Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Trump's insistence on the Republican party believing in conspiracy theories—and the majority of the party going along with it—certainly hasn't helped breed unity in either the party or the country.

How would you describe the Democrat members going along with the conspiracy theory of Trump colluding with Russians.  It started before the inauguration and went on for years even after Mueller said there was no there there.  He was called a "traitor" by Democrat politicians and members of the media constantly.  The mass hysteria of the Democrats seems to be lost on you.

[JoeKitchen]

Trump's insistence on the Republican party believing in conspiracy theories—and the majority of the party going along with it—certainly hasn't helped breed unity in either the party or the country.

And yet the conspiracy theories the Dems push do? 

Sorry, but there is no compromise on political censorship, I don't care how crazy it is.  This also goes for medical and scientific censorship too.  I do not trust the government to be authorities on truth and dictate what can and what can not be talked about.  The same goes for the social media companies.  If you go down this road, there is no telling where you will end up, and we have seen many countries who have ended up in real bad places.  It does not come all at once either, but could a long slow loss of rights even for the side that started it. 

Just as an example of how crazy this is, in the 1930s a fringe idea was going around that all government officials and scientists refuted, that smoking causes cancer.  If this came out today, I cant imagine Facebook, Twitter and others not censoring it.  After all, they are censoring even the most mundane things right now. 

So, I am against all of it, will fight tooth and nail against, and will openly question any Americans' patriotism who is for it, which I might add I consider to be non-existent if you are. 

[JoeKitchen]

If you think that kicking a bunch of Dunning Kruger poster children off of Twitter is the second coming of totalitarianism, then you’re not capable of having a serious discussion on the subject.

Where does it stop? 

This is how authoritarians always start.  "I need to do this for the good of the country."

As I just mentioned, even the littlest disagreement by medical professionals on the policies of the last year is getting them kicked off social media. 

[James Clark]

How would you describe the Democrat members going along with the conspiracy theory of Trump colluding with Russians.  It started before the inauguration and went on for years even after Mueller said there was no there there.  He was called a "traitor" by Democrat politicians and members of the media constantly.  The mass hysteria of the Democrats seems to be lost on you.

Alan..  Trump’s campaign DID send data to Russians.  The Trump campaign WAS aware that Russia was working on his behalf.  These facts are incontrovertible.  Did it rise to the level of criminal conspiracy?  Did Trump attempt to hide further evidence?  Bill Barr said that question was not applicable because a sitting President can’t be criminally charged.  Hardly “mass hysteria” of the sort that the Trump hardcore propagate. 

[Alan Klein]

That's probably of little comfort to Republicans that are being censured and attacked by their own party for disagreeing with their colleagues in voting to impeach and convict Trump.

Power fights within political parties have nothing to do with public discourse. Public discussion should have the widest possible openness and freedom to express your views without fear of punishment or banishment.  That's what this country stands for.  We should try very hard to not impinge on that freedom.  It's very sacred and valuable yet often underappreciated today.   

[TechTalk]

The framers knew of this and knew of these provisions in state constitutions, yet did not include the language in the US constitution.  This, to me, implies the framers deliberately meant impeachment to only be used on officials still in office.

There was no language included that said former officials could not be impeached either; so I don't know how you can draw an implication either way simply on that basis.

The language that they did use and which is crystal clear is that they gave the sole power of impeachment and trial to Congress. A more logical implication based on the language that they did include is that they gave that discretion to Congress to decide, based on the individual circumstances of the conduct involved and not the current status of office.

[TechTalk]

Power fights within political parties have nothing to do with public discourse.

Power fights within political parties do not generally include censure as is happening within the Republican Party as we speak.

[JoeKitchen]

Alan..  Trump’s campaign DID send data to Russians.  The Trump campaign WAS aware that Russia was working on his behalf.  These facts are incontrovertible.  Did it rise to the level of criminal conspiracy?  Did Trump attempt to hide further evidence?  Bill Barr said that question was not applicable because a sitting President can’t be criminally charged.  Hardly “mass hysteria” of the sort that the Trump hardcore propagate.

