US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

Read the thread.  I'm not explaining it further.

Doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Alan Klein]

They can if they want to. They just usually don't comment as a matter of policy. But as you noted, sometimes they don't follow policy.

That's tortured logic.  Of course they can if they want too.  They just don't want too. 

[Alan Klein]

So explain to me how exactly Bart "wasted" his vote. He was just guessing along with everyone else whether Trump or Biden will be president on January 20, 2021. It is like someone flipped a coin and asked "Heads or tails?" If you answer heads and it turns out to be tails, you haven't really wasted you vote, have you? So that's why I thought you were talking about the election and not the poll. Seemed reasonable to me at the time. I mean you are always confusing where people come from around here, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility that you had forgetten that Bart was from the Netherlands. You've told me I am from all sorts of places.

And I don't recall Bart saying he thought Trump would not leave the White House at the end of his term, but I may be mistaken.

Ok  I'll let you off the hook.  Read post 3727 from Dutchman Bart Van Der Wolf as to why he was fooled into voting for Trump in the thread's poll by the anti-Trump press.

[faberryman]

That's tortured logic.  Of course they can if they want too.  They just don't want too.

Hardly tortured logic. You said they couldn't comment. I just pointed out that actually they can comment, but usually don't. Just adding a little clarity.

[Alan Klein]

Hardly tortured logic. You said they couldn't comment. I just pointed out that actually they can comment, but usually don't. Just adding a little clarity.

I don't think they can comment. The FBI works for the DOJ.   I believe the DOJ's directive is not to comment especially within three months of an election.  Comey thought he was God and did what he wanted. The FBI is not suppose to tell the public the results of their investigations.  That's up to the DOJ.  Comey's ego told him he was in charge, not the Attorney General. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Ok  I'll let you off the hook.  Read post 3727 from Dutchman Bart Van Der Wolf as to why he was fooled into voting for Trump in the thread's poll by the anti-Trump press.

I'm a Dutchman, born and raised in the Netherlands.

I was talking about probabilities and likelihoods, and I see a few possible scenarios, in no particular order:
1. Trump wins the (popular and) electoral college vote by November 3rd.
2. Biden wins the (popular and) electoral college vote by November 3rd.

Note: It is possible to lose the popular vote and still win the electoral college vote, which is ultimately the only thing that matters in the US system for winning a presidential election.

The issue that will most likely make it difficult to predict the final outcome by November 3rd, is the huge number of votes by mail. It seems that Biden is more likely to benefit from this situation, especially if scenario 2 is achieved by November 3rd.

The most unpredictable situation will arise if scenario 1 materializes, and the mail-in votes flip the outcome to scenario 2. Trump is likely to contest that to the extreme. How extreme? We will see, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the outcome that Trump has been preparing for.

[Peter McLennan]

Nothing astounding about it at all. Many people feel that way.  And they vote.

The ‘astounding” part is that Trump referred to Fauci and other healthcare professionals as “idiots”, not that people are tired of Covid.

We’re all tired of Covid.

[Alan Klein]

I'm a Dutchman, born and raised in the Netherlands.

I was talking about probabilities and likelihoods, and I see a few possible scenarios, in no particular order:
1. Trump wins the (popular and) electoral college vote by November 3rd.
2. Biden wins the (popular and) electoral college vote by November 3rd.

Note: It is possible to lose the popular vote and still win the electoral college vote, which is ultimately the only thing that matters in the US system for winning a presidential election.

The issue that will most likely make it difficult to predict the final outcome by November 3rd, is the huge number of votes by mail. It seems that Biden is more likely to benefit from this situation, especially if scenario 2 is achieved by November 3rd.

The most unpredictable situation will arise if scenario 1 materializes, and the mail-in votes flip the outcome to scenario 2. Trump is likely to contest that to the extreme. How extreme? We will see, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the outcome that Trump has been preparing for.

With all the assumption that Republicans are trying to limit the vote, it's really the Democrats who are doing it.  Way more Democrats have already voted by mail.  Republicans wait to vote in person on election day.  Because of Covid, democrats are shutting down their state's mean to easily get to the voting booths claiming they need a covid lockdown.  So it's Democrats playing games and republicans who will be denied their right to vote. 

[LesPalenik]

Ok  I'll let you off the hook.  Read post 3727 from Dutchman Bart Van Der Wolf as to why he was fooled into voting for Trump in the thread's poll by the anti-Trump press.

More interesting fact is that only 14 people voted in the attached survey. Does it mean that this discussion is followed only by a very small group of people or is it followed by more than 14 lurkers who just couldn't be bothered by sharing their guesses for election outcome?

[Alan Klein]

More interesting fact is that only 14 people voted in the attached survey. Does it mean that this discussion is followed only by a very small group of people or is it followed by more than 14 lurkers who just couldn't be bothered by sharing their guesses for election outcome?

They're all secret Trump supporters who like to keep their opinions to themselves.

[faberryman]

I don't think they can comment. The FBI works for the DOJ.   I believe the DOJ's directive is not to comment especially within three months of an election.  Comey thought he was God and did what he wanted. The FBI is not suppose to tell the public the results of their investigations.  That's up to the DOJ.  Comey's ego told him he was in charge, not the Attorney General.

Again, as I said before, they can comment, but usually don't, because that wouldn't be following policy. Comey commented on the Hillary thing, so that proves they can can and did comment. What is so hard to understand? It's the English language after all.

