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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 268662 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2460 on: December 16, 2021, 02:38:45 pm »

It may turn out like the regular flu.

COVID-19 is not seasonal flu and comparisons to seasonal flu are of little to no use in understanding the disease, its potential health risks, or ongoing evolution and potential outcomes.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2461 on: December 16, 2021, 02:52:55 pm »

Officials are not treating it like the flu however...

That's because it's not the flu and public health officials understand that fact.

...insisting on masking up again.

That makes sense.

The problem is many people are done with the mask.

The problem is that there are too many people in society making decisions from a base of ignorance, or worse, on the basis of false or misleading information from sources with no expertise or credibility. They represent a potential health risk to those around them and aid the virus in its mission to infect as many as possible.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2462 on: December 16, 2021, 04:32:37 pm »

Who wrote that and where did you read it?

In their recent report, WHO stated that Omicron infections appear to be "less severe" than Delta, however the transmissibilty is much higher.
A few days ago, UK reported their first Omicron death. That contrasts with 146 other Covid deaths in that country just yesterday - presumably majority caused by the earlier Covid variants.

In addition, many recent deaths can be attributed to indirect effects of covid. So even if Omicron is less deadly, if it causes more hospitalizations due to a wider spread, this prevents the doctors and hospitals from treating other patients. Regardless of the covid variant, it doesn't make for cheerful Christmas.

https://fortune.com/2021/12/13/who-omicron-covid-variant-outpace-delta-uk-cases-vaccine-booster/
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2463 on: December 16, 2021, 04:51:41 pm »

https://www.who.int/who-press-conference-on-coronavirus-disease-(covid-19) 14-december-2021

Omicron is spreading at a rate we have not seen with any previous variant. We're concerned that people are dismissing omicron as mild. Surely we have learned by now that we underestimate this virus at our peril. Even if omicron does cause less severe disease the sheer number of cases could once again overwhelm unprepared health systems.

I need to be very clear. Vaccines alone will not get any country out of this crisis. Countries can and must prevent the spread of omicron with measures that work today. It's not vaccines instead of masks. It's not vaccines instead of distancing. It's not vaccines instead of ventilation or hand hygiene.

Do it all. Do it consistently. Do it well.


https://www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron

Severity of disease: It is not yet clear whether infection with Omicron causes more severe disease compared to infections with other variants, including Delta.  Preliminary data suggests that there are increasing rates of hospitalization in South Africa, but this may be due to increasing overall numbers of people becoming infected, rather than a result of specific infection with Omicron.  There is currently no information to suggest that symptoms associated with Omicron are different from those from other variants.  Initial reported infections were among university students—younger individuals who tend to have more mild disease—but understanding the level of severity of the Omicron variant will take days to several weeks.  All variants of COVID-19, including the Delta variant that is dominant worldwide, can cause severe disease or death, in particular for the most vulnerable people, and thus prevention is always key.

https://www.who.int/10 December 2021/enhancing-readiness-for-omicron-technical-brief

There are still limited data on the clinical severity of Omicron. While preliminary findings from South Africa suggest it may be less severe than Delta, and all cases reported in the EU/EEA to date have been mild or asymptomatic, it remains unclear to what extent Omicron may be inherently less virulent. More data are needed to understand the severity profile.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 04:59:52 pm by TechTalk »
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2464 on: December 16, 2021, 06:20:29 pm »

In their recent report, WHO stated that Omicron infections appear to be "less severe" than Delta, however the transmissibilty is much higher.
A few days ago, UK reported their first Omicron death. That contrasts with 146 other Covid deaths in that country just yesterday - presumably majority caused by the earlier Covid variants.

In addition, many recent deaths can be attributed to indirect effects of covid. So even if Omicron is less deadly, if it causes more hospitalizations due to a wider spread, this prevents the doctors and hospitals from treating other patients. Regardless of the covid variant, it doesn't make for cheerful Christmas.

https://fortune.com/2021/12/13/who-omicron-covid-variant-outpace-delta-uk-cases-vaccine-booster/

Deaths typically lag behind infections so the number of deaths caused by the Omicron variant is yet to be seen as the infections just started to take off.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2465 on: December 16, 2021, 10:39:35 pm »

Not sure what that even means. Have they had with anti-biotics? Have they had it with chemo for cancer? Have they had it with stopping at red lights? It's incoherent.
It means they're willing to take their chances and not wear a mask.  Especially those who have been vaccinated. What's incoherent about that?

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2466 on: December 16, 2021, 10:42:00 pm »

Who wrote that and where did you read it?
Les said it's not as deadly,  See above.  ::)

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2467 on: December 16, 2021, 11:48:16 pm »

I didn't ask Les where he read the statement that he made. I asked you where you read the statement that you made.

If you won't or can't supply a source, it won't be a surprise or the first time.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2468 on: December 17, 2021, 12:05:01 am »

I didn't ask Les where he read the statement that he made. I asked you where you read the statement that you made.

If you won't or can't supply a source, it won't be a surprise or the first time.
Read his link. 

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2469 on: December 17, 2021, 12:06:43 am »

Well... no surprise and not the first time.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2470 on: December 17, 2021, 12:20:04 am »

It means they're willing to take their chances and not wear a mask.  Especially those who have been vaccinated. What's incoherent about that?

Nothing incoherent, merely stupid.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2471 on: December 17, 2021, 12:38:14 am »

Nothing incoherent, merely stupid.
Why is it stupid? People who have been vaccinated are not the ones dying in hospitals. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2472 on: December 17, 2021, 12:51:24 am »

Why is it stupid? People who have been vaccinated are not the ones dying in hospitals.

