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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1324607 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9220 on: March 19, 2021, 12:53:18 pm »

Thanks. Good read.
Indeed, very interesting.
Of course Alan misinterpreted it with his assumptions.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9221 on: March 19, 2021, 12:58:26 pm »

The issue is that the CDC and experts are not only not consistent, they appear to be playing with the full truth.  If you're a believer in the mask no matter what, then it doesn't matter.  But if you suspect that someone is trying to pick your pocket, it is imperative that the experts tell the full truth and not play games.  Once they go down that path, they lose a big portion of the public.  That's not the public's fault but rather the experts gaming the whole thing. They lose credibility and people will ignore them.

You're "Q", aren't you?  C'mon, admit it, you're among friends.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9222 on: March 19, 2021, 01:00:36 pm »

You're "Q", aren't you?  C'mon, admit it, you're among friends.
He did write: “They lose credibility and people will ignore them.“
Alan has list all credibility and people should ignore him.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9223 on: March 19, 2021, 01:04:40 pm »

That's another problem, I agree. We're paying people to stay home and not work.  Stupidity.  How will that help the economy? We're looking into traveling.  Everyone is wanting to travel.  Prices are going to skyrocket.  With no cruise boats, planefare and hotels will also escalate their prices.  20% more for a haircut is one thing.  But imagine having to pay 20% more for an expensive trip to another country with hotels, airfare, restaurants, etc.

When a vaccinated person is exposed to a viral load, they begin to fight off the infection and do so better than if they hadn't been vaccinated (mostly). But they still have a viral load. Since Covid has been shown to transmit before symptoms are detected, there is good reason to assume that even though they are fighting off the disease, they can still transmit to others. There is no reason to think that this is not the case, in fact it's a stupid assumption to make. Thus the continued recommendation to keep wearing masks till herd immunity and less societal risk is achieved.

Is this really so difficult to understand?

Why are you trying to make a fight out of this? Why are you trolling again? If someone was paying you, I'd get it, but who would be paying for this, the election is long over.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9224 on: March 19, 2021, 01:11:54 pm »

The issue is that the CDC and experts are not only not consistent, they appear to be playing with the full truth.  If you're a believer in the mask no matter what, then it doesn't matter.  But if you suspect that someone is trying to pick your pocket, it is imperative that the experts tell the full truth and not play games.  Once they go down that path, they lose a big portion of the public.  That's not the public's fault but rather the experts gaming the whole thing. They lose credibility and people will ignore them.

They have been very consistent. When new facts emerged, they altered policies to reflect new knowledge.

Who is trying to pick your pocket?

Other than the former administration, who has lied to you? When you misinterpret things, that's not the same as them lying, you know.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9225 on: March 19, 2021, 01:15:54 pm »

You're "Q", aren't you?  C'mon, admit it, you're among friends.
You've outed me.   8)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9226 on: March 19, 2021, 01:21:23 pm »

When a vaccinated person is exposed to a viral load, they begin to fight off the infection and do so better than if they hadn't been vaccinated (mostly). But they still have a viral load. Since Covid has been shown to transmit before symptoms are detected, there is good reason to assume that even though they are fighting off the disease, they can still transmit to others. There is no reason to think that this is not the case, in fact it's a stupid assumption to make. Thus the continued recommendation to keep wearing masks till herd immunity and less societal risk is achieved.

Is this really so difficult to understand?

Why are you trying to make a fight out of this? Why are you trolling again? If someone was paying you, I'd get it, but who would be paying for this, the election is long over.
You may be right. But you're not an expert and you're not Fauci.  You kept telling us to listen to the experts.  Well, I am.  I am not listening to you but rather to Dr. Fauci, the expert.

Now, we were discussing what Fauci said under oath when he was questioned about that. He did not disagree with the senator when Senator Paul stated that there's no evidence that vaccinated people can get or transmit Covid 19.  Fauci had an opportunity under oath to refute the Senator's point and refused to do that.  He only stated that the mask would be needed for the variants. So that's why we should continue to use it. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9227 on: March 19, 2021, 01:30:03 pm »

They have been very consistent. When new facts emerged, they altered policies to reflect new knowledge.

Who is trying to pick your pocket?

Other than the former administration, who has lied to you? When you misinterpret things, that's not the same as them lying, you know.
The CDC lied to us in the beginning.  They told us only medical officials needed the mask.  They did so because there was a shortage of masks and they wanted to avoid the general public from hoarding leaving medical people without them.  They knew the general public would be better protected.  But they deliberately lied to us.  SO they started right off with the big lie.  It's downhill from there. 

