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Author Topic: COVID-19 updates  (Read 83812 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1180 on: March 24, 2020, 07:39:46 pm »

The Administration, all administrations, have to speak with one voice when making policy.  How is the public to know otherwise what the policy is?  Advisor's goals are their goals and not necessarily the country's or the administration.  Their job s are to give advice, just like generals give advice.  After all, generals and advisors are not elected and are not trying to run for re-election.  Trump was and is which makes him more sensitive to the voters.  After all this is a democratic republic run by elected leaders not unelected professors or doctors.   
The problem with your statement is a lot of Governors will not follow his advice if he says go to Church and back to work on Easter.  President Trump is already getting push back from leading Congress people and Governors, many of whom are Republicans.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1181 on: March 24, 2020, 07:43:25 pm »

Fauci is a Federal government employee who works for the Executive Branch of government. He reports to President Trump.  He doesn't have patients.  If he wants patients let him quit his $300,000 a year taxpayer job and go into private practice.
Fauci is 79 years old and is just doing administration these days.  He always had a patient case load when he was younger.  I had a couple of good friends that worked in Fauci's branch.  I honestly don't understand the point you are making.  Fauci is not a political appointee and Trump can either have him continue to come and participate in briefings or thank him and not call him again.
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LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1182 on: March 24, 2020, 08:25:48 pm »

The Covid-19 situation in some places is much worse than officially reported. Several countries, including Russia, Iran and Italy have significantly under reported the infection and death counts.

Quote
Italy has seen more fatalities than any other country, with latest figures showing that 6,820 people have died from the infection in barely a month.
The total number of confirmed cases hit 69,176 on Tuesday, but with Italy testing only people with severe symptoms, the head of the Civil Protection Agency said the true number of infected people was probably 10 times higher.
“A ratio of one certified case out of every 10 is credible,” Angelo Borrelli told La Repubblica newspaper, indicating he believed some 700,000 people could have been infected.

A large team of Cuban doctors arrived recently there to help to fight the virus.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy/italian-coronavirus-deaths-jump-dashing-hopes-that-worst-was-over-idUSKBN21B1CC
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1183 on: March 24, 2020, 08:27:43 pm »

The Administration, all administrations, have to speak with one voice when making policy.  How is the public to know otherwise what the policy is?   

If Trump stuck with the internationally recognized expert's FACTUAL statements, there would be no uncertainty.
On the contrary, Trump keeps spreading falsehoods and has to correct even himself time and time again, which doesn't inspire confidence with sane people.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1184 on: March 24, 2020, 08:32:44 pm »

If Trump stuck with the internationally recognized expert's FACTUAL statements, there would be no uncertainty.
On the contrary, Trump keeps spreading falsehoods and has to correct even himself time and time again, which doesn't inspire confidence with sane people.

60% of American say Trump is doing a great job on this issue.  Thanks for calling them insane.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1185 on: March 24, 2020, 08:34:05 pm »

The problem with your statement is a lot of Governors will not follow his advice if he says go to Church and back to work on Easter.  President Trump is already getting push back from leading Congress people and Governors, many of whom are Republicans.

He said it would be nice if it could happen and he will listen to his experts before deciding.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1186 on: March 24, 2020, 08:35:59 pm »

Trump said that he wants to reopen the economy by Easter. Easter is three weeks away. A lot can happen in three weeks.

Can you provide the complete and direct quote of his entire comments regarding Easter please.
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faberryman

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1187 on: March 24, 2020, 08:42:58 pm »

Can you provide the complete and direct quote of his entire comments regarding Easter please.
Google "fox trump easter" and pick whatever news outlet suits you best.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1188 on: March 24, 2020, 09:09:26 pm »

Google "fox trump easter" and pick whatever news outlet suits you best.

So, you didn’t actually see him at his presser today did you?  So you really have no clue if any of the news outlets are telling you the entire truth? 

I did, watched the whole thing while at the dinner table.

So why don’t you go to the prime source and see if the media lied to you.  It might be informative for you.
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faberryman

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1189 on: March 24, 2020, 09:14:08 pm »

So, you didn’t actually see him at his presser today did you?  So you really have no clue if any of the news outlets are telling you the entire truth? 

I did, watched the whole thing while at the dinner table.

So why don’t you go to the prime source and see if the media lied to you.  It might be informative for you.
He may have said something different at the presser which you saw at dinner. The Easter remarks were made this morning on Fox. He says so many different things it is hard to keep current.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1190 on: March 24, 2020, 09:16:32 pm »

He may have said something different at the presser which you saw at dinner. The Easter remarks were made this morning on Fox. He says so many different things it is hard to keep current.

