US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Goldhammer]

Doesn't your pension increase with inflation?

Most pensions that I am familiar with, including my own, are fixed and do not increase.  Some trade unions may have negotiated for adjustable pensions but those can be terminated by the company through bankruptcy proceedings.  My old company stopped their pension program five years ago so all new employees would not get a pension on retirement, only a 401(k) plan.  I got out at the right time.

[hogloff]

Most pensions that I am familiar with, including my own, are fixed and do not increase.  Some trade unions may have negotiated for adjustable pensions but those can be terminated by the company through bankruptcy proceedings.  My old company stopped their pension program five years ago so all new employees would not get a pension on retirement, only a 401(k) plan.  I got out at the right time.

Canada pension and my wife's teacher's pension both increase with inflation as does Old Age security.

[LesPalenik]

For Canadian residents, CBC has an interesting 10 min. online interview with John Bolton by Adrienne Arsenault.
The video starts with Trump saying that Bolton is maybe not telling the truth and that he is known for not telling the truth.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1758622275621

The video is available also on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB4hewDLiSI

[James Clark]

For our European (and Canadian, and Latin American) friends who are wondering if the current US president is hedging ever close to fascism, be aware that the president has just commuted the prison sentence of a felon who was convicted of lying to cover for said president.

[KLaban]

For our European (and Canadian, and Latin American) friends who are wondering if the current US president is hedging ever close to fascism, be aware that the president has just commuted the prison sentence of a felon who was convicted of lying to cover for said president.

James, I had no doubt.

[Jeremy Roussak]

For our European (and Canadian, and Latin American) friends who are wondering if the current US president is hedging ever close to fascism, be aware that the president has just commuted the prison sentence of a felon who was convicted of lying to cover for said president.

What has that to do with fascism? Left-wing despots have freed, or simply arranged for no prosecution of, those who support them.

Jeremy

[rabanito]

What has that to do with fascism? Left-wing despots have freed, or simply arranged for no prosecution of, those who support them.

Jeremy

Call it what you want. We had some time ago another individual around who also propagated the notion "WE first" (Deutschland über alles), used a ridiculous cap, in this case with an eagle instead of a Baseball one, used a preposterous forelock, black not blonde, bullied everybody around just to show his power, fancied himself infallible and almighty, gave the blame of all problems to the "others", disposed of friend or foe if he was in his way and many other character traits which describe a special personality.
Go figure.

[James Clark]

What has that to do with fascism? Left-wing despots have freed, or simply arranged for no prosecution of, those who support them.

Jeremy

And?  I’d offer the same warning if we were discussing Chavez, at which point I guess you’d complain that “fascist” is more correctly associated with the right, and around and around we’d go. But call it authoritarianism, cronyism, whateversuitsyouism...

[John Camp]

What has that to do with fascism? Left-wing despots have freed, or simply arranged for no prosecution of, those who support them.

Jeremy

James Clark said nothing about left-wingers. He suggested that a President with clear fascist tendencies (if you're unfamiliar with fascist tendencies, you might google them) is edging closer to an outright fascist position, by overturning the rule of law by commuting the sentence of a man who was convicted of several felonies committed in support of that President. Makes perfectly good sense to me.

One thing that many, not, all, American conservatives refuse to see is that us liberals (and I'm very moderately liberal) worry about Trump not because he has a few identifiable conservative-like policies, but because he has many fascist-like tendencies, and fascism and conservatism don't have a lot to do with each other.

Here is an advertisement from a conservative group (the Lincoln Project) concerning Trump. It's on Youtube, and is quite short:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nytBEWbwOkw

[Alan Klein]

For our European (and Canadian, and Latin American) friends who are wondering if the current US president is hedging ever close to fascism, be aware that the president has just commuted the prison sentence of a felon who was convicted of lying to cover for said president.

President Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich a fugitive from American justice for years. Rich gave millions to Clinton and the Democrats to smooth the way.  A lot of people were upset Clinton pardoned him.  But no one called him a fascist.  Presidential pardons are legal.

Clinton pardon of Rich a saga of power, money
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-clinton-pardons-analysis-story.html

[James Clark]

President Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich a fugitive from American justice for years. Rich gave millions to Clinton and the Democrats to smooth the way.  A lot of people were upset Clinton pardoned him.  But no one called him a fascist.  Presidential pardons are legal.

Clinton pardon of Rich a saga of power, money
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-clinton-pardons-analysis-story.html

Did I miss the part of that article where Marc Rich was committing crimes on behalf of Bill Clinton, who then pardoned him?  That's sort of a relevant point, don't you think?