I apologize. In my haste, I read it (of course, incorrectly) as unvaccinated.
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2473 on: December 17, 2021, 02:00:07 am »

Why is it stupid? People who have been vaccinated are not the ones dying in hospitals. 
Maybe,  but they can still get it though not so seriously. If they get it they can spread it. Very selfish.
Jonathan
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2474 on: December 17, 2021, 08:16:01 am »

I apologize. In my haste, I read it (of course, incorrectly) as unvaccinated.
No problem.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2475 on: December 17, 2021, 08:33:49 am »

Maybe,  but they can still get it though not so seriously. If they get it they can spread it. Very selfish.
Jonathan

Aren't you pointing your finger at the wrong group? Why are you calling the vaccinated selfish?  I've gotten both initial shots and immediately got the booster when available as did my wife.  If the unvaccinated get vaccinated, then they won't have to worry either.  Very selfish of the unvaccinated to make people who went through the trouble to protect themselves and society be forced to wear a mask because they don't want to get vaccinated.

This interestingly raises the question of just what's selfish and stupid.  How many of us take our families on weekend drives into the country to photograph the fall foliage?  Of course, we make sure everyone's belted up.  And of course, the government mandates seatbelts to be installed and worn and air bags installed to put us in a bubble if we get into a crash.  Meanwhile, 40,000 Americans or so die every year, and millions more maimed.  Is it stupid to go drive into the country?  Should we risk our children?  What about how selfish it is to put other drivers, passengers and pedestrians into danger just so we can get our pictures to brag about on LuLa or to our friends? 

The point is we all assess risk, danger, and consequences in different ways.  We all risk our lives and the lives of others as well in our everyday activities.  We get out and take risks every day.  We risk others as well whenever we get into a car.  Who stays locked up in their basements? Trying to guilt shame people is getting old here in America.  We do it with everything people do if we disagree with it.  IF you're not in favor of electric vehicles, you're destroying the earth.  If you want voter ID cards, you're racist.  I think it might be more productive to get people to take the vaccines if you'd get off their backs and understand their points of views.  Then use non-personal attacks to enlighten them.  People get defensive when you attack them and will do the opposite.

Jonathan Cross

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2476 on: December 17, 2021, 09:30:48 am »

Alan, I was answering your point about the vaccinated who in my view should wear masks. The unvaccinated are being extremely selfish not wearing masks unless there is a medical reason. With the predictions about Omicron coming out of USA it will be interesting to see what happens. I sincerely hope there is not a surge.
Jonathan
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2477 on: December 17, 2021, 09:58:43 am »

Alan, I was answering your point about the vaccinated who in my view should wear masks. The unvaccinated are being extremely selfish not wearing masks unless there is a medical reason. With the predictions about Omicron coming out of USA it will be interesting to see what happens. I sincerely hope there is not a surge.
Jonathan
Johnathan, I was in NYC yesterday for the day for some medical tests.  Interestingly, most New Yorkers on the street wear masks compared to more not wearing them here in Central New Jersey.  NYC is dying.  If they start another shutdown, it will put the final nail in the coffin for it.  NYC depends on its hospitality business- theatres, museums, great restaurants, hotels. 65 million people visited it in 2019.  Today, few are coming.  Everyone is going broke.  Retail stores, restaurants, etc have few customers even if they're fortunate to be open.  Forcing masks will keep workers at home using zoom even more.  It will cause the commercial real estate market to collapse as current leases end and are not renewed.   MY son-in-law who had been working in a law firm in Manhattan has worked at home the entire Covid period.  He was supposed to go back recently and work three days a week in the office and two at home per week.  But his firm extended the 5-day stay-at-home period again until next year because of government mandates.  When workers don't work in Manhattan, office space is superfluous.  Restaurants close.  Who needs cabs? Subways and commuter railroads lose income.  Tax revenue to support social services disappear.  The poor and low-income lose their jobs.  It snowballs. 

I'm sure NYC isn't alone in this. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2478 on: December 17, 2021, 10:01:16 am »

Johnathan, I was in NYC yesterday for the day for some medical tests.  Interestingly, most New Yorkers on the street wear masks compared to more not wearing them here in Central New Jersey.  NYC is dying.  If they start another shutdown, it will put the final nail in the coffin for it.  NYC depends on its hospitality business- theatres, museums, great restaurants, hotels. 65 million people visited it in 2019.  Today, few are coming.  Everyone is going broke.  Retail stores, restaurants, etc have few customers even if they're fortunate to be open.  Forcing masks will keep workers at home using zoom even more.  It will cause the commercial real estate market to collapse as current leases end and are not renewed.   MY son-in-law who had been working in a law firm in Manhattan has worked at home the entire Covid period.  He was supposed to go back recently and work three days a week in the office and two at home per week.  But his firm extended the 5-day stay-at-home period again until next year because of government mandates.  When workers don't work in Manhattan, office space is superfluous.  Restaurants close.  Who needs cabs? Subways and commuter railroads lose income.  Tax revenue to support social services disappear.  The poor and low-income lose their jobs.  It snowballs. 

I'm sure NYC isn't alone in this.

I wonder if people have "had it" with condoms.
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2479 on: December 17, 2021, 01:04:07 pm »

The poor and low-income lose their jobs.  It snowballs. 

I'm sure NYC isn't alone in this.

Here in BC the unemployment rate is back to pre-Covid times and there are tons of help wanted signs everywhere. Many restaurants cannot run full time ( closed 2 / 3 days a week ) due to not having enough staff. McDonalds have signs offering $3 more than minimum wage ( $15 / hour ).

Yes, some sectors are hit hard...but if someone wants a job...they can cherry pick.
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