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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1298426 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9340 on: March 22, 2021, 05:45:18 pm »

In international news today...

Saudi Arabia proposes Yemen ceasefire and peace talks

https://www.axios.com/saudi-arabia-proposes-yemen-ceasefire-peace-talks

Saudi Arabia presented a new initiative to end the war in Yemen on Monday and called on the Houthi rebels to endorse it.

Why it matters: The war in Yemen has caused perhaps the world's worst humanitarian crisis and has become Saudi Arabia's "Vietnam."
  • The U.S. originally backed the Saudi-led effort to oust the Houthis after they deposed the Yemeni government.
  • But soon after taking office, the Biden administration ended support for offensive operations in Yemen and suspended arms deals with the Saudis.
Driving the news: Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan said at a press conference that the proposal includes:
  • An immediate ceasefire in Yemen under UN supervision.
  • A reopening of Sana'a International Airport.
  • Direct peace talks between the exiled Yemeni government, which was ousted in 2014, and the Houthi rebels.
What they're saying: “We will make every effort to press the Houthis to accept the initiative. The ball is in their court."
  • Farhan added that Saudi Arabia hopes the Biden administration endorses the initiative. “If the Houthis refuse, the U.S. and the international community should put pressure on them," he said.
Secretary of State Tony Blinken spoke today with Farhan about the situation in Yemen.
  • He expressed the U.S. commitment to helping Saudi Arabia defend itself and condemned recent attacks on Saudi territory from Yemen, State Department spokesperson Ned Price said.
  • They also discussed efforts to end the war, starting with a ceasefire and steps to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid, Price said.

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degrub

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9341 on: March 22, 2021, 06:12:37 pm »

best thing that has happened in this thread in a long while. ;)
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9342 on: March 22, 2021, 08:11:41 pm »

More mythology.
FDI went down, not up, under Trump.
The biggest increases in inflows were during the Obama administration fm 161 to a high of 511 billion.

https://data.oecd.org/fdi/inward-fdi-flows-by-partner-country.htm#indicator-chart
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.KLT.DINV.CD.WD?locations=US

You're distorting the figures and cherry picking the numbers.  Obama started his presidency in the middle of a recession - 2009.  So the 161 billion was at the low.  The year before under Bush, the amount was 341 billion.  So naturally, the increase seems relatively better. While his top was 511 billion that was in 2015.  His last year as president, 2016, it was going down again at 474B.  It was still going down under TRump to 366 in 2017 before the tax bill was passed.  It hit 261 in the first year of 2018 but then started up again to 351B in 2019.  So investments were getting better.  Your chart didn't have figures for 2020.  But I assume they will be terrible due to Covid. 

The point is lower corporate taxes in a country encourages foreign investment.  We also see that among the 50 states.  States that have higher taxes like New York struggle to attract new businesses to their state.  Meanwhile, states like Texas with lower taxes attract more.  Sure, there are other things that affect it like Covid, recessions, onerous regulations, and other things.  But all things remaining equal, lower business taxes are better to attract foreign investments. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9343 on: March 22, 2021, 08:27:28 pm »

As a general rule, I find conversations about taxes to be silly. Everyone ALWAYS complains about taxes but everyone wants public services, whether they admit it or not and even when they don't realize it, there is a lot of self-delusion at play. There is a corollary effect where everyone thinks they're underpaid but are convinced that people who do services for them charge too much.

Are taxes high these days? Which taxes, municipal, state/provincial, income tax? Were they higher in the 1950s and 1960s where everyone was doing ok and there was less disparity in wealth and income. Did tax policy aid that, did it make it worse?

When a state/province downloads services to cities and brags about lowering taxes, is it just smoke up your ass? You still have to pay someone, don't you?

I've heard a lot of complaints about regulations and taxes and such over the last decade or two, but I'm not detecting much suffering on the part of the 1%, have you? Did forcing companies to clean the air and water hurt them much, because I'm having trouble seeing how it did. Maybe some of them suffered but tough shit, if you can't make a living without poisoning your neighbours, what good are you to anyone? Slave traders used to make good coin buying and selling human beings, but nobody misses them much any more.

Bottom line, the take-home pay of the middle class has stagnated since Reagan and has gotten worse since the 2008 crash. Spin it all you want, that's not a good thing and it was the policies introduced since the Reagan era that caused that to happen. It had to be, it wasn't the weather and it's not as if there was any shortage of investment capital in the world. There was always plenty of money to gamble in credit default swaps and fraudulent mortgage-backed securities.