So now, Fauci will not dispute the Senator's claim that there's no evidence vaccinated people need the mask for protection.  Yet the CDC continues to make it seem like you still need it for that.  Well, who's right?  The CDC or Fauci?  More confusion and enough questions that make it seem the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  It sows doubt in many people that no one knows what they're talking about or they're deliberately lying, especially because the masks have become such a political issue.  I'm not blaming gFauci or the CDC for that although they have their own actions to get together. It just seems to many people there too much BS going around.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9228 on: March 19, 2021, 01:33:12 pm »

You may be right. But you're not an expert and you're not Fauci.  You kept telling us to listen to the experts.  Well, I am.  I am not listening to you but rather to Dr. Fauci, the expert.

Now, we were discussing what Fauci said under oath when he was questioned about that. He did not disagree with the senator when Senator Paul stated that there's no evidence that vaccinated people can get or transmit Covid 19.  Fauci had an opportunity under oath to refute the Senator's point and refused to do that.  He only stated that the mask would be needed for the variants. So that's why we should continue to use it.

You might be making a mountain out of nothing. You seem to be assuming an awful lot from the fact that Fauci did not address this one point. My guess is that, like me, he doesn't listen to what loudmouth moron politicians say and probably missed it. I mean, he's been there before many times. Maybe he was thinking about lunch, what time of day was this held?

I think you're reading more into this than it actually contains. Your interpretation is, at best, a reach.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9229 on: March 19, 2021, 01:35:27 pm »

You may be right. But you're not an expert and you're not Fauci.  You kept telling us to listen to the experts.  Well, I am.  I am not listening to you but rather to Dr. Fauci, the expert.

Earlier today on Earth One:

Me?  I still wear the mask when I'm around others as does my wife.  I don't believe the senator or Fauci so I play it safe.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9230 on: March 19, 2021, 01:36:57 pm »

The CDC lied to us in the beginning.  They told us only medical officials needed the mask.  They did so because there was a shortage of masks and they wanted to avoid the general public from hoarding leaving medical people without them.  They knew the general public would be better protected.  But they deliberately lied to us.  SO they started right off with the big lie.  It's downhill from there.  ...

Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone that I heard early on last year was pretty clear about why they were not advocating PPE, and it was because of the shortage, to prevent shortages in hospitals. I don't know you keep painting this as some kind of lie, I was hearing it on podcasts in March. I think you are completing mistaken about this, you just keep repeating the same story as if no other info was presented to you.



...
So now, Fauci will not dispute the Senator's claim that there's no evidence vaccinated people need the mask for protection.  Yet the CDC continues to make it seem like you still need it for that.  Well, who's right?  The CDC or Fauci?  More confusion and enough questions that make it seem the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  It sows doubt in many people that no one knows what they're talking about or they're deliberately lying, especially because the masks have become such a political issue.  I'm not blaming gFauci or the CDC for that although they have their own actions to get together. It just seems to many people there too much BS going around.

Again, I think this is non-issue that exists only in your head.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9231 on: March 19, 2021, 01:39:15 pm »

You might be making a mountain out of nothing. You seem to be assuming an awful lot from the fact that Fauci did not address this one point. My guess is that, like me, he doesn't listen to what loudmouth moron politicians say and probably missed it. I mean, he's been there before many times. Maybe he was thinking about lunch, what time of day was this held?

I think you're reading more into this than it actually contains. Your interpretation is, at best, a reach.
The senator made the point a couple of times and Fauci sidestepped his answer each time until trotting out the variant defence.  I think he knows well that the senator is correct.  People are not getting Covid once they have been vaccinated and there's no evidence they can spread it either.  He doesn't want to say it because then he would have to take a position that the mask isn't needed for Covid 19 if you're vaccinated.  That would upset his boss Biden's political position. That's what's really going on here.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9232 on: March 19, 2021, 01:43:47 pm »

Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone that I heard early on last year was pretty clear about why they were not advocating PPE, and it was because of the shortage, to prevent shortages in hospitals. I don't know you keep painting this as some kind of lie, I was hearing it on podcasts in March. I think you are completing mistaken about this, you just keep repeating the same story as if no other info was presented to you.



Again, I think this is non-issue that exists only in your head.


I remember that they were also saying that the general public doesn't have to worry about it too much. That it doesn't prevent the spread of the disease. It's only because medical people in hospitals are exposed so much.

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9233 on: March 19, 2021, 01:44:44 pm »

The senator made the point a couple of times and Fauci sidestepped his answer each time until trotting out the variant defence.  I think he knows well that the senator is correct.  People are not getting Covid once they have been vaccinated and there's no evidence they can spread it either.  He doesn't want to say it because then he would have to take a position that the mask isn't needed for Covid 19 if you're vaccinated.  That would upset his boss Biden's political position. That's what's really going on here.

