US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[JoeKitchen]

And 4 years ago today, Hillary tweeted ...

[Peter McLennan]

All things that are issues with solar and wind, unless of course the materials just pop out of thin air when needed and disappear when at the end of their life, instead of, you know, requiring mining for raw materials and going into landfills at end of life. 

Solar panels, last I checked, contain lead, cadmium and other heavy metals, that are elements btw and do not break down. 

No, they don't break down.  Elements can be re-used.  Just like many of the materials in cellphones and other electrical devices.

I also might add, it has been documented that both wind and solar farms use more raw materials than other power plants, which would only increase the issues you presented if we went full retard on this. 

Let's see the documentation.

Insofar as the birds, perhaps the jury is still out, but it is a major contention of environmentalist around the globe, such as Michael Shellenberger. 

Your "jury" perhaps.  Let's see the documentation. 

Shellenburger is pro-nuclear.  Not something I disagree with. Google LFTR.

One last thing, and I have no idea how much this effects fly ash usage from coal plants, but if you talk to any engineer specializing in concrete (and I would suggest avoiding the conversation or otherwise you will get sucked into a two to three hour lecture on something that cant possibly be more boring, but if you did) they are having having difficultly finding a different source of ash for concrete given the closures of coal plants.

Let's see the documentation.  Why does fly ash present such a disposal problem?  Shouldn't it all be gobbled up by the concrete industry?

[JoeKitchen]

No, they don't break down.  Elements can be re-used.  Just like many of the materials in cellphones and other electrical devices.

Let's see the documentation.

Well, Craig just supplied you with an article showing how turbine blades are not recyclable.  Here is one from Forbes on solar panels. 

If Solar Panels Are So Clean, Why Do They Produce So Much Toxic Waste?

Your "jury" perhaps.  Let's see the documentation. 

Shellenburger is pro-nuclear.  Not something I disagree with. Google LFTR.

As am I, because it is a much better alternate then chasing the wind/solar fairy tale. 


Let's see the documentation.  Why does fly ash present such a disposal problem?  Shouldn't it all be gobbled up by the concrete industry?

I did say that I was fully informed on the use of fly ash, so I cant answer this.  Reading comprehension ...

[Peter McLennan]

Oh Craig, stop it with your facts!

I wonder what the total landfill usage is of old hydroelectric dams?  I have a feeling those solid steel turbine blades they replace every now and then are fully recyclable.  But dams are bad.

Those first-generation turbine blades that are /s polluting landfills worldwide /s are complex composites.  Agreed.  Not easily recyclable. Yet.
Wind turbine systems are frequently in the black financially within a year.  The first gen blades are replaced after twenty.  Not a bad rate of return.

The amount of blades dumped is underwhelming:

“Wind turbine blades at the end of their operational life are landfill-safe, unlike the waste from some other energy sources, and represent a small fraction of overall U.S. municipal solid waste,” according to an emailed statement from the group. It pointed to an Electric Power Research Institute study that estimates all blade waste through 2050 would equal roughly .015% of all the municipal solid waste going to landfills in 2015 alone.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills-1.1385125#:~:text=Feb%205%2C%202020-,Wind%20Turbine%20Blades%20Can't%20Be%20Recycled%2C%20So%20They',re%20Piling%20Up%20in%20Landfills&text=(Bloomberg)%20%2D%2D%20A%20wind%20turbine's,t%20just%20be%20hauled%20away.

 

[Peter McLennan]

I did say that I was fully informed on the use of fly ash, so I cant answer this.  Reading comprehension ...

Reading comprehension?  Or writing ability?

[JoeKitchen]

Reading comprehension?  Or writing ability?

Okay, you got me.  Lack of proof reading is another fault of mine; rack it up there with loose and lose. 

[Craig Lamson]

Well, all makes sense. 

Off the topic of cars onto the topic of oil subsidies that Biden wants to get rid of, I just read a large portion of oil subsidies go to poor families in need of heating oil for their house.  What happens when we take those away?  How will they afford oil?  Will they have to switch to electric heat?  Who will pay for the transition and higher costs? 

FYI, extreme cold kills more people in the USA then extreme heat.

Heating is another big issue when we remove fossil fuels.

This source shows only 34% of homes are heated by electric.  Thats a lot of homes that will require all new heating systems. And a lot of people who won't have the money to do it.  Most likely the poor.


https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/heat-and-cool/home-heating-systems

[faberryman]

The facility are not close to bats though, it is location over a 100 miles away from bat habitats.  Once again, you failed to explain this away.

Let me ask you a question: would you have believed me if the research facility was actually 10 miles away? 25 miles? 50 miles? I think you like your conspiracy theory so much it really wouldn't matter where the bats are. And it's not like you have crossed every "t" and dotted every "i" in your conspiracy theory, so I don't why you are complaining.

[JoeKitchen]

Let me ask you a question: would you have believed me if the research facility was actually 10 miles away? 25 miles? 50 miles? I think you like your conspiracy theory so much it really wouldn't matter where the bats are. And it's not like you have crossed every "t" and dotted every "i" in your conspiracy theory, so I don't why you are complaining.