Saw that today too.  Pretty consistent statement...neither of which you watched, right?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1191 on: March 24, 2020, 09:25:27 pm »

He may have said something different at the presser which you saw at dinner. The Easter remarks were made this morning on Fox. He says so many different things it is hard to keep current.

You know what’s interesting about all of this?  Trump can’t call off in shelter in place order in the US because the Feds have not issued one.  This is State controlled and each State will decide when to lift its shelter in place orders.

All the Fed, via Trump has done is issue it’s 15 day guidelines for battling the virus.  Everything else I’d state decided.
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John Camp

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1192 on: March 24, 2020, 09:32:50 pm »

Can you provide the complete and direct quote of his entire comments regarding Easter please.

“I’d love to have it open by Easter, OK? I would love to have it open by Easter. I will tell you that right now,” Trump said from the White House Rose Garden, where he and members of the administration’s coronavirus task force participated in a virtual town hall on Fox News. “It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’ll make it an important day for this, too,” he added. “I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.”

How's that?

Like several rational people here, I disagree with almost everything Alan has to say about Trump. In fact, I can't offhand think of any exceptions, though there may be some. (Has he ever referred to him as an out-of-control, bloated, narcissistic criminal asshole?) But I do tentatively agree with him that there might be a way to substantially reopen the American economy near-term, as outlined by a Yale doctor both on CNN's Anderson Cooper show and in a NY Times column. He suggests that the overwhelming number of people will survive the virus if they get it, but large numbers of elderly with underlying health conditions and people with suppressed immune systems (recovering cancer victims) might not. He advocates very heavy, widespread testing to determine who is most at risk. The most at risk would be placed in a kind of tranche -- heavily monitored everywhere, all the time. People who are very likely to survive would be allowed to restart their businesses, and, if they get the virus, to self-quarantine. They would also be carefully monitored to make sure they don't get in deep health trouble by being alone. That system would allow a very large segment of society to go back to work, and would, within a relatively short time, create substantial herd immunity created by recovered virus victims. I think this case is arguable -- if you have the testing, and if you create the systems necessary to do this.

The downside is that a lot of people would die. Maybe 1%, and this may be inevitable no matter what we do. If nobody's noticed, if 2/3 of Americans get this, as they might if we simply allowed people back to work, that would be something north of 2 million deaths in the US. 1 percent doesn't seem like a high percentage, but in fact, it's a big pile of bodies. By comparison, 418,000 American soldiers and civilians were killed in WWII, 58000 in Vietnam. We are looking at a shit sandwich.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1193 on: March 24, 2020, 09:38:34 pm »

TDS in the media is reaching an all time high today. 

First the NYTs correctly stated that the Dems destroyed the bill that was suppose to pass on Monday.  Schumer said it was a good bill Saturday, and then Pelosi decided to load it up with useless stuff.  The NYTs shortly after releasing the first story changed the headline to imply that the Dems still delayed the bill but due helping workers.  Then they changed it again to imply republicans were at fault.  What a cluster f#@&! 

Also, it has gotten pretty obvious the media is trying to portray that there is a growing rift between Fauci and Trump so much so that Fauci had to admonish the press over this during a presser today. 

And my favorite, and something Peter tried to play up today, was blaming Trump for two jack asses deciding to drink fish tank cleaner, which clearly stated not for human consumption, just because it had a chemical that was similar in spelling as chloroquine.  Sorry, but if you die because you drink a poison not meant for consumption, that's on you. 

Last, the idea that it is sacrosanct to not talk about how we restart the economy is what really got me, especially considering even Fauci is saying we need to start thinking about this as well.  Literally today, Fauci discussed that letting the economy remain shut down would do more harm then good, even for those who are sick with this. 

LOL, and the media keeps on wondering why trust in them has greatly decreased. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 10:14:00 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1194 on: March 24, 2020, 09:46:26 pm »

“I’d love to have it open by Easter, OK? I would love to have it open by Easter. I will tell you that right now,” Trump said from the White House Rose Garden, where he and members of the administration’s coronavirus task force participated in a virtual town hall on Fox News. “It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’ll make it an important day for this, too,” he added. “I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.”

How's that?

Like several rational people here, I disagree with almost everything Alan has to say about Trump. In fact, I can't offhand think of any exceptions, though there may be some. (Has he ever referred to him as an out-of-control, bloated, narcissistic criminal asshole?) But I do tentatively agree with him that there might be a way to substantially reopen the American economy near-term, as outlined by a Yale doctor both on CNN's Anderson Cooper show and in a NY Times column. He suggests that the overwhelming number of people will survive the virus if they get it, but large numbers of elderly with underlying health conditions and people with suppressed immune systems (recovering cancer victims) might not. He advocates very heavy, widespread testing to determine who is most at risk. The most at risk would be placed in a kind of tranche -- heavily monitored everywhere, all the time. People who are very likely to survive would be allowed to restart their businesses, and, if they get the virus, to self-quarantine. They would also be carefully monitored to make sure they don't get in deep health trouble by being alone. That system would allow a very large segment of society to go back to work, and would, within a relatively short time, create substantial herd immunity created by recovered virus victims. I think this case is arguable -- if you have the testing, and if you create the systems necessary to do this.

