Canon R5 released

[shadowblade]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547009-REG/canon_eos_r5_mirrorless_digital.html/overview

Very promising specs.

But it doesn't answer two big questions - AF performance and image quality.

To put it another way, is this an A9r or an A7r4? It has lots of AF points and human/animal eye/face tracking on paper, but how does it perform in the real world? Unmatched like the A9, or functional like the A7r4 (or D850)? Hoping for the former, but, until reviews are released, I'd probably guess somewhere in between.

And what will it be like image quality wise? I have no doubt it will perform well at ISO 800 and up, for action photography - here, most modern cameras are pretty similar. But will it display a flattening of the DR-to-ISO curve at lower ISOs (like many non-Exmor sensors) or will it be largely ISO invariant (like the Exmors and Canon's 5D4 and 1Dx3 sensors)?

I'd like to see Sony's response, too. I suspect the A7s3 may be an incomplete response, being more pro video focused and with its design far too solid by the time the R5 was in the works. The A9II is really more an A9 Mk 1.5, with only slight improvements over the original A9 outside of connectivity, designed for an Olympics which didn't end up happening. If the R5's AF system is up there with the A9, it may just force Sony to release an A9r, or to improve either the resolution of the A9III or the AF of the A7r6 so that they become an A9r in all but name.

[gkroeger]

I am interested to see what low ISO dynamic range is like.  I am also curious about how strong the low-pass AA filter is, and whether it includes focus bracketing (the RP had it but not the R). The "full specs" from Canon don't mention focus bracketing.

[SrMi]

The sensor readout speed is not in the same category as A9. I read reports that R5 focuses slightly better than a7rIII. Also, t does not have OSPDAF and related issues.
I am looking forward to real-world tests. To me, the most interesting are the available lenses.

[kers]

On the video side it has 8K, but with 8K one needs at least 60fps to make movement fluent...
Like to see the 8stop Vr...and dynamic range etc...
At least they have a better body now for the good lenses they have produced.

[Paulo Bizarro]

This is not (yet) a mirrrorless 1DX series camera, more like a 5D.

Seems like Canon are coming back with a vengeance - interesting lenses too.

[BernardLanguillier]

The sensor readout speed is not in the same category as A9. I read reports that R5 focuses slightly better than a7rIII. Also, t does not have OSPDAF and related issues.
I am looking forward to real-world tests. To me, the most interesting are the available lenses.

Indeed, all my event/portrait shooting friends are a9 or a9II due to silent shooting that’s made possible by the 1/160s read out perfo vs 1/60s on the R5. It’s the difference usable on moving subjects and pretty much useless.

None of them seem interested by the R5.

I personally am interested, it’s probably the best camera on the market for my needs, but I don’t think I’ll add Canon on top of Nikon and Sony. Although the lenses are more appealing to me than FE lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

[shadowblade]

This is not (yet) a mirrrorless 1DX series camera, more like a 5D.

Seems like Canon are coming back with a vengeance - interesting lenses too.

So, more like a A7r4 with lower resolution and higher frame rate, then.

I guess it's kind of reflected in the naming. R6 = 6D, R5 = 5D. I'll be on the lookout for an R1...

Still, it's a step in the right direction. Sony needs competition in the mirrorless space to push them harder, and, without an AF system to match the A9, it almost doesn't matter what the other specs are..

I like the way Sony has been going with its recent GM lenses. The 12-24/2.8 looks pretty spectacular. The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 are due for Mk II versions, being two of the first three GM lenses released (the 85/1.4 is not typically used for subjects where sharpness is the main criterion), and judging by recent GM lenses, I'd expect them to be super-sharp (my current 24-70 is very sharp, but I had to go through four copies to get it). Certainly wouldn't mind if they all cost as much as the new 12-24 if they're all prime-sharp, with no compromises made to reduce cost - a set of them would make an ideal general photography setup. I wish they'd do the same with their f/4 zooms, though, releasing an uncompromised GM lineup of f/4 zooms.

[jrsforums]

On the video side it has 8K, but with 8K one needs at least 60fps to make movement fluent...
Like to see the 8stop Vr...and dynamic range etc...
At least they have a better body now for the good lenses they have produced.

