterv

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2014, 09:18:33 am »

The S2(007) is about 4K video. ...

Nick, I really wonder what pro image makers who are into motion think of all this. Leica talks about 4K in super 35 in sensor crop mode, but they surely can't mean 24.89 mm × 18.66 mm which is a 4:3 aspect ratio. Perhaps 4K 16:9 recording on the new S is ~ 24 mm on the long side or something in that neighbourhood, whatever the length is for 4096 pixels. Then with this method there is quite a crop factor to deal with. The widest S lens (24 mm) will give the FOV of approximately a 30-35 mm lens in FF-terms.

How good is 8 bit motion jpeg if one wants to do serious color grading in post?

I'd like to hear what people who have more experience in motion production think of the video specs of the new S.

Here's a short interview at Photokina:




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Manoli

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #103 on: September 17, 2014, 09:27:34 am »

The S2(007) is about 4K video.  [...] Leica has acted extremely intelligently.  They satisfy the fat-walleted amateurs to whom price is irrelevant, and give the pro market a reason to look at them.  I think it's impressively foward-thinking.

It may be. But is that the full story ?

There were rumours circulating about Leica and Sony having fallen out and the Pentax 'smoking' the Leica S CMOS offering. Rubbished prematurely by some on this site. It struck a chord. The alliance of C1 and Sony ( and ALPA) seems far reaching. This is just the beginning - something more akin to what used to be referred to, euphemistically by some in Chicago,  as 'taking to the mattresses'.

I suspect that Leica have acted more out of 'no alternative' rather than a technological improvement. The M-E is outselling the M240 by a large margin. Looks to me as though the same will follow here. I don't need high ISO in the MF, I might have liked to have it, but not at the expense of IQ. So the S-E will continue as a premium CCD offering - double the price of a Pentax 645 2-lens outfit and 1/2 the cost of a PhaseOne/H CMOS offering - albeit with 50 % less resolution.

I'm still tempted to buy-in to the S-E, primarily 'cos I'm a victim of the all-too-common Leica lens fetish. Nothing to-do with the red dot. But to do so I need to be convinced today, about the future viability of the format - and that's now far from being an open & shut case.



 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 09:50:45 am by Manoli »
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craigrudlin

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #104 on: September 17, 2014, 10:03:11 am »

Let me begin by stating that I  currently enjoy using the S2 and that I specialize in landscape, urban decay, abstract fine art
photography.  That stipulated:

(1) Please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that the "new S-E" is merely the current "S" without any changes.

(2) I am disappointed in the "new" S .  I was anticipating and wanting higher resolution (yes, I often make 40x60 inch prints),
an LCD with more resolution, and if live view is to be useful, articulated.  I would like to have seen a sensor cleaning function
like almost all 35mm cameras have.

(3) I still feel that video should be done properly with a video camera and its presence on a still camera merely over complicates
the menus, controls, etc.  (Certainly, one of the aesthetic appeals of Leica S is the simplicity of the controls, buttons and menus.)

Apart from the lenses (and I admit, I bought into the S system solely because of the lenses) I do not see where the "new S"
excels and distinguishes itself, beyond the Nikon 810, and especially the new Pentax, both priced a small
fraction of the cost of the new S. 



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Atina

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2014, 10:11:45 am »

RBV, what did you need the BB code for? To show this photo?



https://www.flickr.com/photos/98564513@N02/12453266485/
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RVB

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2014, 11:05:04 am »

yes..  :)

That was taken with a S45mm CS..

I was going to post it to one of the posters who asked about the quality and look of the glass.

I printed it pretty large on an Epson using image print rip,the print looked very good...

Rob
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bcooter

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #107 on: September 17, 2014, 01:45:21 pm »

Man does Leica draw out the emotion.

Lover's, haters, comparers, complainers, fan boys and dagger throwers.  Everyone  is sure that their view is correct,whether they actually use a leica or not.

I love my leicas, wish they made movie cameras, wish I could justify using  everything Leica from PL's to another another 2 S bodies.

Only four cameras companies in my career produce any emotional attachment to me and that's Leica, contax, olympus and RED.

I think the commonality of those four brands are build design/quality and uniqueness.  

Other brands I mostly own, but they're tools, efficient, but tools non the less.

For me if I feel good about about all the elements of image making I shoot better, but don't need to trash one brand to prove my choice was correct.

I'm not that insecure.

Lately I read a lot of blowback from people that c__p on the idea that there is no difference in the look of ccd compared to cmos.

For my work I disagree, for my work I see a difference, a lot of leica buyers must feel the same, because the sales reflect it, though I don't need the validation of others.

I don't take photographs, I construct them and for me photography is not a science project.

Yesterday we shot 16 setups, finished about 10pm lat night.    15 sessions were with the S2 and a RED 1, 1 quick pick up session with a Canon.

I love what we shot and never thought about using a different camera, though I had four cases 5 brands to select from.

But for any other photographer I don't presume to assume my way is right.

It's too personal and  presumptuous, to make that decision for someone else.  

Leica isn't after the dslr market from CandN and their offerings and price points has made that clear.  