The downside is that a lot of people would die. Maybe 1%, and this may be inevitable no matter what we do. If nobody's noticed, if 2/3 of Americans get this, as they might if we simply allowed people back to work, that would be something north of 2 million deaths in the US. 1 percent doesn't seem like a high percentage, but in fact, it's a big pile of bodies. By comparison, 418,000 American soldiers and civilians were killed in WWII, 58000 in Vietnam. We are looking at a shit sandwich.

Out-of-control?  I cant think of anything he has done with this that is out of control.  He has not nationalized industry, which several Dems have been calling for.  He has not floated the idea of delaying primaries or the election, whichh several Dem governors have done already.  He has not used war powers to get rid of constitutional rights.  He has not even tried to load up the relief bill with republican wish-list item, which the Dems are doing right now. 

Criminal?  What crimes has he broken?  Not even during the impeachment was he charged with any crimes. 

Bloated?  Maybe.  His diet would certainly lead to him being gassy.  I wouldn't want to be stuck sitting next to him on a long plane trip. 

I get it though; we are in a Catch-22 and the media is impressioning us with both sides of the coin, another malfeasance on their part.  It is not either we go full steam ahead and let everyone get this thing while watching several people die, nor is it shut down the world for 9 months and watching everyone loose everthing with several people killing themselves, or overdosing, or being beaten to death by their abusive spouses, etc. 

It is somewhere in between.  We need to start weighing the cost of opening up the economy in controlled measures so the world does not collapse while determining ways to keep the most vulnerable from dying.  This does assume there will be an actuarial trade off, but it is something that needs to be discussed and decided upon. 

Having the world remain on lock down until a vaccine is created is not practical. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 10:08:43 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1195 on: March 24, 2020, 09:51:02 pm »

“I’d love to have it open by Easter, OK? I would love to have it open by Easter. I will tell you that right now,” Trump said from the White House Rose Garden, where he and members of the administration’s coronavirus task force participated in a virtual town hall on Fox News. “It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’ll make it an important day for this, too,” he added. “I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.”

How's that?

Like several rational people here, I disagree with almost everything Alan has to say about Trump. In fact, I can't offhand think of any exceptions, though there may be some. (Has he ever referred to him as an out-of-control, bloated, narcissistic criminal asshole?) But I do tentatively agree with him that there might be a way to substantially reopen the American economy near-term, as outlined by a Yale doctor both on CNN's Anderson Cooper show and in a NY Times column. He suggests that the overwhelming number of people will survive the virus if they get it, but large numbers of elderly with underlying health conditions and people with suppressed immune systems (recovering cancer victims) might not. He advocates very heavy, widespread testing to determine who is most at risk. The most at risk would be placed in a kind of tranche -- heavily monitored everywhere, all the time. People who are very likely to survive would be allowed to restart their businesses, and, if they get the virus, to self-quarantine. They would also be carefully monitored to make sure they don't get in deep health trouble by being alone. That system would allow a very large segment of society to go back to work, and would, within a relatively short time, create substantial herd immunity created by recovered virus victims. I think this case is arguable -- if you have the testing, and if you create the systems necessary to do this.

The downside is that a lot of people would die. Maybe 1%, and this may be inevitable no matter what we do. If nobody's noticed, if 2/3 of Americans get this, as they might if we simply allowed people back to work, that would be something north of 2 million deaths in the US. 1 percent doesn't seem like a high percentage, but in fact, it's a big pile of bodies. By comparison, 418,000 American soldiers and civilians were killed in WWII, 58000 in Vietnam. We are looking at a shit sandwich.

So is that his entire statement with all the modifiers?  So no it’s not good enough for me. The problem with reading press reports of Trumps comments is they are rarely complete.  As everyone knows he rambles and you need the full context to get where he wants to go.  Would he LIKE to see it open again by Easter.  Do he agree that might be too soon and he might need to see it go longer if his experts tell him no?  Yep.  If you read past the titillating headlines and the first 3 or 4 paragraphs of ant given news story sometimes they will give you the actual details clear at the end of the article.  Not always of course but it’s the reason I prefer to actually see what he said in context.  Now sometimes they get it right other time they lie their asses off.

I don’t agree that Easter is the right time .  I’m of the opinion it needs to be a bit longer, just for safety’s sake. Would another week or two mortally wound the economy?  I don’t think so.    I’m in a position wher I can stay isolated for some time if needed and I just might if things don’t look good.  I’m lucky enough to be able to weather this storm financially ... not sure about mentally just yet😎.  But the thought of a million dead, possibly including me, my wife and my parents is a bit too much to fathom.

