Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

I visited my dermatologist a couple of weeks ago. He has an obsession for collecting antique signs and bottles and all manner of other stuff relating to quack remedies that were sold out of the backs of wagons and in drug stores back in the good old days before regulations became such a menace to civilization, some of which might even kill you if you took them, and certainly none of which would be of the slightest benefit. I mean the stuff is in the waiting room, the hallways, the examining rooms, everywhere. You look at the signs and read the labels and think who could possibly be so dumb as to buy, much less take, any of that. Yet people did.

It's no different today.  Look at all the people who shop in vitamin stores, buy all those Pelotons, and spend all the time in gyms to get in shape, then go out afterward to Dunkin Donuts.  Should we regulate those industries.  We just made pot legal and will allow more carnage on the roads.  Most people just want to be let alone by the government.  Politicians think it's their job to tell everyone how to live rather than letting individuals live their lives as they wish.  You see it with COvid and a million other rules.  Did you put the plastic container for the 35mmm film cassette in the recyclable trash container?  Gee I hope so.  I wouldn't want you choking some little guppy in the ocean.

[Alan Klein]

This is an interesting conversation from Sam Harris' Making Sense series, https://samharris.org/podcasts/233-groves-misinformation/.

The interviewee is a sociologist with special interests in mass communication and mis-communication, who was an early writer on Covid and they review the early mix-ups and confusion about what actions to take.

It is informative on the subject of moral hazard, which is alluded to in passing. She suggests that arguments re moral hazard have been largely debunked by data and gives a few examples. One example is the notion that seat belts in cars may cause people to be more reckless. Seat belts saves lives, that's a primary effect. The idea that people take greater risks because they are wearing seat belts is one that never made any sense to me (or her) and is at best is a second-order effect. That is, the number of injuries caused by any increased recklessness is completely overwhelmed by the benefits. I have never bought into the idea that wearing them makes people more reckless, mostly because I spent a large part of my life involved in motorsport where a lot of thought is given to safety, and the idea of the moral hazard in adopting safety measures is simply laughably stupid beyond belief.

The interviewee points out some other examples. Moral hazard was not the main focus of the discussion but came up as examples of illogical thinking that somehow arise a lot these days. It's illuminating to review what has happened over the last year.

You're making the point that seat belt laws aren't necessary.  People are smart enough to figure out that they're safer wearing them and will do that.  People aren't stupid.  Somehow they manage to stay alive for a long time and know when to take precautions.  If they don't, well they're just hurting themselves, unlike speeding laws where they can kill others and regulations have more meaning.  We don't need a bureaucrat in Washington to look after us like a nanny.

[Peter McLennan]

We just made pot legal and will allow more carnage on the roads.

More PDOMAs.

How would you already know that pot results in "more carnage on the roads" if "We just made pot legal"  ?

[Peter McLennan]

People aren't stupid.

I disagree.  Apparently seventy fucking million of them voted for the former guy.

[Alan Klein]

More PDOMAs.

How would you already know that pot results in "more carnage on the roads" if "We just made pot legal"  ?

Traffic studies in states by government agencies where they legalized pot show an increase in accidents and death.  Also, regarding minimum wage, the Congressional Budget Office studies show that 1.4 million people will lose their jobs if they imposed a $15 minimum wage. 

[Alan Klein]

I disagree.  Apparently seventy fucking million of them voted for the former guy.

Maybe you got it wrong about Biden and they're smarter than you think.

[digitaldog]

I disagree.

+1
After all these pages, the amount of stupidity posted, and then the generalization that “people aren't stupid” demands:
“The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.” - Writer Harlan Ellison

[digitaldog]

U.S. Carries out an airstrike today in Syria.
Maybe Alan got it wrong about Biden and Biden is smarter than he thinks.

[faberryman]

We were talking about regulation regarding economic activity.  Fire escapes on buildings have to do with Building Codes.  I'm not opposed to them.

So building codes are not governmental regulations in your world.

Do you have sprinklers?  Why not?  Don't you care about your family?  Why are you waiting for codes to make you install them?  No one stops anyone from exceeding code requirements.

This is the third time you have ask me these questions in a week. The first time you asked, I answered. The second time you asked, I answered that if you hadn't gone to the trouble to read my answers the first time, or had forgotten what I wrote, I wasn't going to go to the trouble of repeating them. So in response to you asking me the same questions a third time, I'll just say see my previous answers. And I asked you specifically not to whatabout the conversation to sprinklers in homes, but I guess the temptation to change the subject was too great and you buckled under the pressure.

It's like Groundhog Day around here.

