US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[hogloff]

Yes, it my perogative to believe news that is proven true and discard the rest.  I guess you use a different formula.

Can you disprove the article...or do you walk around with a half empty glass all the time?

Put it another way...can you prove even half of what Trumps says as being true...as there are fact checkers that disprove much of what Trump claims.

[Alan Klein]

Like I mentioned to Craig, that is what was reported by the New York Times. You can chose to believe or or not.

Did the NYT ask the So. Dakota governor what was discussed?  What did she say?  A simple phone call. 

[faberryman]

Yes, it my perogative to believe news that is proven true and discard the rest.  I guess you use a different formula.

I don't know what your standard of proof is for news stories like this. I can easily see you not believing anything in the news. There is only so much time in the day to check, cross-check, corroborate, and confirm using multiple trusted sources that were actual eye witnesses. I'd never get out of the driveway in the morning.

[Alan Klein]

Can you disprove the article...or do you walk around with a half empty glass all the time?

Put it another way...can you prove even half of what Trumps says as being true...as there are fact checkers that disprove much of what Trump claims.

The NY Times is making a charge to embarrass the president right before a presidential election.  They should have asked the parties involved what transpired because even if something was mentioned, it could have been a joke.  Trump does that a lot and the press quotes him directly knowing he said it tongue in cheek, just like I joke around here.  You guys fall for it hook, line and sinker.  The NYT has done this before against candidates they didn't like.  This is nothing.  Wait until October and watch the charges fly. 

[Alan Klein]

I don't know what your standard of proof is for news stories like this. I can easily see you not believing anything in the news. There is only so much time in the day to check, cross-check, corroborate, and confirm using multiple trusted sources that were actual eye witnesses. I'd never get out of the driveway in the morning.

Proper reporting would have required that the governor be called and asked to confirm or deny it.  Then the paper should report that.  After all, they weren't there.  They using second hand hearsay information.  The Times used to have higher standards.  They've given up on fair reporting and joined cable news in a race to the bottom for journalism.

[faberryman]

Proper reporting would have required that the governor be called and asked to confirm or deny it.  Then the paper should report that.  After all, they weren't there.  They using second hand hearsay information.  The Times used to have higher standards.  They've given up on fair reporting and joined cable news in a race to the bottom for journalism.

What if the governor lies about it? I mean she is a Trump supporter so she could just be covering for him. Perhaps you should at least ask her for proof she's not lying, and then double check and confirm her proof. I'm not sure how you would prove her proof though. Perhaps her corroborating witnesses are all lying too. I really have no idea how far the conspiracy extends. You may never get to the bottom of it.

I read a story that 100 people were arrested and 13 police officers were injured in the looting in Chicago last night. I don't know if it is true or not. Was there really looting in Chicago last night? With COVID still on the rampage, I'm not planning on flying up to Chicago to chase that story down. I guess I'll just put that in the discard pile. Why did I waste time even reading about it? Why do I bother reading or listening to the news at all? I'll never be able to prove all the articles I read. Too many lying liars lying about lying liars lying. And they are out to cheat me.

But everything that comes out of Trump's mouth is the gospel truth, except for the occasional exaggeration or aspirational statement.

[Alan Klein]

What if the governor lies about it? Perhaps you should at least ask her for proof she's not lying, and then double check and confirm her proof. I mean she is a Trump supporter so she could just be covering for him. I have no idea how far the conspiracy extends.

You don;t know that.  Regardles, proper reporting and standard practice would be to ask the governor and the president.  Otherwise you have a report where no one is identified where the info came from and no one was allowed to deny or confirm the story.  It' sjust put out there to embarrass the president.

The other problem is that Maggie Haberman, the co-writer of the article, is a Trump hater.  She's constantly on CNN and other anti-Trump cable stations showing her distaste for him.  So her appearance on cable knocking Trump all the time diminishes her trustworthiness when she writes for the NY Times. Frankly, the paper shouldn't let her appear on cable.  The whole process is incestuous and diminishes the Times' authority. Previous reporters have damaged them in the past with embellishments and downright lies being reported.  I'm surprised they put up with her doing cable shows.  It shows just how much the editors hate Trump as well. 

[Alan Klein]

Pelosi blinked.

Pelosi, Mnuchin signal openness to resume aid talks
https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-mnuchin-signal-openness-resume-182116838.html

[hogloff]

Proper reporting would have required that the governor be called and asked to confirm or deny it.  Then the paper should report that.  After all, they weren't there.  They using second hand hearsay information.  The Times used to have higher standards.  They've given up on fair reporting and joined cable news in a race to the bottom for journalism.

