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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1348888 times)

James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7760 on: February 19, 2021, 08:02:27 pm »

Utter lack of empathy.

I hear that's a libertarian/right thing, and that they're proud of it.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7761 on: February 19, 2021, 08:17:29 pm »

I am laying odds that Trump couldn't identify a dishwasher if his life depended on it.

Trump has 500 businesses most of which have to do with the building of commercial and residential buildings.  The idea he's ignorant of the money he spends on appliances and knowledge of their type, quality, functions, and cost,  just shows how little you know about Trump.

I don't really like using emoticons, but this is an example where my using one would have been helpful.

I’m guessing not everyone has an image in their head of Trump standing in front of the kitchen sink wearing a frilly apron rinsing off the dinner dishes and loading them into the trash compactor thinking it is the dishwasher.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 01:40:57 pm by faberryman »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7762 on: February 19, 2021, 09:00:11 pm »

Now I'm really pissed at Ted Cruz!
Quote
Ted Cruz Abandons Millions of Freezing Texans and His Poodle, Snowflake
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02/ted-cruz-flees-texas-for-cancun-ditches-family-poodle.html
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7763 on: February 20, 2021, 01:24:40 am »

Well, the reason I ask is, if the US forgot all about inspecting military sites, why is there this elaborate mechanism in the agreement setting forth the terms and conditions pursuant to which the UN inspectors can request to inspect the military sites, and the terms and conditions pursuant to which Iran is either required to allow the inspection or to deny access. It seems like if the US forgot about inspecting military sites, you wouldn't have such a provision in the agreement.

If you would like to read more about the issue of inspection of military sites under the agreement, this is a good summary:

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2018/04/04/the-iaeas-right-and-obligation-to-inspect-military-facilities-in-iran/

Not only that, but there were a lot of news articles at the time about the issue of inspecting military sites. Here is one example. It discusses Iran blinking and agreeing to the inspection of military sites.

http://iran-times.com/will-allow-nuke-inspectors-on-military-bases/

Not sure how there would be lots of news articles about inspecting military sites if the US forgot all about inspecting military sites.

To refresh your recollection, here was the exchange:

I mentioned that requirement previously. You're cherry-picking one post I made that was a continuation of my other posts where I said military base inspections was a Catch 22. That the inspectors would have to have a reason to inspect military bases.  But how can you have a reason to inspect before the inspection.  I posted you would have to be Superman with Xray vision to see a violation and therefor have a reason to request an inspection.  You must have missed those posts. The whole requirement is contradictory.  It was obviously written by Iran to allow Iran to avoid an inspection at their military bases so they could hide nuclear development there with no way for our inspectors to inspect.  I believe Joe mentioned that as well.  And our dummies agreed to that requirement. 

And in fact, Iran laughed and refused to let anyone ever inspect their military bases for any reason.  On that basis alone, Trump was right for pulling out of the agreement.  Iran can't have it both ways.  If Iran is refusing to allow inspections at their military bases, then what is the whole point of having an inspection protocol if they will never let you inspect the very places where they would hide nuclear development?

This was a big issue when the deal was made.  Here is just one of many articles you can find from 2015 that referenced this Catch 22 problem. iran never would accept inspections there.

Are Iranian Military Bases Off-Limits to Inspection?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/08/are_iranian_military_bases_off-limits_to_inspection_128007.html

This is what made me fall off my chair and justifies Trump's actions.  How can Biden agree to the same thing again under these conditions?

 On the day the deal was finalized, according to Iran’s Fars news service, the spokesman for Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization, Behrouz Kamalvandi, said, “In the inked roadmap, no permission has been issued for the IAEA's access to any military centers and the nuclear scientists. We have explicitly announced our positions in this regard during the [past] negotiations."

The supreme leader’s representative to the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps, Ali Saeedi, insisted publicly last month that “the enemy is not allowed to step into Iran’s strategic missile zone. The enemy is not allowed to enter our strategic depth.”

In July, after the deal was finalized, Iran’s foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, assured parliamentarians that he had made access to military sites a “red line” and that all of Iran’s objectives on the matter had been “fully achieved.”