More 8k problems...
https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-has-serious-overheating-issues-in-both-4k-and-8k/

[gkroeger]

The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 are due for Mk II versions, being two of the first three GM lenses released (the 85/1.4 is not typically used for subjects where sharpness is the main criterion), and judging by recent GM lenses, I'd expect them to be super-sharp (my current 24-70 is very sharp, but I had to go through four copies to get it). Certainly wouldn't mind if they all cost as much as the new 12-24 if they're all prime-sharp, with no compromises made to reduce cost - a set of them would make an ideal general photography setup. I wish they'd do the same with their f/4 zooms, though, releasing an uncompromised GM lineup of f/4 zooms.

+1
Sony really needs to revisit all of their early zooms!

[Paulo Bizarro]

So, more like a A7r4 with lower resolution and higher frame rate, then.

I guess it's kind of reflected in the naming. R6 = 6D, R5 = 5D. I'll be on the lookout for an R1...

Still, it's a step in the right direction. Sony needs competition in the mirrorless space to push them harder, and, without an AF system to match the A9, it almost doesn't matter what the other specs are..

I like the way Sony has been going with its recent GM lenses. The 12-24/2.8 looks pretty spectacular. The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 are due for Mk II versions, being two of the first three GM lenses released (the 85/1.4 is not typically used for subjects where sharpness is the main criterion), and judging by recent GM lenses, I'd expect them to be super-sharp (my current 24-70 is very sharp, but I had to go through four copies to get it). Certainly wouldn't mind if they all cost as much as the new 12-24 if they're all prime-sharp, with no compromises made to reduce cost - a set of them would make an ideal general photography setup. I wish they'd do the same with their f/4 zooms, though, releasing an uncompromised GM lineup of f/4 zooms.

I think there will be some time before a "R1" shows up. The "action" pro market is dominated by Canon 1D and Nikon D5 plus the big fast teles. They will not change until they are convinced.

[BernardLanguillier]

+1
Sony really needs to revisit all of their early zooms!

On the other hand
- they are not that old
- Sony tried very hard to make them the best such lenses on the market to convince DSLR shooters to change over
- Sony had plenty of experience designing such lenses
- they were clearly priced as if they were the best

So until they release a competitive high end zoom we don’t know if the constraints of the mount enable them to be at the same level as Canon/Nikon.

They are some great primes for FE mount though and my many Sony friends have all become prime shooters.

Cheers,
Bernard

[hogloff]

I think there will be some time before a "R1" shows up. The "action" pro market is dominated by Canon 1D and Nikon D5 plus the big fast teles. They will not change until they are convinced.

But the A9 is used in all sorts of photography situations from sports and bird photography to weddings and into places where a silent shutter is required such as theatres. I think you are a bit narrow focused if you think these high end cameras are only for action sports.

[shadowblade]

On the other hand
- they are not that old
- Sony tried very hard to make them the best such lenses on the market to convince DSLR shooters to change over
- Sony had plenty of experience designing such lenses
- they were clearly priced as if they were the best

So until they release a competitive high end zoom we don’t know if the constraints of the mount enable them to be at the same level as Canon/Nikon.

They are some great primes for FE mount though and my many Sony friends have all become prime shooters.

Cheers,
Bernard

Given the pace of mirrorless development since 2013, they're pretty old. Also, they were designed with a different intent to current design. Originally, the GM series was designed with bokeh rendering in mind, not necessarily ultimate resolution. And the 24-70 GM and 70-200 GM definitely have among the smoothest out-of-focus rendering out of lenses in their class, so they certainly fulfilled their design intent at the time. But the design intent of GM lenses has changed over the years.

Compare and contrast the 100-400 GM. Unlike the original batch of GM lenses, resolution was a design intent in this lens. Matches the Canon in centre sharpness and beats it in the corners. Also handily beats the 70-200 GM at the same aperture/focal length. Both the Sony and Canon beat anything Nikon has in that class.

And, looking at the new 12-24/2.8 GM, they've now done the same thing here - still waiting on formal tests, but it seems to beat anything else in that class (Canon 11-24L, Nikon 14-24, Sigma 12-24 and 14-24).