How do you know how much follow up there was to verify the story? Your bias just assumes there was none.

[hogloff]

Pelosi blinked.

Pelosi, Mnuchin signal openness to resume aid talks
https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-mnuchin-signal-openness-resume-182116838.html

It's just a game...but people keep dying. Tick, toc...

[Craig Lamson]

Can you disprove the article...or do you walk around with a half empty glass all the time?

Put it another way...can you prove even half of what Trumps says as being true...as there are fact checkers that disprove much of what Trump claims.

I don't need to disprove it.  Its the media's job to PROVE their story.

As for Trump, as usual you move the goalposts.

[Craig Lamson]

Proper reporting would have required that the governor be called and asked to confirm or deny it.  Then the paper should report that.  After all, they weren't there.  They using second hand hearsay information.  The Times used to have higher standards.  They've given up on fair reporting and joined cable news in a race to the bottom for journalism.

The so called "source", if they were actually privy to the alleged converstion, would have known exactly who placed the call and to whom the call was directed.  Those facts are glaringly missing from the "news" the NYT printed.

[Craig Lamson]

How do you know how much follow up there was to verify the story? Your bias just assumes there was none.

I've looked, have you?

[hogloff]

I don't need to disprove it.  Its the media's job to PROVE their story.

As for Trump, as usual you move the goalposts.

Rather than ducking, hiding and running Craig...just answer the question. How do you know Trump is ever telling the truth?

[jeremyrh]

it could have been a joke.  Trump does that a lot and the press quotes him directly knowing he said it tongue in cheek, just like I joke around here.

Like his joke about passing Veteran’s Choice. That sure got a lot of laughs!!  Not sure that was quite the response he was aiming for, but hey.

[PeterAit]

In 2019, Trump replaced Obama's 2014 Veterans Choice Act with a better one called the VA Mission Act. The left wing news does not want to recognize how Trump is cleaning up a defective Veterans Administration that has plague the country for years.  Vets had been dying en masse waiting for care and appointments with VA doctors. It was a disgrace.  You no longer read about that kind of stuff because Trump cleaned up a lot of that delinquency.  Just like the press ignores how Trump cleaned up ISIS that Obama left, they don't want to acknowledge any of Trump's successes.  I'd walk out of the news conference too if I was challenged with a set-up question that tried to embarrass me.  The left wing press is just playing political games. 

This nonsense about long waits at the VA is long over. A JAMA study (1917) showed that waits for new appointments in certain specialties were 12 days SHORTER at the VA than in the private sector. This is just one of those bugaboos that the right spreads to try to delegitimize government programs. You can of course find individual horror stories about long waits with disastrous consequences, both at the VA and outside of it.

But, so what. The point I was making is that Trump repeatedly lies about silly things. If he signed an act that is helping veterans, let him boast about that. Nooo...he's got to boast--150 times--about signing an act that he didn't sign. And since when has being caught in a lie ever embarrassed Trump?

[Alan Klein]

How do you know how much follow up there was to verify the story? Your bias just assumes there was none.

The article  didn't say they tried to verify.  If they called, they would have reported that either the governor did not respond, confirmed it or denied it.  The article was silent.

[Alan Klein]

This nonsense about long waits at the VA is long over. A JAMA study (1917) showed that waits for new appointments in certain specialties were 12 days SHORTER at the VA than in the private sector. This is just one of those bugaboos that the right spreads to try to delegitimize government programs. You can of course find individual horror stories about long waits with disastrous consequences, both at the VA and outside of it.

But, so what. The point I was making is that Trump repeatedly lies about silly things. If he signed an act that is helping veterans, let him boast about that. Nooo...he's got to boast--150 times--about signing an act that he didn't sign. And since when has being caught in a lie ever embarrassed Trump?

Peter, he created his own act last year in 2019 to improve Veteran Administration procedures.  His plan superseded the Obama plan of 2014.  He has his own plan to brag about.  Why lie about a plan that was created in 2014 before he became president?  Your whole point makes no sense.

[faberryman]

The article  didn't say they tried to verify.  If they called, they would have reported that either the governor did not respond, confirmed it or denied it.  The article was silent.

Did you actually read the NYT article? I didn’t think you forked out for a subscription.

[Craig Lamson]

Rather than ducking, hiding and running Craig...just answer the question. How do you know Trump is ever telling the truth?

Why are you trying to change the subject?  Can't cover the bullsnit from the NYT's anymore?