The fact there are now 3 prices of S cameras, 25k, 16k or a used/demo S/S2 from 10 to 8k offers a wide range for the same lens mount.

I find that a positive.

You don't own a Leica for logical reasons, but then again photography is not the most logical of endeavors.

IMO

BC

Atina

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #108 on: September 17, 2014, 02:10:12 pm »

Lately I read a lot of blowback from people that c__p on the idea that there is no difference in the look of ccd compared to cmos.

For my work I disagree, for my work I see a difference, a lot of leica buyers must feel the same, because the sales reflect it, though I don't need the validation of others.

What is blowback?

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MrSmith

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tjv

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #110 on: September 17, 2014, 02:52:39 pm »

that just blocks pm’s not forum posts  :(

After I did it certain posts were blanked out, with a note saying I'd blocked the user.
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Ken R

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #111 on: September 17, 2014, 02:57:38 pm »

I think Leica is the big overall winner of this Photokina no question. They keep updating their product line from the point and shoots to their M body and lens line and their flagship SLR models. Impressive.

Phase One and Arca Swiss also stand out. C1 pro 8 is awsome. Im loving it. The IQ150 is also a great DB alternative. The more choices the better and spreads out the price range of new backs a bit. (As usual wish it were lower in price ;) ). But to those who have not used an IQ chasis back check them out. They are all a joy to use. Makes previous backs feel like dinosaurs.  

Yes, like most here, I was expecting a new phase one camera body although since I use my back on a Hasselblad H body it doesnt really concern me that much.
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Theodoros

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #112 on: September 17, 2014, 03:15:56 pm »

I am anxious to see what their plans with Sinar are... My bet would go for a version of that new Cmos sensor for a new sinarback of 48mp at 36x48mm size... The LV capability of modern Cmos could make things much simpler (and far less costly) when used with view cameras.
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eronald

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #113 on: September 17, 2014, 05:11:51 pm »

It is interesting that they are lowering some prices. It's almost like they would like people to actually use these cameras more :)

The Panasonic cooperation with Leica labelling seems to work well too, in their own stores.  Panasonic is now making some really good cameras.

Edmund

I think Leica is the big overall winner of this Photokina no question. They keep updating their product line from the point and shoots to their M body and lens line and their flagship SLR models. Impressive.

Phase One and Arca Swiss also stand out. C1 pro 8 is awsome. Im loving it. The IQ150 is also a great DB alternative. The more choices the better and spreads out the price range of new backs a bit. (As usual wish it were lower in price ;) ). But to those who have not used an IQ chasis back check them out. They are all a joy to use. Makes previous backs feel like dinosaurs.  

Yes, like most here, I was expecting a new phase one camera body although since I use my back on a Hasselblad H body it doesnt really concern me that much.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 06:20:33 pm by eronald »
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JV

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #114 on: September 17, 2014, 07:13:49 pm »

The Panasonic cooperation with Leica labelling seems to work well too, in their own stores.  Panasonic is now making some really good cameras.

That D-LUX Typ 109 (Panasonic LX100) actually looks really sexy IMO…

The Leica X Typ 113 as well…  I wish it had a viewfinder though...
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JV

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #115 on: September 17, 2014, 09:53:38 pm »

The fact there are now 3 prices of S cameras, 25k, 16k or a used/demo S/S2 from 10 to 8k offers a wide range for the same lens mount.

True.  And a used Leica S2 is good value, especially if you also have some H or C glass.

A lot of people are disappointed because the new S does not offer more MP.  I personally am not.  I would like to keep the versatility and ability to shoot handheld as is.

I would like to see the S user base grow though and I don't see that happening with the new S.  A $3.5K price increase and new features most current users don't get excited about. 

Hopefully I am wrong though and Leica finds a market for the new S like they did with the Monochrom.  Who would have thought that was a good idea?
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RVB

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2014, 01:42:18 am »

Sales of he new S will largely depend on file quality,will it be as good or better than CCD at pixel level?

Now that we have 2 S bodies in the product line,could Leica add a high res body to satisfy those who want/need more pixels?

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bcooter

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #117 on: September 18, 2014, 05:04:00 am »


The nice thing about Leica are the lenses - I just wish they would do what Zeiss does and make them available in other mounts, including for MF gear - I'm sure the Phase shooters here would love a Leica lens, and when you pay $30K for the back alone a Leica lens makes sense.


I would bet Leica will make a mirror lock up and pl mount adapter for the cmos S.

Actually if you want to stay pure leica you could buy the leica PL set, though 6 costs $102,000. 

At 20 grand a lens the S starts to look very inexpensive, but you'd be amazed the number of dp's that spec leica lenses for large production.

IMO

BC

Manoli

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #118 on: September 18, 2014, 05:16:00 am »

Actually if you want to stay pure leica you could buy the leica PL set, though 6 costs $102,000. 

Cheapskate - that's for the 'crons. If you're anybody you buy the 'lux versions .. double the price.

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Atina

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Re: The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)
« Reply #119 on: September 18, 2014, 05:52:01 am »

Cheapskate - that's for the 'crons. If you're anybody you buy the 'lux versions .. double the price.



Let me see them. :)
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