And Barr has commented on a couple on ongoing investigations against Trump's adversaries, so that also proves they they can comment too. How would we know about the Dunham investigation and all the rest, if they can't comment on it.

There is a policy around my house that everyone leaves their muddy shoes outside the door. But I can, and have, walked around the house in muddy shoes. My wife yells at me for not following policy, but sometimes I forget to follow policy, as evidenced by my wife yelling at me and the mud all over the floor.  Just because it is policy, does mean you can't do it anyway. I learned the hard way.

The next time your wife tells you you can't do something, go ahead and do it anyway, so you understand you can do it after all. Maybe go buy a gun or something.

What is baffling is that you keep saying they can't comment, and yet you even admitted they can comment a couple of posts ago.

That's tortured logic.  Of course they can if they want too.  They just don't want too.

[faberryman]

Ok  I'll let you off the hook.  Read post 3727 from Dutchman Bart Van Der Wolf as to why he was fooled into voting for Trump in the thread's poll by the anti-Trump press.

Is there a difference between being fooled into voting and wasting your vote?

[Craig Lamson]

The ‘astounding” part is that Trump referred to Fauci and other healthcare professionals as “idiots”, not that people are tired of Covid.

We’re all tired of Covid.

Maybe he's right. Reading the words you wrote, "People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots."

[faberryman]

With all the assumption that Republicans are trying to limit the vote, it's really the Democrats who are doing it.  Way more Democrats have already voted by mail.  Republicans wait to vote in person on election day.  Because of Covid, democrats are shutting down their state's mean to easily get to the voting booths claiming they need a covid lockdown.  So it's Democrats playing games and republicans who will be denied their right to vote.

Okay. Do you feel better now that you have said it.

[Alan Klein]

Again, as I said before, they can comment, but usually don't, because that wouldn't be following policy. Comey commented on the Hillary thing, so that proves they can comment, and did comment. What is so hard to understand? It's the English language after all.

And Barr has commented on a couple on ongoing investigations against Trump's adversaries, so that also proves they they can comment too. How would we know about the Dunham investigation and all the rest, if they can't comment on it.

There is a policy around my house that everyone leaves their muddy shoes outside the door. But I can, and have, walked around the house in muddy shoes. My wife yells at me for not following policy, but sometimes I forget to follow policy, as evidenced by my wife yelling at me and the mud all over the floor.  Just because it is policy, does mean you can't do it anyway. I learned the hard way.

The next time your wife tells you you can't do something, go ahead and do it anyway, so you understand you can do it after all. Maybe go buy a gun or something.

What is baffling is that you keep saying the can't comment, and yet you even admitted they can comment a couple of posts ago for Christ's sake.

I understand Melania yelled at Donald when he dragged in mud into the White House's Lincoln bedroom.  Of course he had the maid clean it up.  It's good to be president. 

[faberryman]

More interesting fact is that only 14 people voted in the attached survey. Does it mean that this discussion is followed only by a very small group of people or is it followed by more than 14 lurkers who just couldn't be bothered by sharing their guesses for election outcome?

No. Most people know it's a close election and could go either way, and don't want to have to later admit they guessed wrong, even to themselves. It's got something to do with psychology, I think.

[faberryman]

I understand Melania yelled at Donald when he dragged in mud into the White House's Lincoln bedroom.  Of course he had the maid clean it up.  It's good to be president.

I wouldn't have the job for a million bucks. And what was Trump doing in the Lincoln bedroom? Don't tell me, Michael Cohen took care of it.

[Alan Klein]

I wouldn't have the job for a million bucks. And what was Trump doing in the Lincoln bedroom? Don't tell me, Michael Cohen took care of it.

Well, the sleazy Clintons, when Bill was president, would rent out the Lincoln bedroom for the night to anyone who contributed to their campaign over a certain amount.  When they left the presidency, they took the china and silverware claiming it was a gift to them and didn't belong to the American government.  They were forced to return the stuff.  Gad.  Can you imagine if Hillary won? 

[TechTalk]

The new president moves in on Jan 21st, 2021,

January 20th

[faberryman]

Well, the sleazy Clintons, when Bill was president, would rent out the Lincoln bedroom for the night to anyone who contributed to their campaign over a certain amount.  When they left the presidency, they took the china and silverware claiming it was a gift to them and didn't belong to the American government.  They were forced to return the stuff.  Gad.  Can you imagine if Hillary won?

A friend of mine was a friend of Bill Clinton. I think they studied together at Oxford. Anyway, he and his wife visited Bill and Hillary at the White House, and stayed in the Lincoln bedroom. They didn't have to make a contribution. So I guess sometimes the Clintons  were sleazy and sometimes they weren't.

Don't you have anything better to do than continue with the disparaging statements against Bill and Hillary Clinton, even if they are true? I mean it has been 20 years since they stole the china and had to return it. Do you really carry around all this anger and resentment with you as you go through life. Consider moving on and having new experiences. For example, learn a new skill, like how to use the new 4x5 camera you bought before the pandemic. I think it was a Chamonix so it's top of the line. I think you said you got three or four nice lenses too. I guess you would do that, but you derive more pleasure from complaining about Bill and Hillary Clinton than learning how to use your new camera. Maybe you should just sell it, and go on a speaking tour about all the bad stuff Bill and Hillary Clinton did.

I can imagine if Hillary won. I wouldn't have had to suffer through the last four years of Trump. I mean it might have been worse with Hillary, but at least it would have been a different kind of worse.