Basically we have a culture full of sheeple who have fallen hook line and sinker for the stupid idea that if we're nice to the 1% and let them keep and horde all their wealth and facilitate that by cooperative laws and sell our public sphere to them, then they will look kindly on us and give us a few jobs. It didn't work for serfs during feudalism and it's not working now. Of course, it works for the 1% just fine.

(Rant over, time for lunch.)




Opposite to your thinking, inflation is the culprit and destroying the middle class, not the wealthy.  Printing especially created the larger gap between rich and poor.  As the government prints, assets mainly owned by wealthier people go up.  Meanwhile, the value of the dollar decreases due to inflation.  That affects the poor and middle class more because they are living on fixed income like Social Security and a paycheck from week to week.  Since they have little assets, their wealth decreases. 

You see this now with all the printing.  Look at the stock market and real estate?  It's booming making the rich richer.  The Fed's printing is helping to do that.  And when the Democrats pass more printing above the $1.9 T, the rich will get even richer.  The little $1400 payments are soon consumed by the average family.  Meanwhile, the rich's assets go up all caused by Democrat and Republican spending and printing.

Taxes are also recessive and are also responsible for the decrease wealth of middle and lower classes.  60-70 years ago, SS was only 3%.  NOw it's 6.2% plus the employer's similar 6.2%.  There's a discussion going on to raise Social Security taxes.  We also have Medicare at 1.45%.  Add in higher local taxes, property taxes, sales, etc, these are the taxes that affect middle and lower classes the most, just like VAT taxes in  Europe.  They're recessive, not progressive.  Both parties have been responsible for this mess because neither side is serious about balancing the budget and lowering spending.  It's easier to print.  But in the end, inflation and higher taxes are destroying the middle class.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9344 on: March 22, 2021, 09:24:10 pm »

In international news today...

Saudi Arabia proposes Yemen ceasefire and peace talks

https://www.axios.com/saudi-arabia-proposes-yemen-ceasefire-peace-talks

Saudi Arabia presented a new initiative to end the war in Yemen on Monday and called on the Houthi rebels to endorse it.

Why it matters: The war in Yemen has caused perhaps the world's worst humanitarian crisis and has become Saudi Arabia's "Vietnam."
  • The U.S. originally backed the Saudi-led effort to oust the Houthis after they deposed the Yemeni government.
  • But soon after taking office, the Biden administration ended support for offensive operations in Yemen and suspended arms deals with the Saudis.
Driving the news: Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan said at a press conference that the proposal includes:
  • An immediate ceasefire in Yemen under UN supervision.
  • A reopening of Sana'a International Airport.
  • Direct peace talks between the exiled Yemeni government, which was ousted in 2014, and the Houthi rebels.
What they're saying: “We will make every effort to press the Houthis to accept the initiative. The ball is in their court."
  • Farhan added that Saudi Arabia hopes the Biden administration endorses the initiative. “If the Houthis refuse, the U.S. and the international community should put pressure on them," he said.
Secretary of State Tony Blinken spoke today with Farhan about the situation in Yemen.
  • He expressed the U.S. commitment to helping Saudi Arabia defend itself and condemned recent attacks on Saudi territory from Yemen, State Department spokesperson Ned Price said.
  • They also discussed efforts to end the war, starting with a ceasefire and steps to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid, Price said.


This could also be one of the incentives for the Saudis to stop fighting.  They can't afford it.

Saudi Arabia's state-backed oil giant Aramco saw its profit tumble by 44% last year, as coronavirus pandemic restrictions slashed fuel demand around the globe.
Aramco, the world's largest oil company, reported earnings of $49 billion in 2020, down from $88.2 billion in the year before. CEO Amin Nasser described last year as "one of the most challenging years in history."
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/21/979723576/saudi-oil-giant-aramco-reports-44-profit-slump-in-2020-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9345 on: March 22, 2021, 09:52:16 pm »

Given that in a pandemic year they still brought in $49 billion in earnings and the royal family's wealth is estimated at well over a trillion dollars, I doubt if they will be pleading poverty anytime soon.
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Manoli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9346 on: March 23, 2021, 07:42:01 am »

You're distorting the figures and cherry picking the numbers.  Obama started his presidency in the middle of a recession - 2009 [...] But all things remaining equal, lower business taxes are better to attract foreign investments.