Wrong! There is plenty of evidence. I supplied several such links in my previous posts, and you'll be able to find many more through Google.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9234 on: March 19, 2021, 01:48:25 pm »

I remember that they were also saying that the general public doesn't have to worry about it too much.

They? You mean Donald Trump? If you remember that anyone other than Donald Trump or one of his quislings said "the general public doesn't have to worry about it too much", you are misremembering.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9235 on: March 19, 2021, 01:52:40 pm »

I remember that they were also saying that the general public doesn't have to worry about it too much. That it doesn't prevent the spread of the disease. It's only because medical people in hospitals are exposed so much.
Here's an article from Mar 31, 2020.  Interestingly, it seems Trump was recommending masks for general use before the CDC and other experts. 

THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS
Should We All Be Wearing Masks In Public? Health Experts Revisit The Question

A few months ago, it may have seemed silly to wear a face mask during a trip to the grocery store. And in fact, the mainline public health message in the U.S. from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has been that most people don't need to wear masks.

But as cases of the coronavirus have skyrocketed, there's new thinking about the benefits that masks could offer in slowing the spread. The CDC says it is now reviewing its policy and may be considering a recommendation to encourage broader use.

At the moment, the CDC website says the only people who need to wear a face mask are those who are sick or are caring for someone who is sick and unable to wear a mask.

But in an interview with NPR on Monday, CDC Director Robert Redfield said that the agency is taking another look at the data around mask use by the general public.

"I can tell you that the data and this issue of whether it's going to contribute [to prevention] is being aggressively reviewed as we speak," Redfield told NPR.

And Tuesday, President Trump weighed in suggesting people may want to wear scarves. "I would say do it," he said, noting that masks are needed for health care workers. "You can use scarves, you can use something else," he said.

On Tuesday Dr. Deborah Birx, who serves as the White House's coronavirus response coordinator, said the task force is still discussing whether to change to the recommendation on masks...

...But there is still a big concern about mask shortages in the United States. A survey released Friday from the U.S. Conference of Mayors finds that about 92% of 213 cities did not have an adequate supply of face masks for first responders and medical personnel.

At this point, experts emphasize that the general public needs to leave the supply of N95 medical masks to health care workers who are at risk every day when they go to work.

And supplies are also tight for surgical masks, the masks used everywhere from dentists' offices to nail salons and that are even handcrafted.

"We need to be very mindful that the supply chain for masks is extremely limited right now," Gottlieb says. "So you really don't want to pull any kind of medical masks out of the system."

Given current shortages, it may be too soon to tell the general public to start wearing surgical masks right now. "We certainly don't have enough masks in health care," says William Schaffner, an infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University. "I wouldn't want people to go out and buy them now, because we don't want to siphon them off from health care."
Added link https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/31/824560471/should-we-all-be-wearing-masks-in-public-health-experts-revisit-the-question
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 02:02:29 pm by Alan Klein »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9236 on: March 19, 2021, 01:59:47 pm »

Wrong! There is plenty of evidence. I supplied several such links in my previous posts, and you'll be able to find many more through Google.
Les, we're discussing Fauci's official testimony, not some "hearsay" article. He didn't support your articles in his sworn statements.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9237 on: March 19, 2021, 02:05:22 pm »

They? You mean Donald Trump? If you remember that anyone other than Donald Trump or one of his quislings said "the general public doesn't have to worry about it too much", you are misremembering.
Here's what Trump said on Mar 31, 2020 a year ago before the CDC, Dr. Birx and others proposed the same thing. Apparently, my memory is better than yours.  That's because the biased anti Trump press has been lying to you for so long and you wanted to buy into it


And Tuesday, President Trump weighed in suggesting people may want to wear scarves. "I would say do it," he said, noting that masks are needed for health care workers. "You can use scarves, you can use something else," he said.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/31/824560471/should-we-all-be-wearing-masks-in-public-health-experts-revisit-the-question

faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9238 on: March 19, 2021, 02:09:18 pm »

Here's what Trump said on Mar 31, 2020 a year ago before the CDC, Dr. Birx and others proposed the same thing. Apparently, my memory is better than yours.  That's because the biased anti Trump press has been lying to you for so long and you wanted to buy into it

And Tuesday, President Trump weighed in suggesting people may want to wear scarves. "I would say do it," he said, noting that masks are needed for health care workers. "You can use scarves, you can use something else," he said.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/31/824560471/should-we-all-be-wearing-masks-in-public-health-experts-revisit-the-question

Your response and the quote therein has nothing to do with my post. Of course, that is to be expected.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #9239 on: March 19, 2021, 02:13:01 pm »

Perhaps we will achieve a resolution of the "Dreamers" issue.

House passes immigration bills with path to citizenship for "Dreamers" and farmworkers

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/daca-immigration-reform-farmworkers-citizenship-house-passes-bills/
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