Khamenei’s foreign policy adviser, Ali Akbar Velayati, was even more explicit. On July 25, he told al Jazeera’s Arabic service, “The access of inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency or from any other body to Iran's military centers is forbidden.”  This was 11 days after the deal was struck.
https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/are-iranian-military-bases-limits-inspection

« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 01:28:10 am by Alan Klein »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7764 on: February 20, 2021, 07:12:08 am »

I am not going to spend three days again straightening you out on this. Of course there was posturing. "Let us in. Never! Let us in. Never! Let us in. Never!" The fact is that the US never had sufficient evidence for the UN inspectors to even make a formal request under the agreement to inspect a military site, so the UN inspectors never made a formal request under the agreement to inspect a military site, and the Iranians never turned down a formal request to inspect a military site. Why do you think everybody else is still a party to the agreement? Because Iran never breached the agreement. It was all Trumped-up as a pretext to withdraw from the agreement.

Kind of sounds like the reason we invaded Iraq, doesn't it? Do the words "aluminum rods" jog your memory?

But forget all that. Let's, for the sake of argument, say that Trump exited the agreement because the US isn't Superman and doesn't have x-ray vision, blah, blah, blah. How does exiting the agreement because the UN inspectors can't inspect military sites get us closer to the goal of inspecting military sites, or more generally detecting that Iran is working on a nuclear weapon? It doesn't. It takes us back to square one. Of course, now that we are back at square one, we can return to the old, worn out, we'll sanction them back to the stone age routine, which has worked so well with North Korea. Santayana springs to mind. We shot ourselves in the foot, or cut off our nose to spite our face, or one of any number of other pithy aphorisms. But at least Trump exacted his revenge for Obama making fun of him at the White House press corps dinner for having to make tough decisions like whether to fire Meat Loaf. That's what's important. Making the world safe for democracy.

Oh, I forgot. The purpose of the agreement was never to stop Iran's development of a nuclear weapon; it was to slow down Iran's development of a nuclear weapon. Throw as many obstacles as possible in their way to delay the inevitable. Make them really work for it. You know, move stuff around in the dead of night. Set up secret facilities in caves. Play cat and mouse with the inspectors. All the usual stuff. The issue is not if Iran gets a nuclear weapon; the issue is when Iran gets a nuclear weapon.

So, let's review:

Again, do you believe that a full team of the world's leading experts on monitoring and diplomacy just dashed this out on a napkin and didn't think about these things? That they worked up this deal, signed it, and then realized, "D'OH!!!  We forgot about the *military bases*. Nuts. No way to tell what's going in or out of those things.  Oh well."

That's exactly what happened.

I speak English.  So let me repeat.  That's exactly what happened.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 01:12:47 pm by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7765 on: February 20, 2021, 08:37:09 am »

Speaking of Ted Cruz, now the parents of the students in the private school his kids attend don't want to let them back in until they have finished quarantining for 7-10 days after they get back from their little trip down Mexico way. And since everyone except the Cruz kids will be back at school, there will be no Zoom option. Maybe Snowflake can go and take notes so they don't fall behind. I wonder what lie Cruz is going to think up to explain this? He has been on a roll lately. Maybe he'll file suit and appeal his inevitable loss to the Supreme Court and we can finally get some clarity on the issue. He's been itching to make some oral arguments there. Meanwhile, his kids will be held back a year. Priceless.

Cruz family’s Cancun trip rattles their private school

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/19/ted-cruz-children-school-470341

« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 09:18:01 am by faberryman »
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kers

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7766 on: February 20, 2021, 08:41:01 am »

In reality the only nation in the ME that does not take ANY notice of international laws;
The only nation in the ME that has nuclear weapons...
Israel.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7767 on: February 20, 2021, 08:48:00 am »

The internecine strife continues apace over at the GOP, https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/20/trump-republican-party-midterms-470370. The moral is that you should be careful who you let into the tent.