Your side is no better then the right.  Be a man and own up to it.  Below is an article in Bloomberg News outlining the issues on each side. 

Conspiracy Theories Find Audience in Democrats, Republicans

You are for opening a Pandora's box.  Sure, you have the power now and can wield it you want.  But just like with getting rid of the filibuster for judicial appointees, be careful what you wish for. 

I was listening to a interview with Hanson this weekend, and he made a pretty salient point.  It is beyond obvious the only reason the left defended freedom of speech is not because they actually believed in it, but because they were the minority.  Now that they are the majority, they could care less about it and are more interested in power at all costs.  This is what you are sounding like right now. 

[James Clark]

Where does it stop? 

Somewhere east of “It’s important for these morons to be able to spread the idea that Hillary Clinton eats babies in a DC pizza shop.”

This is how authoritarians always start.  "I need to do this for the good of the country."

How many times did Trump use this exact excuse?  How many people used that excuse to go nuts  when they attacked the Congress a few weeks ago? 

[Alan Klein]

Where does it stop? 

This is how authoritarians always start.  "I need to do this for the good of the country."

As I just mentioned, even the littlest disagreement by medical professionals on the policies of the last year is getting them kicked off social media. 

Even environmentalists who don't spout the company line.

[James Clark]

Your side is no better then the right.  Be a man and own up to it.  Below is an article in Bloomberg News outlining the issues on each side. 

Conspiracy Theories Find Audience in Democrats, Republicans

You are for opening a Pandora's box.  Sure, you have the power now and can wield it you want.  But just like with getting rid of the filibuster for judicial appointees, be careful what you wish for. 

I was listening to a interview with Hanson this weekend, and he made a pretty salient point.  It is beyond obvious the only reason the left defended freedom of speech is not because they actually believed in it, but because they were the minority.  Now that they are the majority, they could care less about it and are more interested in power at all costs.  This is what you are sounding like right now.

It’s cute how you, and so many other Trumpers have suddenly found Jesus in compromise and comity   . The problem is that Dems are starting to act like Mitch McConnell and y’all are crying about it.

[Alan Klein]

Alan..  Trump’s campaign DID send data to Russians.  The Trump campaign WAS aware that Russia was working on his behalf.  These facts are incontrovertible.  Did it rise to the level of criminal conspiracy?  Did Trump attempt to hide further evidence?  Bill Barr said that question was not applicable because a sitting President can’t be criminally charged.  Hardly “mass hysteria” of the sort that the Trump hardcore propagate. 

You're still one of the conspiracy theorists.  After all this time, you claim Mueller was wrong.  No one ever argued that the Russians didn't favor Trump and used the internet or other means to help him.  But Trump himself was not part of a conspiracy as determined by Mueller.  In fact, not one American anywhere conspired with the Russians.  While people were charged with lying and financial crimes, there was no collusion by anyone inside or out of the Trump campaign.  Yet you still want to pervert what the Russians did on their own and blame Trump.  Incredible.

[JoeKitchen]

Somewhere east of “It’s important for these morons to be able to spread the idea that Hillary Clinton eats babies in a DC pizza shop.”

The problem with this statement is you have made a political alliance with a group of people (the left) who dont at all care about this country or the constitution.  They want to take it all the way to socialism and steam roll anyone who gets in their way, including many liberals like yourself and the history/culture of this nation.  That is why they are cancelling Lincoln and others; just as was warned 4 years ago when the same kind of liberals like yourself insisted the left would stop with the confederates.  They did not. 

I am waiting for MLK to be cancelled too.  After all, he was philanderer and there was at least once recorded account of him allowing a woman in his office to be sexual abused. 

Cancelling the Pizzagate thing may sound good, but it will spread much further, and the left does not appear to have any controlling principles other then desire for power. 