The mount is obviously not a constraining factor - not unless you want to get in to f/0.8 lenses or something. After all, the Sigma 105/1.4 works perfectly well (optically) on E-mount, as does the designed-for-E-mount Sigma 35/1.2.

You can't judge a system by its first few products - only its mature offerings. The Canon R is crap. They've now refined it with a second generation. The A7r was useless for anything other than landscapes or still studio setups. The A7r2 improved on this, and, from the A9 and A7r3 onwards, the system has really matured. Same goes with the lenses. Look at what Sigma used to produce before the Art and Sport lines came out.

[shadowblade]

But the A9 is used in all sorts of photography situations from sports and bird photography to weddings and into places where a silent shutter is required such as theatres. I think you are a bit narrow focused if you think these high end cameras are only for action sports.

Also, there is a small, but increasing number of A9 bodies seen on the sidelines of arenas.

Part of this is due to the longevity of bodies and supertele lenses. If you already have an arsenal of relatively-new Canon superteles, it makes no sense to change them over to Sonys until they've served their time. without a compelling reason to do so. Particularly since Sony's supertele lineup isn't exactly comprehensive yet. But the dynamic will change as mirrorless takes over - Sony's supertele lineup is lean compared with Canon/Nikon SLR offerings, but they are way ahead of what Canon/Nikon offers in their mirrorless lineups.

[jwlimages]

So, back to the original topic, Canon's R5...

No GPS at all? What's the deal here, was GPS just a gimmick to be added temporarily, and now it's irrelevant? I found it quite useful on my 5D MK IV, and am disappointed to see it get dropped.

John

[shadowblade]

So, back to the original topic, Canon's R5...

No GPS at all? What's the deal here, was GPS just a gimmick to be added temporarily, and now it's irrelevant? I found it quite useful on my 5D MK IV, and am disappointed to see it get dropped.

John

Can you add on a module for that?

Never used GPS on a camera - I tend to just chart locations on maps - so no idea how useful it might be or what to use it for.

[Paulo Bizarro]

But the A9 is used in all sorts of photography situations from sports and bird photography to weddings and into places where a silent shutter is required such as theatres. I think you are a bit narrow focused if you think these high end cameras are only for action sports.

No doubt Sony have made headways into the pro market. But even in press conferences the clacking of DSLRs is still predominant:)

It is a market with big inertia and where familiarity with gear is paramount. It takes a lot of convicing arguments to make a change.

[hogloff]

No doubt Sony have made headways into the pro market. But even in press conferences the clacking of DSLRs is still predominant:)

It is a market with big inertia and where familiarity with gear is paramount. It takes a lot of convicing arguments to make a change.

Also in a declining market like the pro photography market, it just does not make financial sense to spend a lot of money switching systems from something that still works. I know a few wedding photographers and they are still using the same gear they did 5 years ago.

[kers]

Also in a declining market like the pro photography market, it just does not make financial sense to spend a lot of money switching systems from something that still works. I know a few wedding photographers and they are still using the same gear they did 5 years ago.

+1 and in effect nothing much changes;
Silent shooting is now part of the new DSLR's. Lenses are very good / good enough; only a few make it to be printed large...almost all end up on screen.
I wonder what is the refreshing speed of a D6, but know i can make make silent photos with my d850 in many circumstances...
To change your workflow, spend a lot of money to end up with a camera with new quircks and only few benefits is not very sensible.
Alle depends on your type of photography...

[scooby70]

On the other hand
- they are not that old
- Sony tried very hard to make them the best such lenses on the market to convince DSLR shooters to change over
- Sony had plenty of experience designing such lenses
- they were clearly priced as if they were the best

So until they release a competitive high end zoom we don’t know if the constraints of the mount enable them to be at the same level as Canon/Nikon.

They are some great primes for FE mount though and my many Sony friends have all become prime shooters.

Cheers,
Bernard

What are the constraints of the mount?

As far as I know the only accepted limitation is that the Sony mount is limited to something like f0.6 which isn't going to happen on any of these systems anyway. (I have two f1.2 lenses which is the widest aperture I'm going to want and they both work fine on my Sony A7.) There may also be a limitation on the amount of sensor movement for IS purposes but other than these two things (and IMO the maximum aperture limitation is completely irrelevant) what are the suspected constraints of the Sony mount?