Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 258049 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #440 on: August 10, 2020, 05:59:48 pm »

It's just a game...but people keep dying. Tick, toc...
So tell Pelosi to pass legislation to get the money to the unemployed.  She and the Democrats are holding it up. Otherwise Trump is going to get all the votes from these people in November.  Of course, Pelosi can also sue the president to prevent him from distributing the money as being unconstitutional. I'm sure those same unemployed voters who can't pay their rent would appreciate her doing that. 

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #441 on: August 10, 2020, 06:06:27 pm »

Did you actually read the NYT article? I didn’t think you forked out for a subscription.
I read two other articles from other media that referred to the NYT's article.  Neither mentioned the reporters checking with the people involved.

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #442 on: August 10, 2020, 06:10:02 pm »

You don;t know that.  Regardles, proper reporting and standard practice would be to ask the governor and the president.

Why ask President Trump? He is going to lie about it. And the governor is a Trump supporter so she’ll lie about it to cover for him.

Obviously what we need is a congressional committee to look into it. With subpoena power.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #443 on: August 10, 2020, 06:21:00 pm »

Why ask President Trump? He is going to lie about it. And the governor is a Trump supporter so she’ll lie about it to cover for him.

Obviously what we need is a congressional committee to look into it. With subpoena power.
Otherwise it looks like a hit piece, which it is. By not giving the persons accused a chance to respond, the NY Times acts like the National Enquirer.

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #444 on: August 10, 2020, 06:25:13 pm »

The NY Times is making a charge to embarrass the president right before a presidential election.

Why would this story embarrass the president?
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hogloff

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems),
« Reply #445 on: August 10, 2020, 06:36:52 pm »

Why are you trying to change the subject?  Can't cover the bullsnit from the NYT's anymore?

Just answer my questions Craig rather than hiding under a stone. How do you ever know Trump is telling the truth. He's been caught lying so often, you can't believe a single word coming from his mouth. How do you know you verify anything he says?

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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #446 on: August 10, 2020, 06:38:05 pm »

I read two other articles from other media that referred to the NYT's article.  Neither mentioned the reporters checking with the people involved.

So you really don't know if your previous statement is true. You just made it up.

The article  didn't say they tried to verify.  If they called, they would have reported that either the governor did not respond, confirmed it or denied it.  The article was silent.

If you want to comment on an article, read it.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:24:12 pm by faberryman »
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hogloff

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #447 on: August 10, 2020, 06:39:20 pm »

Otherwise it looks like a hit piece, which it is. By not giving the persons accused a chance to respond, the NY Times acts like the National Enquirer.

Are you trying to tell me you'd believe anything Trump would say if he was asked? If so...then I guess we are done. You are too far gone down that koolaid path.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #448 on: August 10, 2020, 06:42:26 pm »

I'm watching Trump's press conference on TV. He looks like he is getting thin on top. I'm not sure how much longer this comb-over thing is going to help.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems),
« Reply #449 on: August 10, 2020, 06:42:58 pm »

Just answer my questions Craig rather than hiding under a stone. How do you ever know Trump is telling the truth. He's been caught lying so often, you can't believe a single word coming from his mouth. How do you know you verify anything he says?

Why should I answer you?  You will simply move the goalposts again.  Why did you move them in the first place? 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #450 on: August 10, 2020, 06:44:39 pm »

I read two other articles from other media that referred to the NYT's article.  Neither mentioned the reporters checking with the people involved.

Of course they didn't check. They just ran with a rumor and called it fact.  Its no wonder the media gets such low ratings. 
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #451 on: August 10, 2020, 06:46:13 pm »

Are you trying to tell me you'd believe anything Trump would say if he was asked? If so...then I guess we are done. You are too far gone down that koolaid path.

Of course he believes everything Trump says. He's a member of the cult. He's even got the secret decoder ring. It's how he tells us what Trump really means when he says something. Otherwise, nobody would have any idea - outright lie, joke, exaggeration, aspirational statement.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:11:09 pm by faberryman »
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Chris Kern

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #452 on: August 10, 2020, 06:58:55 pm »

. . . you have a report where no one is identified where the info came from and no one was allowed to deny or confirm the story.  It' sjust put out there to embarrass the president.

The "debate" in this forum about the New York Times story strikes me as rather confused―wholly apart from the predictable bickering about the accuracy of the Times' reporting.

First of all, the subject of the Times report wasn't Trump's apparent desire to have his face added to the monument on Mount Rushmore; it was that Kristi Noem, the governor of South Dakota (where the monument is located), met with Vice President Mike Pence in response to speculation that she was trying to replace him as Trump's vice presidential candidate:

Quote
Ms. Noem came to the White House . . . to meet not with Mr. Trump, but with Vice President Mike Pence.  Word had circulated through the Trump administration that she was ingratiating herself with the president, fueling suspicions that there might have been a discussion about her serving as his running mate in November.  Ms. Noem assured Mr. Pence that she wanted to help the ticket however she could, according to an official present.