I distorted nothing , those are the figures peak to trough.
I added the links so you could fact check them yourself.

But this one you got right : 'all things remaining equal'.
All things weren't equal under Trump and that in itself was the biggest deterrent to DFI.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9347 on: March 23, 2021, 09:15:35 am »

Given that in a pandemic year they still brought in $49 billion in earnings and the royal family's wealth is estimated at well over a trillion dollars, I doubt if they will be pleading poverty anytime soon.
I believe some of that money pays the government budget.  It helps the government pay its bills including the cost of war.  They can't afford the war. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9348 on: March 23, 2021, 09:23:29 am »

I distorted nothing , those are the figures peak to trough.
I added the links so you could fact check them yourself.

But this one you got right : 'all things remaining equal'.
All things weren't equal under Trump and that in itself was the biggest deterrent to DFI.
It depends where you want to start looking.  In 2016, under Bush, the amount was 341 billion.  In Obama's last year, his was 474B  an increase of 474-341= 133 B.  Or an increase of 28% over 8 years or 3 1/2% a year. 

But the main point is that while investments are affected by many things, lower business taxes encourage investment which is good for an economy.  It creates more jobs.  So increases in taxes reduce those benefits.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9349 on: March 23, 2021, 03:05:23 pm »

Well, if the virus picks up again, we can always blame Trump.  After all, he's the one who made all the decisions about these things.  Oh wait.  Now that Biden's president, suddenly it's state officials making the decisions.

Mayor Ends Remote Work for 80,000 in Signal to Rest of New York City
Office workers will return starting May 3 in a move that is intended to broadcast a message that New York is reopening for business.
Across the nation, city and state leaders have grappled with the question of how and when to safely reopen, as the worst of the pandemic seems to have passed. New York has generally been more cautious than places like Texas, which has lifted mask restrictions and has allowed businesses to fully reopen.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/nyregion/coronavirus-work-return-nyc.html#commentsContainer

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9350 on: March 23, 2021, 03:16:20 pm »

Just too absurd (but an excuse for a few here who remain nameless and don't read anyway):
Quote
Sidney Powell's legal defense: 'Reasonable people' wouldn't believe her election fraud claims
Lawyers for the Trump ally claim she was just sharing an opinion when she said the election was stolen using machines built to rig races for Hugo Chavez.
“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” Powell's attorneys said in a court filing.

Reasonable person, hilarious.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9351 on: March 23, 2021, 04:00:45 pm »

I believe some of that money pays the government budget.  It helps the government pay its bills including the cost of war.  They can't afford the war.

The Saudi's have vast financial resources. Aramco — which despite the pandemic remains near the top of the largest and most profitable companies in the world — is only one asset. They have made billions and billions of capital investments in a variety of holdings across the globe for decades.

What they are lacking right now is political capital. The outrage following the murder of Jamal Khashoggi combined with the shocking humanitarian crisis in Yemen has left them much poorer in global political capital. Becoming further isolated from the world due to moral outrage over their political and military conduct is what they can't afford. Yemen is indeed their Vietnam.

The humanitarian crisis in Yemen has only increased over the years. In 2017 alone, an estimated 50,000 children died of starvation. This year the U.N. has projected that at least 400,000 Yemeni children under 5 could die of starvation. The Saudi's don't want more blame cast in their direction for deaths seen as immoral and inexcusable.

https://www.reuters.com/article/yemen-security-malnutrition-int/at-least-400000-yemeni-children-under-5-could-die-of-starvation-this-year-un-agencies
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9352 on: March 23, 2021, 04:33:40 pm »

We all agree that canceling the pipeline wasn't a smart decision.

No, we all do not agree on that. The US is a net exporter of petroleum products so why on earth do we need to import more? And the tar sand oil is particularly nasty, with its production ruining vast stretches of land and contributing huge amounts of global warming gas--3 times as much as conventional oil production--simply from its production, let alone its burning. Chemicals used in production have been documented in rivers and groundwater.

The pipeline would have great negative environmental and social impact simply by being built, digging up native people's sacred grounds, disturbing sensitive ecosystems, the ever-present chance of leaks, and so on. The extraction process uses huge amounts of water which is then permanently polluted. The huge tailing ponds contain toxic heavy metals and hydrocarbons.