It's a pretty good demonstration of Trump's true motives. If he were interested in the country or in the GOP, he'd find better ways to exert any pressure he thought was worth exerting. But no, he starts a tantrum war because some of them were not loyal to him. That he would behave like this was clear to anyone sentient, he doesn't care about anything other than himself. I guess I can sort of understand people's confusion, it's difficult to conceive of selfishness that extreme unless you have experienced it first hand. It's useful to have a family member or close associate at some point in your life so you learn to recognize such malignancy. Meanwhile, it's a gift that's being handed to the Dems. I imagine their spinners are helping to feed the frenzy. Don't know why humans had to keep re-learning that it's the cause that matters, not the individuals. It's not as if history doesn't throw up lots of examples.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7768 on: February 20, 2021, 09:24:14 am »

I am not going to spend three days again straightening you out on this. Of course there was posturing. "Let us in. Never! Let us in. Never! Let us in. Never!" The fact is that the US never had sufficient evidence for the UN inspectors to even make a formal request under the agreement to inspect a military site, so the UN inspectors never made a formal request under the agreement to inspect a military site, and the Iranians never turned down a formal request to inspect a military site. Why do you think everybody else is still a party to the agreement? Because Iran never breached the agreement. It was all Trumped-up as a pretext to withdraw from the agreement.

Kind of sounds like the reason we invaded Iraq, doesn't it? Do the words "aluminum rods" jog your memory?

But forget all that. Let's, for the sake of argument, say that Trump exited the agreement because the US is not Superman and doesn't have x-ray vision, blah, blah, blah. How does exiting the agreement because the UN inspectors can't inspect military sites get us closer to the goal of inspecting military sites, or more generally detecting that Iran is working on a nuclear weapon? It doesn't. It takes us back to square one. Of course, now that we are back at square one, we can return to the old, worn out, we'll sanction them back to the stone age routine, which has worked so well with North Korea. Santayana springs to mind. We shot ourselves in the foot, or cut off our nose to spite our face, or one of any number of other pithy aphorisms. But at least Trump exacted his revenge for Obama making fun of him at the White House press corps dinner for having to make tough decisions like whether to fire Meat Loaf. That's what's important. Making the world safe for democracy.

So, let's review:

I'll repeat it a third time.  Without the ability to inspect military bases, which Iran denies the west, the agreement was stillborn the day it was signed.  There is no deal.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7769 on: February 20, 2021, 10:16:20 am »

An update regarding the number of deaths possibly caused by Cuomo's directive to send sick old people home.:

Statewide, the findings imply that COVID-positive new admissions between late March and early May, which numbered 6,327, were associated with several hundred and possibly more than 1,000 additional resident deaths.”
https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/covid-positive-admissions-higher-death-rates/

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7770 on: February 20, 2021, 10:30:43 am »

An update regarding the number of deaths possibly caused by Cuomo's directive to send sick old people
And possibly having nothing to do with Cuomo. But since he’s a Democrat it’s pretty easy to figure out where your assumptions lie. Verb or noun...🤔
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 10:35:09 am by digitaldog »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7771 on: February 20, 2021, 10:59:14 am »

As an aside, for every death you add to the nursing home column, you have to subtract a death from the hospital column. It's not like Cuomo has a warehouse full of dead bodies we are just finding out about.

What really surprises me is that you share AOC's view on the issue. Strange bedfellows.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 11:20:09 am by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7772 on: February 20, 2021, 11:01:16 am »

I'll repeat it a third time.  Without the ability to inspect military bases, which Iran denies the west, the agreement was stillborn the day it was signed.  There is no deal.

I am aware that is Trump's position. Repeating it without providing additional reasoning is just stomping your foot. I have always found it more persuasive if the debater actually takes his shoe off and bangs it on the desk in a veritable paroxysm of uncontained rage. It elevates foot stomping to performance art.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-banging_incident
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 12:44:38 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7773 on: February 20, 2021, 11:20:32 am »

As an aside, for every death you add to the nursing home column, you have to subtract a death from the hospital column. It's not like Cuomo has a warehouse full of dead bodies we are just finding out about.
You can't have it both ways. For a year, we've been hearing here that comingling spreads the disease and death.  Restaurants have been closed, conferences, even people getting together for holidays in their own homws. So now, we have a situation, where sick old people are co=mingled with healthy old people, and you want to deny that some maybe many healthy ones didn't get sick and many of them die. 

James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7774 on: February 20, 2021, 11:32:13 am »

As an aside, for every death you add to the nursing home column, you have to subtract a death from the hospital column. It's not like Cuomo has a warehouse full of dead bodies we are just finding out about.

What really surprises me is that you share AOC's view on the issue. Strange bedfellows.