50 miles. 

7 surprising facts about bats

"Bats can travel around 50 miles per night, yet they always manage to get back to their roosting tree (because even bats like to feel at home). Probably all that awesome sonar has something to do with it."

[Alan Goldhammer]

Biden wants to eliminate jobs in the oil industry, around 6 million.

Have you studied the oil industry lately?  BP and Royal Dutch Shell have both announced restructurings amidst a move to more renewable resource approaches.  Exxon has reduced exploration.  Oil prices have dropped worldwide.  Chevron (disclosure I am a shareholder probably to your surprise) is focusing on natural gas exploration and just bought the company that holds most of the eastern Mediterranean Sea fields.  Solar panel installation and wind farm increase yearly with more jobs in that area.  Coal production continues to decrease and under President Trump another 30K jobs were last in that industry.

Energy jobs will ebb and flow, moving to areas of opportunity.  The US will continue to produce oil and natural gas and coal will gradually disappear as a major energy source.

[faberryman]

50 miles. 

7 surprising facts about bats

"Bats can travel around 50 miles per night, yet they always manage to get back to their roosting tree (because even bats like to feel at home). Probably all that awesome sonar has something to do with it."

So it would be how far the animal that the bat bit could travel that would be determinative? And he gets more than one day. There is the incubation time and the time he remains contagious. It could have even bit another animal on his way, and so it was kind of like a relay race.

[LesPalenik]

50 miles. 

7 surprising facts about bats

"Bats can travel around 50 miles per night, yet they always manage to get back to their roosting tree (because even bats like to feel at home). Probably all that awesome sonar has something to do with it."

So if their daily limit is 50 miles, do they stay overnight at their destination target?

[JoeKitchen]

So if their daily limit is 50 miles, do they stay overnight at their destination target?

As the article clearly pointed out, they, like us, prefer to come home for dinner. 

Did you miss the "... they always manage to get back to their roosting tree ..." in my quote? 

I mean come on now, you did not even need to open the link, and did not delete it from my quote in your post.  Are you that lazy where you would not read an additional line? 

[faberryman]

As the article clearly pointed out, they, like us, prefer to come home for dinner.

I like to come home for dinner too, but sometimes I get lost along the way. In my earlier days, sometimes I didn't come home until the next morning.

I think you would be better served by shoring up your own theory than picking mine apart. You see the thing is that it is not an either/or situation, so even if you prove my theory if false, it doesn't mean your theory is true. You still have to prove your theory. You could waste a lot of time knocking down other people's theories and you wouldn't end up any closer to your goal.

How's that conspiracy theory research coming?

[LesPalenik]

As the article clearly pointed out, they, like us, prefer to come home for dinner. 

Did you miss the "... they always manage to get back to their roosting tree ..." in my quote? 

I mean come on now, you did not even need to open the link, and did not delete it from my quote in your post.  Are you that lazy where you would not read an additional line?

Yes, I opened the link. Highly interesting animals with amazing capabilities.
50 miles distance quote caused my confusion. Just to clarify, if their range for one day is 50 miles, they would travel only up to 25 miles from their home. Still more than I could muster without any mechanical aid.

[JoeKitchen]

Yes, I opened the link. Highly interesting animals with amazing capabilities.
50 miles distance quote caused my confusion. Just to clarify, if their range for one day is 50 miles, they would travel only up to 25 miles from their home. Still more than I could muster without any mechanical aid.

That's a good question?  I took it as they could fly out 50 miles and then 50 miles back, but perhaps it's 50 miles total. 

[LesPalenik]

Then it is about the same range as GM Volt. According to EPA, GM Volt's range is 53 miles which according to GM should be enough to get most people to work and back.
However, GM Volt can't tell the difference between an apple tree and pine tree.

[JoeKitchen]

Then it is about the same range as GM Volt. According to EPA, GM Volt's range is 53 miles which according to GM should be enough to get most people to work and back.
However, GM Volt can't tell the difference between an apple tree and pine tree.

That was quite the surprise. 

[Alan Klein]

So you want to defend the Chinese Communists as they saber rattle over Taiwan?  It was the Obama/Biden administration that pulled the US Navy from the South China Sea and allowed China to build up their military islands there.  So now Biden, who may have done a corrupt deal with his son that the Chinese can blackmail him over, if he wins, we have to expect him to do the right thing for Taiwan against the Communists?  I'd be nervous, very nervous if I was Taiwanese. 

Beijing said Monday that it will impose sanctions on American companies — including Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Raytheon — that have been involved in selling weapons to Taiwan.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/business/china-taiwan-sanctions-arms-boeing-intl-hnk/index.html

[Alan Klein]

I'll tell you what, when just California can make enough electricity to power their homes, factories and all electric cars in its state with renewables, get back to me. Until then it a pipe dream.

They should clear away the brush between the trees in the forest.  Then they stop forest fires and use the wood to generate electricity solving two problems they have.