In any case my state is down for two weeks starting today.  Tim e will tell when it really ends.

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Craig Lamson

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1196 on: March 24, 2020, 09:56:33 pm »



And my favorite, and something Peter tried to play up today, was blaming Trump for two jack asses deciding to drink fish tank cleaner, which clearly stated not for human consumption, just because it had a chemical that was similar in spelling as chloroquine.  Sorry, but if you die because you drink something not meant for consumption, that's on you. 


I saw a CNN report on this and the anchor actually said the couple died using the same drug Trump was touting.  It was a bald faced lie, amazing stuff.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1197 on: March 24, 2020, 10:03:39 pm »

I have nothing to offer to you here, you are so far from reality on this subject that there is no bridge I can build for you. If you think you can just get some nurses, get them through a Power Point presentation about vents, just get some vents in people's homes and hook them to oxygen (I wonder from where), and you are solving the crisis you are really clueless. It's nothing wrong with that per se, there are many things we don't know shit about. The problem is that you don't realize you can't know it all and it's ok to not have an opinion and a solution for everything.

And for the record this forum is not the place to come with ideas to change how the crisis is managed in US. What we talk here is worthless for the real world.
Not true. I got it from a good source that Trump secretly reads this forum and gets his ideas from it.  :)

What's wrong with speculating about things.  We all have our opinions about Nikon vs. Canon, film vs digital, etc.    I just heard that England asked retired nurses and doctors to come out of retirement.  Thousands did just that.  Maybe that's what we should do here if you think home nurses are capable.  There's a lot of opening and room for people to help.  I saw something on TV where a group of people came up with  a ventilator for $150. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1198 on: March 24, 2020, 10:06:52 pm »

Not true. I got it from a good source that Trump secretly reads this forum and gets his ideas from it.  :)

What's wrong with speculating about things.  We all have our opinions about Nikon vs. Canon, film vs digital, etc.    I just heard that England asked retired nurses and doctors to come out of retirement.  Thousands did just that.  Maybe that's what we should do here if you think home nurses are capable.  There's a lot of opening and room for people to help.  I saw something on TV where a group of people came up with  a ventilator for $150.

Just think, maybe forums like this could inspire all those with 3-d printers to make ventilator valves and filters. 

Oh wait, that actually happened.  The beauties of the free market and the Interwebs connecting people. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1199 on: March 24, 2020, 10:16:09 pm »

“I’d love to have it open by Easter, OK? I would love to have it open by Easter. I will tell you that right now,” Trump said from the White House Rose Garden, where he and members of the administration’s coronavirus task force participated in a virtual town hall on Fox News. “It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’ll make it an important day for this, too,” he added. “I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.”

How's that?

Like several rational people here, I disagree with almost everything Alan has to say about Trump. In fact, I can't offhand think of any exceptions, though there may be some. (Has he ever referred to him as an out-of-control, bloated, narcissistic criminal asshole?) But I do tentatively agree with him that there might be a way to substantially reopen the American economy near-term, as outlined by a Yale doctor both on CNN's Anderson Cooper show and in a NY Times column. He suggests that the overwhelming number of people will survive the virus if they get it, but large numbers of elderly with underlying health conditions and people with suppressed immune systems (recovering cancer victims) might not. He advocates very heavy, widespread testing to determine who is most at risk. The most at risk would be placed in a kind of tranche -- heavily monitored everywhere, all the time. People who are very likely to survive would be allowed to restart their businesses, and, if they get the virus, to self-quarantine. They would also be carefully monitored to make sure they don't get in deep health trouble by being alone. That system would allow a very large segment of society to go back to work, and would, within a relatively short time, create substantial herd immunity created by recovered virus victims. I think this case is arguable -- if you have the testing, and if you create the systems necessary to do this.

The downside is that a lot of people would die. Maybe 1%, and this may be inevitable no matter what we do. If nobody's noticed, if 2/3 of Americans get this, as they might if we simply allowed people back to work, that would be something north of 2 million deaths in the US. 1 percent doesn't seem like a high percentage, but in fact, it's a big pile of bodies. By comparison, 418,000 American soldiers and civilians were killed in WWII, 58000 in Vietnam. We are looking at a shit sandwich.
I watched today's press conference.  Sure trump suggested eester.  But that was a president trying to be positive, to give people hope about the future.  A target they can look towards.  That's something we expect from president and would commend Obama if he said it under these conditions.  But Trump also said that he and the experts would monitor the situation and act accordingly.  They're not going to go ahead just to do it if the situation is not favorable to do it.  Even Fauci confirmed this approach.  The biased news on the left is being cherry picked.
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