Funny you mention that, and speaking of AOC, she's been busy raising 2 million dollars to help us herein Texas - a state whose leaders regularly vilify her, and whose citizens don't care for her much either.

"Well what could Ted Cruz possibly even do?," some have asked.  If a 2nd term house rep from NY can raise 2 million dollars, just image what a republican with Presidential aspirations should be able to do.

Back to AOC and Cuomo... As some of you may be aware, NY AG Letitia James is also calling for an investigation.  The same Letitia James that's been investigating Trump while being accused of hyper partisanship.

See folks - here's the difference between lefties with empathy, conservatives with honor, and Trumpers.  Two of the three operate according to intent to help or respect for the law.  Sometimes both.  The final group?  They elevate loyalty to an idiot and making liberals angry above a functioning society, and it's pathetic.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 11:57:02 am by James Clark »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7775 on: February 20, 2021, 11:35:03 am »

So now, we have a situation, where sick old people are co=mingled with healthy old people, and you want to deny that some maybe many healthy ones didn't get sick and many of them die.
The big/Klein assumption hit parade keeps on rolling. Not maybe rolling 🤮
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7776 on: February 20, 2021, 11:37:22 am »

Funny you mention that, and speaking of AOC, she's been busy raising 2 million dollars to help us herein Texas - a state whose leaders regularly vilify her, and whose citizens don't care for her much either.

"Well what could Ted Cruz possibly even do?," some have asked?  If a 2nd term house rep from NY can raise 2 million dollars, just image what a republican with Presidential aspirations shod be able to do.

Back to AOC and Cuomo... As some of you may be aware, NY AG Letitia James is also calling for an investigation.  The same Letitia James that's been investigating Trump while being accused of hyper partisanship.

See folks - here's the difference between lefties with empathy, conservatives with honor, and Trumpers.  Two of the three operate according to intent to help or respect for the law.  Sometimes both.  The final group?  They elevate loyalty to an idiot and making liberals angry above a functioning society, and it's pathetic.

You really shouldn't paint with a paint roller...
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7777 on: February 20, 2021, 11:39:35 am »

You can't have it both ways. For a year, we've been hearing here that comingling spreads the disease and death.  Restaurants have been closed, conferences, even people getting together for holidays in their own homws. So now, we have a situation, where sick old people are co=mingled with healthy old people, and you want to deny that some maybe many healthy ones didn't get sick and many of them die.

I don't know what any of that has to do with my comment: Let's review:

As an aside, for every death you add to the nursing home column, you have to subtract a death from the hospital column. It's not like Cuomo has a warehouse full of dead bodies we are just finding out about.

I'll ask again for the forty-eleventh time. If you are not going to respond to my posts, don't quote them in your posts.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 12:53:08 pm by faberryman »
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7778 on: February 20, 2021, 11:53:42 am »

You really shouldn't paint with a paint roller...

It's an admittedly wide brush, but let's be honest - can you imagine Donald Trump or Ted Cruz breaking out the phone and tweeting for dollars for AOC's district in NY?  I can go back to CA's wildfire devastation last year - I'll be shocked if Ted or Donald- or heck, any of the Trumps - were using their status/platforms to actually raise individual contributions for Californians. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 11:59:30 am by James Clark »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #7779 on: February 20, 2021, 12:16:18 pm »

I can go back to CA's wildfire devastation last year - I'll be shocked if Ted or Donald- or heck, any of the Trumps - were using their status/platforms to actually raise individual contributions for Californians.
Worse than that:
On August 19, 2020, Senator Cruz retweeted a notice from Gavin Newsom's office asking Californians to conserve energy before 10 p.m. by setting thermostats to 78 and turning off unnecessary lights and appliances.
"California is now unable to perform even basic functions of civilization, like having reliable electricity," Cruz said. "Biden/Harris/AOC want to make CA’s failed energy policy the standard nationwide. Hope you don’t like air conditioning!"

Republican lawmaker holds up California wildfire reliefwww.sfchronicle.com ›
May 24, 2019 — Ted Cruz, R-Texas, cited three reasons for his objection.

Anyone paying attention knows what Trump said about 'sweeping' the forest ("you gotta clean your floors"). After that idiot statement, he threatened to withhold federal money to Calif.
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