So, your (side's) track record here is pretty abysmal, not to mention you dont yet understand the faustian bargain you made with the socialist left.  T

So, perhaps I may be able to trust you, but neither you, nor any other actual moral person will be the one in power implementing this.  No truly moral person ever goes into politics.  No moral person desires to be in control over people's lives.  Instead it will be dictated by a politician who made the decision to achieve power.  I, not for one instant, would trust Harris with this power, but she very well could get it. 

This is not a power I will give the government or corrupt politicians ever. 

[Alan Klein]

Meanwhile, you approve of the Obama administration's use of the FBI to illegally go after a political enemy. 

[Alan Klein]

The problem with this statement is you have made a political alliance with a group of people (the left) who dont at all care about this country or the constitution.  They want to take it all the way to socialism and steam roll anyone who gets in their way, including many liberals like yourself and the history/culture of this nation.  That is why they are cancelling Lincoln and others; just as was warned 4 years ago when the same kind of liberals like yourself insisted the left would stop with confederates.  They did not. 

So, your (side's) track record here is pretty abysmal, not to mention you dont yet understand the faustian bargain you made with the socialist left.  T

So, perhaps I may be able to trust you, but you, nor any other actual moral person will be the one in power implementing this.  No truly moral person ever goes into politics.  No moral person desires to be in control over people's lives.  Instead it will be dictated by a politician who made the decision to achieve power. 

This is not a power I will give the government or corrupt politicians ever. 

Unfortunately, we are again in a situation where both Congress and the presidency are run by one party.  Very dangerous. 

[faberryman]

You're lumping me and 74 million people into this group QAnon which I never even heard of until recently.  I still don't know who they are.

I think that was Mike Pence’s defense too. This article in Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, will give you a brief introduction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

[James Clark]

You're still one of the conspiracy theorists.  After all this time, you claim Mueller was wrong.  No one ever argued that the Russians didn't favor Trump and used the internet or other means to help him.  But Trump himself was not part of a conspiracy as determined by Mueller.  In fact, not one American anywhere conspired with the Russians.  While people were charged with lying and financial crimes, there was no collusion by anyone inside or out of the Trump campaign.  Yet you still want to pervert what the Russians did on their own and blame Trump.  Incredible.

No, Alan, those ARE Muellers conclusions, as well as those of the Republican led Senate committee. Trumps campaign DID communicate with Russians.  They WERE aware Russia was working in a pro-Trump manner. Barr DID say those things were not actionable.

[James Clark]

The problem with this statement is you have made a political alliance with a group of people (the left) who dont at all care about this country or the constitution. 

This is why you can’t be taken seriously.

[Alan Klein]

I think that was Mike Pence’s defense too. This article in Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, will give you a brief introduction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

I'm not familiar with the Mike Pense defense.  Is that something like the Sicilian defense in chess?

In any case, I looked at the article you posted.  Here's the first paragraph.  They sound like a bunch of crazies, nothing that I would join nor would any other republican or half sane person.  It's really unfortunate that you would accuse me of agreeing with these idiots.  What's wrong with you?

QAnon[a] (/ˌkjuːəˈnɒn/), or simply Q, is a disproven and discredited far-right conspiracy theory alleging that a secret cabal of Satan-worshipping,[1] cannibalistic pedophiles is running a global child sex-trafficking ring and plotted against former U.S. president Donald Trump while he was in office.[2][3][4][5] According to U.S. prosecutors, QAnon is commonly called a cult.[6]

[JoeKitchen]

It’s cute how you, and so many other Trumpers have suddenly found Jesus in compromise and comity   . The problem is that Dems are starting to act like Mitch McConnell and y’all are crying about it.

You know, my brother, an avoid socialist often makes this same case.  He recently said, Schumer should just nix the filibuster, McConnell would do it if h had the chance. 

Well McConnell did have the chance in 2017, and he did not, and it was the reason more republican policies did not get through.  So this is all talk on your side with no basis in fact.