The choice is not between the pipeline and trucks/trains. The choice is between the pipeline and leaving the oil in the ground. Don't bring the goddamn oil down here, we do not need it. The world does not need it.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9353 on: March 23, 2021, 05:47:09 pm »

It depends where you want to start looking.  In 2016, under Bush, the amount was 341 billion.  In Obama's last year, his was 474B  an increase of 474-341= 133 B.  Or an increase of 28% over 8 years or 3 1/2% a year. 

You may have missed a couple of things. The last full year of the Bush presidency was 2008, not 2016. Also, there was an economic crisis in between you may have heard about.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9354 on: March 23, 2021, 05:51:49 pm »

Just too absurd (but an excuse for a few here who remain nameless and don't read anyway):“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” Powell's attorneys said in a court filing.

Reasonable person, hilarious.

I guess she thought she could say anything in public that she wanted to. Risky assumption, that. So now she's using the Trump defense, "I wasn't serious, c'mon."

Considering the business that Dominion is in, integrity is probably pretty important to them. So if I were them, I'd pursue legal action against her and her fellow travellers to the ends of the earth.

I wonder what her next line of defense will be. Maybe she'll try, "I'm so stupid that nobody takes me seriously anyway." That tactic has plausibility on its side, at least.
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9355 on: March 23, 2021, 06:54:12 pm »

Just too absurd (but an excuse for a few here who remain nameless and don't read anyway):“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” Powell's attorneys said in a court filing.

Reasonable person, hilarious.

To be fair, taken literally as stated, her lawyers are right.  ;D
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9356 on: March 23, 2021, 11:47:20 pm »

You may have missed a couple of things. The last full year of the Bush presidency was 2008, not 2016. Also, there was an economic crisis in between you may have heard about.
yes 2016 should be 2008.  My typo.  But all the data is the same.  The point is companies invest more if taxes are lower.  That grows the economy and increases jobs. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9357 on: March 24, 2021, 07:44:58 am »

yes 2016 should be 2008.  My typo.  But all the data is the same.  The point is companies invest more if taxes are lower.  That grows the economy and increases jobs.

My understanding is that, overall, corporate taxes are historically low, why do you keep complaining about the country being broke? Shouldn't it be trending the other way. Some companies like Apple and Amazon seem to pay near zero tax, can't get much lower than that. Didn't Warren Buffet point out that his secretary pays more tax (rate) than him?

My question is, are taxes really high? I know everyone always says they are, they always do, but is it true?

Besides which, so far as I can tell, the 1% seem to be doing ok. Current taxes don't seem to hurting them much.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9358 on: March 24, 2021, 08:42:39 am »

My understanding is that, overall, corporate taxes are historically low, why do you keep complaining about the country being broke? Shouldn't it be trending the other way. Some companies like Apple and Amazon seem to pay near zero tax, can't get much lower than that. Didn't Warren Buffet point out that his secretary pays more tax (rate) than him?

My question is, are taxes really high? I know everyone always says they are, they always do, but is it true?

Besides which, so far as I can tell, the 1% seem to be doing ok. Current taxes don't seem to hurting them much.
Taxes are lower but Biden wants to increase them again.  That will make your Canadian companies more competitive to ours.  Why should Biden be any nicer to you than Trump? :)

Taxing corporations just raise the prices of the products being sold. So the buyers are paying the tax which lowers their standard of living just like a VAT tax does.  Taxes are better paid by stockholders directly when they get dividends and when they sell the stock as capital gains. 

The problem is not with taxes. It's with spending more than they collect in taxes.  We have to get a handle on spending which apparently no one cares about anymore.  Even Republicans have fallen in love with printing. Trump printed 900B for Covid; Biden already at $1.9T and now wants to print another $3T at least. 

Here's a great real-time clock that shows debt, expenditures, taxes, on a second by second basis.  Note how much debt each individual ($85,000 when I looked) and the taxpayer ($224,000) has on the nation debt.  Note how much less in taxes we have taken in against federal spending $3.5T vs. $6.7T.  We're spending almost double what we take in taxes.  OF course, the rest has to be borrowed and printed.   It's insane.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9359 on: March 24, 2021, 09:25:20 am »

Well, of course.

Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador blames migrant crisis on Biden
https://nypost.com/2021/03/24/mexican-president-obrador-blames-migrant-crisis-on-biden/
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