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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1320324 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3080 on: December 01, 2020, 11:35:17 am »

If anyone is still interested in the voter fraud surrounding the Paterson city council race, it turns out 1200 ballots were excluded because the.signatures didn’t match, 1000 were excluded because the name of the person sending in the ballot was left blank, three because the voters were dead, and one because a voter appeared to be trying to vote twice. That leaves 800 that were unaccounted for in the article. The “facts” as reported in this article differ from the “facts” originally presented here on LuLa. You always have to check the facts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/nyregion/nj-election-mail-voting-fraud.html
You conveniently skipped the 900 fraudulent ballots that were mailed but found before they were counted and included in the results.  Based on that as well as other unknowns, the judge threw out the election.  There was no way of calculating how many phony ballots did get through and were counted. 

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3081 on: December 01, 2020, 11:44:18 am »

Hey, <insert usual suspects here> please explain why you, to the tune of $170M (so far) agree with Trump’s attempts to subvert democracy and thwart the will of the American people? 

After all, you are, in fact, part of the American people.

I do understand that this is a leading question, but we are truly interested in your explanation.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3082 on: December 01, 2020, 11:50:58 am »

But what about ICU beds if you are really sick?  America leads there.  YOu can always find a statistic to "prove" your point.  It's all nonsense.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/

Exactly what comprises the "all" that is "nonsense".
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3083 on: December 01, 2020, 11:52:11 am »

Hey, <insert usual suspects here> please explain why you, to the tune of $170M (so far) agree with Trump’s attempts to subvert democracy and thwart the will of the American people? 

After all, you are, in fact, part of the American people.

I do understand that this is a leading question, but we are truly interested in your explanation.
Why did the government spend $48 million on Mueller's investigation trying to overturn a legal presidential election?

pegelli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3084 on: December 01, 2020, 11:53:21 am »

But what about ICU beds if you are really sick?  America leads there.  YOu can always find a statistic to "prove" your point.  It's all nonsense.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/
That looks like a pretty old table Alan, 2019 OECD data the US stands at ~11 k$ per capita, quite a bit higher last year than your table suggests (See here)

But if you look the other graphs the number of nurses and number of doctors per capita the US is in the middle of the range, so I wonder why the cost is so high, do doctors in the US make much more money than their counterparts of other countries or is there another big inefficiency in the system?

Unfortunately I couldn't find the number of ICU beds in that dataset, but with regard to number of the total number of hospita beds in the US seems to be on the low side (vs. many other countries) at 2.9 per 1000.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3085 on: December 01, 2020, 11:53:58 am »

Why did the government spend $48 million on Mueller's investigation trying to overturn a legal presidential election?

Mr. Whatabout strikes again.

Not to mention that I have googled it and can't find the $48 million figure anywhere. He is making up facts again, just like he did with the Paterson city council election fraud case. Mr. Whatabout doesn't care about the facts. He just makes them up as he goes along. All the patience and politeness does not make up for a lack of facts and flawed reasoning.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 12:07:15 pm by faberryman »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3086 on: December 01, 2020, 11:54:39 am »

If anyone is still interested in the voter fraud surrounding the Paterson city council race, it turns out 1200 ballots were excluded because the.signatures didn’t match, 1000 were excluded because the name of the person sending in the ballot was left blank, three because the voters were dead, and one because a voter appeared to be trying to vote twice. That leaves 800 that were unaccounted for in the article. The facts as reported in this article differ from the facts originally presented here on LuLa. You always have to check the facts.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/nyregion/nj-election-mail-voting-fraud.html
Indeed; once again, one guy here makes a broad and untrue statement (”3000 fraudulent votes”)and the facts he never checked proves again, he has failed to connect the dots and ALL of his future posts, like the President's tweets are suspect, often bogus. Embarrassing? Nope, facts ignored.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3087 on: December 01, 2020, 11:55:27 am »

Exactly what comprises the "all" that is "nonsense".
We all pick the statistics to prove our point.  That's what's nonsense.  Most of it proves nothing because you usually can find some alternative statistic to disprove the point or at least make another point just as valid. So like every other claim, you need a little discernment before concluding anything. 

pegelli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3088 on: December 01, 2020, 11:55:39 am »

Why did the government spend $48 million on Mueller's investigation trying to overturn a legal presidential election?
To convict at least 10 crooks for illegal conduct. Fortunately when you get pardoned you're just absolved from serving time or fines, but you're still "convicted".
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pieter, aka pegelli

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3089 on: December 01, 2020, 11:56:51 am »

... Trump’s attempts to subvert democracy...