The primary source for the claim that Trump had expressed interest in being carved into Mount Rushmore wasn't the New York Times, but a report published by the Argus Leader of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, in April, 2018, quoting Governor (then candidate) Noem herself:

Quote
. . . after President Trump was sworn in, he relayed his dream of actually being carved on the mountain, according to South Dakota Rep. Kristi Noem.

Noem said the two struck up a conversation in their first meeting at the Oval Office.

"He said, 'Kristi, come on over here. Shake my hand,'" Noem said. "I shook his hand, and I said, 'Mr. President, you should come to South Dakota sometime. We have Mount Rushmore.' And he goes, 'Do you know it's my dream to have my face on Mount Rushmore?' "

Noem thought he was joking.

"I started laughing," she said. "He wasn't laughing, so he was totally serious."

Noem, who is running for South Dakota Governor in the Republican primary in June, relayed the story to Vermillion native Mitchell Olson while the two were filming a segment for Olson's South Dakota edition of carpool karaoke.

The Times did add a few minor details to the Trump-on-Mount-Rushmore story:

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. . . last year, a White House aide reached out to the governor’s office with a question, according to a Republican official familiar with the conversation: What’s the process to add additional presidents to Mount Rushmore?

So last month, when the president arrived in the Black Hills for the star-spangled spectacle he had pined for, Ms. Noem made the most of it.

Introducing Mr. Trump against the floodlit backdrop of his carved predecessors, the governor played to the president’s craving for adulation by noting that in just three days more than 125,000 people had signed up for only 7,500 seats; she likened him to Theodore Roosevelt, a leader who “braves the dangers of the arena”; and she mimicked the president’s rhetoric by scorning protesters who she said were seeking to discredit the country’s founders.

In private, the efforts to charm Mr. Trump were more pointed, according to a person familiar with the episode: Ms. Noem greeted him with a four-foot replica of Mount Rushmore that included a fifth presidential likeness: his.

Finally, while Trump denied suggesting that his face be installed on Mount Rushmore ("Fake News"), in the same Trupperance, he said it would be a good idea.

Quote
. . . based on all of the many things accomplished during the first 3 1/2 years, perhaps more than any other Presidency, sounds like a good idea to me!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:14:50 pm by Chris Kern »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #453 on: August 10, 2020, 07:19:34 pm »

Does anyone seriously believe that Trump didn't ask how to get himself up on Mt. Rushmore? It's so Trumpian. I figured Trump supporters would respond: "Goddamn right he did." Are you guys losing your enthusiasm?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:27:25 pm by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #454 on: August 10, 2020, 07:29:24 pm »

The "debate" in this forum about the New York Times story strikes me as rather confused―wholly apart from the predictable bickering about the accuracy of the Times' reporting.

First of all, the subject of the Times report wasn't Trump's apparent desire to have his face added to the monument on Mount Rushmore; it was that Kristi Noem, the governor of South Dakota (where the monument is located), met with Vice President Mike Pence in response to speculation that she was trying to replace him as Trump's vice presidential candidate:

The primary source for the claim that Trump had expressed interest in being carved into Mount Rushmore wasn't the New York Times, but a report published by the Argus Leader of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, in April, 2018, quoting Governor (then candidate) Noem herself:

The Times did add a few minor details to the Trump-on-Mount-Rushmore story:

Finally, while Trump denied suggesting that his face be installed on Mount Rushmore ("Fake News"), in the same Trupperance, he said it would be a good idea.

You need to get up to speed Chris, because despite of your reply you completely missed the reason all of this got started.

The post that started this contained this link:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/mount-rushmore-trump-south-dakota/index.html

Please note the headline. 

New York Times: White House reached out to South Dakota governor about adding Trump to Mount Rushmore


No one should be surprised that Trump likes the idea of being the next face  on the mountain, but the thrust of the OP’s link was the alleged call from the White House.  And that headline came out of the NYT article. 

Pence and Noem... Cannon fodder for the liberal media hacks.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #455 on: August 10, 2020, 07:57:47 pm »

So tell Pelosi to pass legislation to get the money to the unemployed.  She and the Democrats are holding it up.

When did the Senate Republicans get back from vacation?
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hogloff

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems),
« Reply #456 on: August 10, 2020, 08:14:03 pm »

Why should I answer you?  You will simply move the goalposts again.  Why did you move them in the first place?

Yep...quack...quack...quack.

Just blindly take whatever comes out of Trump's mouth as gospel. The herder leading the sheep.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #457 on: August 10, 2020, 08:28:35 pm »

Peter, he created his own act last year in 2019 to improve Veteran Administration procedures.  His plan superseded the Obama plan of 2014.  He has his own plan to brag about.  Why lie about a plan that was created in 2014 before he became president?  Your whole point makes no sense.

I think the point is that he is lying about Veterans Choice. Perhaps you can explain why?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 10:24:06 am by faberryman »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #458 on: August 10, 2020, 09:19:57 pm »

..and the gullible fall for it hook line and sinker.

Gotta love it.  There are few as gullible as those who believe the bullshit Trump spews.
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hogloff

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #459 on: August 10, 2020, 09:34:27 pm »

Gotta love it.  There are few as gullible as those who believe the bullshit Trump spews.

Unfortunately they can't tell when they are being lied to. Yep...hook, line and sinker.
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