[Alan Klein]

Obama issued more presidential executive orders than Trump.  In fact, except for Bush, Trump has issued less than any other president since the early 1900's.  Of course, that could change if he wins a second term.  All these fascist comments are just politics.  Additionally, when the courts reversed any of Trump's orders, as they do with most presidential orders, he followed the law.  He didn't ignore the courts decisions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order
Grover Cleveland (second term)   140   
William McKinley   185   
Theodore Roosevelt   1,081   
William Howard Taft   724   
Woodrow Wilson   1,803   
Warren G. Harding   522   
Calvin Coolidge   1,203   
Herbert Hoover   968   
Franklin D. Roosevelt (a little over 3 terms)   3,522   
Harry S. Truman   907   
Dwight D. Eisenhower   484   
John F. Kennedy   214   
Lyndon B. Johnson   325   
Richard Nixon   346   
Gerald R. Ford   169   
Jimmy Carter   320   
Ronald Reagan   381   
George H. W. Bush   166   
Bill Clinton[17]   308   
George W. Bush   291   
Barack Obama   276   
Donald Trump (as of May 24, 2020)   159   

[Alan Klein]

Correction to my last post.  Trump even issued less orders than Bush.  The last president who issued less was Grover Cleveland  during his second term that ended in 1897.

[faberryman]

I believe that ignoring the question and instead introducing the subject of executive orders in a discussion of pardons is called a non sequitur.

However, I will concede the point that, compared to previous presidents, Trump really hasn't done that much, for which we should all be grateful.

[Alan Klein]

I believe introducing the subject of executive orders in a discussion of pardons is called a non sequitur.

Most accusations about Trump are hype.  When you start looking at the facts, you find he hasn't done most of what people claim.  I presented a chart of his presidential orders that shows he's less ambitious about getting his way, much less than all other presidents for the last 120 years.  If you want to see who had fascist tendencies, look at Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt's numbers.  Now FDR was a guy who not only tried, but in fact did change America with his socialist fascist tendencies. 

[Jeremy Roussak]

James Clark said nothing about left-wingers. He suggested that a President with clear fascist tendencies (if you're unfamiliar with fascist tendencies, you might google them) is edging closer to an outright fascist position, by overturning the rule of law by commuting the sentence of a man who was convicted of several felonies committed in support of that President. Makes perfectly good sense to me.

I know he didn't. That was rather my point.

The question of his possibly "overturning the rule of law" depends on whether his commutation of the sentence was intra vires. I've not seen any suggestion that he couldn't (a legal or constitutional matter, as opposed to the moral shouldn't) have done what he did.

Jeremy

[faberryman]

Most accusations about Trump are hype.  When you start looking at the facts, you find he hasn't done most of what people claim.  I presented a chart of his presidential orders that shows he's less ambitious about getting his way, much less than all other presidents for the last 120 years.  If you want to see who had fascist tendencies, look at Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt's numbers.  Now FDR was a guy who not only tried, but in fact did change America with his socialist fascist tendencies.

Like I said, I will concede the point that, compared to previous presidents, Trump really hasn't done that much, for which we should all be grateful.

[Chris Kern]

The question of his possibly "overturning the rule of law" depends on whether his commutation of the sentence was intra vires.

There is very little case law on the use of the presidential power to issue pardons and commute sentences, but what there is suggests that it is not in general subject to judicial challenge.  The normal remedy for abuse of that power would be impeachment by Congress.  There may be a few edge-case exceptions: e.g., if a president issued a pardon to himself for a crime committed before or during his term in office.  Trump has asserted that he has "the absolute right to pardon myself," but I am skeptical that a self-issued presidential pardon would serve as an effective defense to a federal criminal charge.

Note that the constitutional pardon power only extends to federal prosecutions; the overwhelming majority of crimes in the United States are prosecuted in the state courts.  A grand jury conducting a criminal investigation in New York has issued a subpoena to an accounting firm that worked on Trump's state taxes for copies of his tax returns.  The nature of the investigation is not publicly known.  (The substance of a grand jury proceeding in the United States is not subject to public disclosure unless and until an indictment is issued.)

[James Clark]

I know he didn't. That was rather my point.

The question of his possibly "overturning the rule of law" depends on whether his commutation of the sentence was intra vires. I've not seen any suggestion that he couldn't (a legal or constitutional matter, as opposed to the moral shouldn't) have done what he did.

Jeremy

No one disputes the general authority of the President to issue pardons or commutations.  Doing so to obstruct justice (or presumably in the furtherance of other criminal acts) would theoretically be illegal, however, and beyond the authority of the President.  (I say theoretically because I'm unaware of it having ever been tested). 

[James Clark]

There is very little case law on the use of the presidential power to issue pardons and commute sentences, but what there is suggests that it is not in general subject to judicial challenge.  The normal remedy for abuse of that power would be impeachment by Congress.  There may be a few edge-case exceptions: e.g., if a president issued a pardon to himself for a crime committed before or during his term in office.  Trump has asserted that he has "the absolute right to pardon myself," but I am skeptical that a self-issued presidential pardon would serve as an effective defense to a federal criminal charge.

To this point, Bill Barr was asked a related question and answered pretty directly that "[it] would be a crime [for a President to] issue a pardon in exchange for the recipient's promise not incriminate him..."