[faberryman]

Did you put the plastic container for the 35mmm film cassette in the recyclable trash container?  Gee I hope so.  I wouldn't want you choking some little guppy in the ocean.

I'm not sure they had invented recycling at the time I last saw film come in a plastic container. Do I detect that you like having the oceans polluted with plastic?

[faberryman]

It's no different today.  Look at all the people who shop in vitamin stores, buy all those Pelotons, and spend all the time in gyms to get in shape, then go out afterward to Dunkin Donuts.  Should we regulate those industries.

So instead of exercise, you just forego donuts? Exercise is good for you with or without donuts. I think the donut industry, like everything else related to food, is regulated. I think there is a regulation that you can't put dogshit in donuts. Seems like a good idea to me. I am not that interested in learning the hard way.

Speaking of not regulating vitamins, the FDA and FTC regulate vitamins and other dietary supplements.

https://crnusa.org/regulation-legislation/dietary-supplements-are-regulated-fda-and-ftc

[Peter McLennan]

Traffic studies in states by government agencies where they legalized pot show an increase in accidents and death.  Also, regarding minimum wage, the Congressional Budget Office studies show that 1.4 million people will lose their jobs if they imposed a $15 minimum wage.

Unverified assertions.  PDOMAs.  Links, please.

[Peter McLennan]

Maybe you got it wrong about Biden and they're smarter than you think.

I wasn't talking about Biden.  I was talking about the former guy and stupid people.

[faberryman]

You're making the point that seat belt laws aren't necessary.  People are smart enough to figure out that they're safer wearing them and will do that.  People aren't stupid.  Somehow they manage to stay alive for a long time and know when to take precautions.

You obviously haven't spent much time hanging around ERs.

"Nearly 56%, or 16,836 people, of the 30,251 with available restraint information were not wearing seat belts at the time of the fatal auto accident. Research found that 7,064 people killed in car wrecks during the daytime were not wearing safety belts. Of those killed in nighttime car accidents, 9,615 were not wearing seatbelts."

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident/defective-products/seat-belts/seat-belts-statistics.html

That was the first search result. Maybe you can find some better statistics. But it looks to me like people are stupid. Have you heard of the Darwin Awards?

https://darwinawards.com/

[Alan Klein]

I'm not sure they had invented recycling at the time I last saw film come in a plastic container. Do I detect that you like having the oceans polluted with plastic?

  I think there are laws in America against dumping in the ocean. China is the biggest offender.  I believe NYC dumps all its garbage in landfills in upper NY State and PA.  I am not opposed to regulation.  It often is overboard, however.

[Alan Klein]

So instead of exercise, you just forego donuts? Exercise is good for you with or without donuts. I think the donut industry, like everything else related to food, is regulated. I think there is a regulation that you can't put dogshit in donuts. Seems like a good idea to me. I am not that interested in learning the hard way.

Speaking of not regulating vitamins, the FDA and FTC regulate vitamins and other dietary supplements.

https://crnusa.org/regulation-legislation/dietary-supplements-are-regulated-fda-and-ftc

Companies are very careful today with their products.  First off, they can be sued.  Look what happened with baby powder.  Also, because the public is informed and cares about these things, companies have to be careful they don't offend or they chance to lose their customers.  It's important they provide clean, safe products except for the Chinese junk we buy through Amazon. That stuff we know only lasts three days.

[Alan Klein]

Unverified assertions.  PDOMAs.  Links, please.

I've furnished these before, the CBO study just the other day. You can Google them if you're interested. 

[Alan Klein]

I wasn't talking about Biden.  I was talking about the former guy and stupid people.

Exactly.  And those millions looked at Biden and said Trump is smarter than him and isn't losing it to senility. 

[Alan Klein]

You obviously haven't spent much time hanging around ERs.

"Nearly 56%, or 16,836 people, of the 30,251 with available restraint information were not wearing seat belts at the time of the fatal auto accident. Research found that 7,064 people killed in car wrecks during the daytime were not wearing safety belts. Of those killed in nighttime car accidents, 9,615 were not wearing seatbelts."

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident/defective-products/seat-belts/seat-belts-statistics.html

That was the first search result. Maybe you can find some better statistics. But it looks to me like people are stupid. Have you heard of the Darwin Awards?

https://darwinawards.com/

So what's your point?  So these people are stupid and criminals too.  They violated the laws.  So what good are the laws? 

[digitaldog]

It's important they provide clean, safe products except for the Chinese junk we buy through Amazon.

“We” being you and your wife or speaking (nonsense) for others again?