 ;D ;D ;D

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3090 on: December 01, 2020, 11:58:51 am »

Exactly what comprises the "all" that is "nonsense".
He seems unaware, again, of the facts; 90 thousand plus Americans currently in hospitals due to their severe illness from Covid-19. If someone near and dear to him ends up like those poor people, maybe it will sink into his bubble.  :'(
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chez

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3091 on: December 01, 2020, 12:01:46 pm »

America likes to lead.  :)

But someone got mixed up as the US is leading Covid to the bottom.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3092 on: December 01, 2020, 12:04:39 pm »

We all pick the statistics to prove our point. 
This from someone incorrectly accusing another, without stats or data, that another one called him a liar when he never did.
This from someone making up/posting fake states of voter fraud (3000; not true).
And so many other examples pointed out and ignored.
"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."-Mark Twain
We again? No sir. Some are providing stats backed by facts, you haven't often.
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3093 on: December 01, 2020, 12:05:48 pm »

;D ;D ;D

Peter's right, though. Team Trump is, literally, trying to persuade their associates to disregard the law and "appoint" Trump to another term against the will of the people.  The only saving grace is that they're nuts (Rudy & Sidney) or stupid (Jenna).
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3094 on: December 01, 2020, 12:06:20 pm »

Why did the government spend $48 million on Mueller's investigation trying to overturn a legal presidential election?

OK, I'll respond to a classic Klein Whataboutism:  "Because the government believed that laws had been broken".  The end result of that trial is yet to be resolved due to the opinion that the judicial system probably can't indict a sitting president.

Your turn. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3095 on: December 01, 2020, 12:07:14 pm »

That looks like a pretty old table Alan, 2019 OECD data the US stands at ~11 k$ per capita, quite a bit higher last year than your table suggests (See here)

But if you look the other graphs the number of nurses and number of doctors per capita the US is in the middle of the range, so I wonder why the cost is so high, do doctors in the US make much more money than their counterparts of other countries or is there another big inefficiency in the system?

Unfortunately I couldn't find the number of ICU beds in that dataset, but with regard to number of the total number of hospita beds in the US seems to be on the low side (vs. many other countries) at 2.9 per 1000.
I found this on Wikipedia.  ICU's in America are only beat by a couple of countries.  America is lower down in hospital beds.  What I don't know is how they count beds.  In America, a hospital bed is in a single or double room with all the gasses and equipment, modern hospital beds, etc.. There are no wards any longer.  In other countries, they may count six beds just because there are six cots in a room.  So their counts could be higher but aren't modern and technologically furnished as in America and other modern countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3096 on: December 01, 2020, 12:08:51 pm »

;D ;D ;D

Rather than derisive, condescending emoji, how about a reasoned response?
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3097 on: December 01, 2020, 12:10:18 pm »

We all pick the statistics to prove our point.  That's what's nonsense.  Most of it proves nothing because you usually can find some alternative statistic to disprove the point or at least make another point just as valid. So like every other claim, you need a little discernment before concluding anything.

If the facts are true, and relevant to the point. it is not nonsense. You are just trying to denigrate fact based statements with sweeping generalizations.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3098 on: December 01, 2020, 12:14:06 pm »

Mr. Whatabout strikes again.

Not to mention that I have googled it and can't find the $48 million figure anywhere. He is making up facts again, just like he did with the Paterson city council election fraud case. Mr. Whatabout doesn't care about the facts. He just makes them up as he goes along. All the patience and politeness does not make up for a lack of facts and flawed reasoning.
Sorry, it was only $32 million.  But what's a few million here and there?  The point is it was taxpayer money spent to get rid of a legitimate president who did nothing wrong.  If that can happen in a democracy, why can't the loser spend in an election his own money to fight what he thinks was an unfair ballot count?  That's democratic too.  It seems your side only believes in democratic principles should be used for your purposes.  The other side doesn't deserve equal and fair treatment.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #3099 on: December 01, 2020, 12:16:37 pm »

Peter's right, though. Team Trump is, literally, trying to persuade their associates to disregard the law and "appoint" Trump to another term against the will of the people.  The only saving grace is that they're nuts (Rudy & Sidney) or stupid (Jenna).

Please, people! If someone's blabbering is able to take down a 200+ years democracy... seriously!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/trump-donor-election-fraud-sues-money-back

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